The BEST work-out!!!

[proteus]

This "functional strength" thing has been a joke around most weightlifting circles. In the real world, if you have a heavy ass deadlift/squat/bench/row your "functional strength" is going to be pretty damn high. People that argue this are not very strong in the first place, obviously they also don't have any real "functional strength".

Don't know where all these people got the idea from that strong=heavy/slow/non-athletic. Probably just spread by all the weak people to grow their e-penor. Sure I can see if you have overly bulky muscle mass or something like a bodybuilder. That guy who just deadlifted 772 at 170lbs bodyweight to break Ed Coan's record is an amazing sprinter--look him up. I'm pretty damn sure he could lift a heavier rock than you functional boys wouldn't you think? How about beat him in a sprint?

I really wish we could smash this stupid functional strength thing right now... just silly and makes the board look bad to strong people. I don't post here much anymore because all the "know it all about everything" people made it difficult to find the good stuff!

i am telling you i was deadlifting 4 plates for sets every week with zero issues and the first time i tried sprinting i tore my hamstring. 

if you want to repeat other people's mistakes go right ahead.

[Neone]

Nah B.Money, that dude just has a lot of 'functional strength'.

I think its referring to guys who only work aesthetic muscles and don't ever work on the smaller muscles that contribute to 'real world' applications.


And proteus you tore your leg because you had tight hamstrings from working them so much.

[pioneer]

i am telling you i was deadlifting 4 plates for sets every week with zero issues and the first time i tried sprinting i tore my hamstring. 

if you want to repeat other people's mistakes go right ahead.

So what? The first time you try anything you can fuck yourself up. If you were sprinting everyday but the first time you tried deadlifts you tore your hamstring, would you still trash deadlifts?

[B.Money]

The guy I mentioned, Tom, doesn't seem to have a problem. In fact he originally started deadlifting to improve his sprinting. Hamstring issues are very common among sprinters, I wouldn't say deadlifting+sprints=hamstring injury though, thats a long shot. Have you seen Magnusson's 1015lb world record raw deadlift? If you look at one of his recent interviews you may be shocked at what he does to work his speed, sprints!

In your example of the V8 S2000 I think things are a little different with the human body, unless I misunderstood. Although there are plenty of V8 swapped miatas that hold their own on the track as well as aluminum block v8's swapped into rx7's with good success and surprisingly little weight balance disturbance(like 15lbs). There is a point where the extra power benefits over the extra weight, and with the human body you can train in such a way to increase strength and power without adding much unnecessary weight. Such as adding a supercharger or turbo to the S2000--wouldn't upset the weight balance much, and you would surely be getting faster lap times with the extra power in the straights. Even say, comparing the GTR which is a huge beast of a car weighing what, almost 4000lbs, compared to an S2000, weighing 2800lbs, the GTR will still be able to get an advantage due to the extra power (and grip, etc of course) even if it does weigh more.

In comparison a pro bodybuilder might as well be a dump truck with all the extra weight, and muscles trained in a way to be less efficient (at the things we are talking about). I'm talking about staying light, while gaining explosive strength. Can't be anything negative about that?

[proteus]

I'm talking about staying light, while gaining explosive strength. Can't be anything negative about that?

this explosive strength will almost certainly come at the price of aerobic endurance in an event like marathon.

i am shooting for balance myself.  i just did some power cleans today but i was swimming yesterday and putting on miles on my bike the day before.

when i do cleans its very snappy, pure momentum - in fact its too fast for my own mind to even notice me do it - its done on reflex.  but when i ride the bike it is a smooth continuous motion absolutely even and easy just burning calories.

if you lock yourself into a single type of training you develop weaknesses elsewhere no matter how you slice it.

[B.Money]

Very true. Impossible to be the best at everything. Good point.

edit: 
 

[HIT_it_RAW]

@ SkinnyDevil

Oh, no offense taken, man. I was being somewhat tongue in cheek. Your work-outs are BEAST. Would kill me to even attempt that kinda weight.

Good point regarding peak performance of the muscle(s) under stress. I actually need to employ a bit of that. I dropped heavy weights a coupla years ago after a few injuries. Most of that is cleared up, so....

Moving over to the right thread...
It is my strong opinion that heavy weight training is the best thing to help prevent injury. Proper form is the key here. I do all my exercises 4sec pos 2 sec static hold 4 sec neg. Heavy exercise will not only strenghten the muscles but also the tendons, ligaments and bones! My wrist increased 2 inches, almost all of that being bone and tendons getting larger and therefore stronger.

I've been working out 5 years now and have never injured myself(not during my workouts at least). I remember reading that you do your calfs and squats rather explosive. I think you're far more likely to suffer injury from those kind of explosive movements than from proper heavy exercise done in perfect form.

A friend of my had been suffering from knee injury for years, I helped him recover completely in just 2 monts using heavy leg exercises (leg extension, leg curl, full squat). He also gaines 15lbs of muscle as a bonus

[proteus]

I've been working out 5 years now and have never injured myself(not during my workouts at least).

that's the point - if you train in the gym you will get hurt outside of it - because slow controlled movements will not prepare you for a real life test.

[HIT_it_RAW]

that's the point - if you train in the gym you will get hurt outside of it - because slow controlled movements will not prepare you for a real life test.

Since starting weight training I've never hurt myself. Before I did  afew times. I have hyperflexible joints which used to bother me somewhat. I decided to start weight training to help make my joints more rigid. Did just that. I am stil very flexible but no longer have any problems.

The key in preventing injury of any kind is increasing the structural strenght of all tissues in the body. There is no difference in strenght increases stimulated by slow controlled exercise or by explosive movements of any kind. Explosive and sudden movements create very high impact forces (f=m*a) and therefore are likely to cause injury.

Off course real life events will sometimes demand explosive movements such as fighting, jumping, sprinting enz. I do all of those things and got a whole lot better at them since starting weight training only without the injurys I had before.

A common misconception is that it explosive training results in explosive strength and slow training makes you slow. This is not true there is only one type op strength since muscular fiber can only work in one way. Muscular fibers work on the all or nothing principle either they contract “full on” or they don’t, on or of and nothing in between. The difference in force output is determent only by the amount of fiber used at once and the size of those fibers. Weight training enables you to use more fibers at once by improving the neurological pathways and also stimulate increased fiber size. Explosive training stimulates the same things although never troughout a full rance of possible movement and with added risk off injury.

The explosiveness of a body part is determent by 2 factors: 1 strength of the muscles involved, 2 mass of the body part. So build strength, lose fat.

The best way to prepare your body for any type of activity (fast, explosive, heavy, intense enz) is weight training. No risk of injury(if proper form is used) and maximal tissue(muscle, bones, tendons, ligaments, connective tissue) strength.

[HIT_it_RAW]

i think your workout is crap

no amount of intensity can substitute for volume.

is it a coincidence that both Lance Armstrong and Michael Phelps exercise 5 hours a day ?

Again try doing it. If you truly hit momentary muscular failure at all 8 exercises between 8-15 reps and do the workout in less than 30 min your heart-rate will be >160. If you think that will not increase cardiovascular ability...

Both lance and phelps also do intense short weightlifting to build strenght/condition. To be the best in your sport you must also learn your body the "skills" required for that particular sport. If long distance cycling is your sport than you must cycle long distances t learn you body that skill. Prestation in any activity is a combination of skill and strenght. skill can only be increased in doing practising that skill. Strenght should be increased the most effecient way and very intense, very heavy short workouts happen to be the best way to do that.

I also do cycling, ving tsun(fight sport), parkour (in the forrests), swimming. Those activities obviously require skill but no amound of swimming could have improved my swimming speed as much ass weight training has.

[proteus]

let's agree to disagree.  you don't seem like somebody who is capable of changing his mind.

[HIT_it_RAW]

let's agree to disagree.  you don't seem like somebody who is capable of changing his mind.

I'm always up for intelligent discussion and will change my mind when presented with clear evidence. But I agree.

[B.Money]

that's the point - if you train in the gym you will get hurt outside of it - because slow controlled movements will not prepare you for a real life test.

I train controlled but explosively. Although rare, I have also gotten injuries from lifting too. No risk=no reward to some degree, and this all depends on your goals. I wouldn't train an every day Joe who wants to just improve his quality of life through exercise the same way as a competitive lifter.

I never get injured outside the gym though, if that counts for anything.

[proteus]

I train controlled but explosively. Although rare, I have also gotten injuries from lifting too. No risk=no reward to some degree, and this all depends on your goals. I wouldn't train an every day Joe who wants to just improve his quality of life through exercise the same way as a competitive lifter.

I never get injured outside the gym though, if that counts for anything.

IMO competitive sport is childish unless ur gettin paid

[B.Money]

IMO competitive sport is childish unless ur gettin paid

ok

[HIT_it_RAW]

I train controlled but explosively. Although rare, I have also gotten injuries from lifting too. No risk=no reward to some degree, and this all depends on your goals. I wouldn't train an every day Joe who wants to just improve his quality of life through exercise the same way as a competitive lifter.

I never get injured outside the gym though, if that counts for anything.

how do you "control" the high level impact forces upon your tendons etc?
IMO you either train controlled or you train explosive. If competitive lifting is your thing than you have to train explosive to teach your body the skill required to perform those movements. However you should also train controlled to muscular failure to stimulate strength increases the safest way possible. Stregth increases that help to prevent injury when performing those explosive lifts.

Doing explosive movements will not generate some sort of different tissue strength to prevent injury. If your not lifting competitive there is no reward in doing any type of explosive exercise but there sure as hell is a risk in doing them.

[Neone]

IMO competitive sport is childish unless ur gettin paid

haha holy shit Proteus, have you been taking posting tips from Achilezies?
Gold star for that gem... haha.

You know you can do anything competitively?  from darts to fighting to lawn bowls to hockey?
It sounds like an excuse as to why you dont try as hard as you can.. Just keep telling yourself its 'childish'
Taking shit too seriously at the cost of your lifes happiness isnt good; but working hard to keep yourself stronger/more skilled than the other people around you is a good motivator of good health.

Probably why the people here who care about 'childish competition' are trying to eat well and take care of themselves, while you on the other hand drink some mutant cocktail of processed powders as food, even though you know its 'wrong'. haha.

[B.Money]

how do you "control" the high level impact forces upon your tendons etc?
IMO you either train controlled or you train explosive. If competitive lifting is your thing than you have to train explosive to teach your body the skill required to perform those movements. However you should also train controlled to muscular failure to stimulate strength increases the safest way possible. Stregth increases that help to prevent injury when performing those explosive lifts.

Doing explosive movements will not generate some sort of different tissue strength to prevent injury. If your not lifting competitive there is no reward in doing any type of explosive exercise but there sure as hell is a risk in doing them.

I think we may be talking about two different. In my mind, uncontrolled lifting would just mean sloppy. Uneven bar movement, loss of control over where the bar is placed in the power curve often called "going out of the groove". When I refer to explosive barbell movements, I think mostly of explosive eccentric. Although olympic lifters often have a fast but controlled concentric too, but not as common. Usually when in the gym its recommended to have a fast as possible eccentric to your movements, and with practice you can do this with complete control. The idea along with low rep training trains the stronger fast twitch muscle fibers.

Just to add real quick, that is an interesting theory you bring up about no reward and only risk, I guess it depends on the lifter though. If you can truly go into a gym with absolutely no competitive attitude and very little drive to achieve results, maybe slow and controlled movements can get you somewhere. In the real world, you are training with your buddy, and you wanna beat his lifts. You don't want to be lifting the same ol' weights year in and year out, because you will get no progress. I see it happen all the time in the gym, same guys lifting the same weights with the same bodies for years and years.

Perhaps you may be correct though, I'm sure someone out there has gotten big and strong doing like, 8 second eccentrics, but going to be rare, and it probably took a whole lot longer.

[HIT_it_RAW]

Actually I think we are talking about the same thing. A controlled exercise is one that is performed in perfect form taking 4 sec positive(concentric), 2 sec static, 4 sec neg(eccentric). When sloppy form is used the weight isn’t being lifted with a constant speed of motion. The changing of speed throughout the motion creates very high forces(f=m.a), and thus increase the risk of injury. Using a fast eccentric movement is especially dangerous because you’re literally dropping the weight and catching it at the bottom.
You are right, different muscular fibers do require different training regimens. Fast twitch react best to low rep sets(4-7reps), slow twitch to high reps sets (12-20). However every person has a mix of fast and slow twitch fibers. If you are blessed with a higher than usual percentage fast twitch fiber in your biceps muscle than that muscle will be able generate much more force. It would however tire very quickly. How much force you can actually use from this muscle is determent by the leverage of the elbow. With the same muscular strength you can curl more with short forearms than with lang.
Competitive weightlifters are almost always blessed with very high percentage of fast twitch fibers in most of their muscles and have good leverage. They respond very well to very low rep max out lifts. Most people have far less fast twitch fiber and should use higher reps, or ignore a very large part of their muscle, the slow twitch fibers, and have poor results.
I’m actually very competitive and train like it. Let me describe a good set(medium fast twitch  muscle) rep 1-2 Very light could throw the weight but move it slowly 3-4 harder could move fairly fast but move slow 5-7 hard can only move the weight slow 8 all out effort very slow 9 all out effort very slow hit failure but keep giving everything you have to hold the weight. 10 buddy helps just enough to lift the weight. Hold at full contraction until you can no longer hold it then lower as slow as you can constantly trying to reverse its direction. The last few reps are slow and controlled but only because the muscle is weakened by the previous reps. Initiating maximum muscular force feels VERY explosive you give it all but the resulting movements is not.
I have trained with a few people and all of them grew rapidly and got strong very fast when training as described above. However most quit because they could not take working that hard, hitting true momentary muscular failure(few can). As you grow bigger and stronger you must feed a bigger muscle mass using more energy making it even harder.
Unfortunately I’m always much stronger than my training partners making it harder to motivate. I am however very intrigued by those very heavy deadlifts described here. I can do 6x 245 lbs witch seem low but these are done after 7 exercises to failure without any rest between sets so I can probably do a bit more fresh. Also I know I can hit more if I use less perfect form. Gonna move this exercise a bit forward in my work out and do a few max out reps every workout for a few weeks see what happens to the poundage. Will not sacrifice good form!

[B.Money]

haha sweet deal man! Go at it!

[HIT_it_RAW]

forgot to mention those figures were stiff legged deadlifts. Regular deadlifts will be heavier. will do regjulars for now.

[proteus]

forgot to mention those figures were stiff legged deadlifts. Regular deadlifts will be heavier. will do regjulars for now.

if ur good at deads start doing cleans

when good at that start snatches

[HIT_it_RAW]

if ur good at deads start doing cleans

when good at that start snatches

I have little interest in doing olympic style lifting. Will focus on deadlifts, squats, standing presses.

[HIT_it_RAW]

Worked out today
moved deadlift
previous workouts:  squat, leg press, calf raises, machine pullover, machine dips, pulldowns, standing press, deadlift.
This workout:         squat, leg press, calf raises, machine pullover, machine dips, deadlift, biceps, standing press

Deadlifted 2 x 375 lbs
Will start with 400-420lbs next time. Can't wait. Have a lot of fast twitch fibers is most muscular structures so this very brief very hard exercise should do something..

Not to happy with the order of exercises though I had the perfect order to hit every excercise very hard without rest in btween.
But my deadlift performance suffered from this order, because my system as a whole was already very much drained when starting the deadlifts.
Have to give this some serious thoughts....

[pioneer]

Worked out today
moved deadlift
previous workouts:  squat, leg press, calf raises, machine pullover, machine dips, pulldowns, standing press, deadlift.
This workout:         squat, leg press, calf raises, machine pullover, machine dips, deadlift, biceps, standing press

Deadlifted 2 x 375 lbs
Will start with 400-420lbs next time. Can't wait. Have a lot of fast twitch fibers is most muscular structures so this very brief very hard exercise should do something..

Not to happy with the order of exercises though I had the perfect order to hit every excercise very hard without rest in btween.
But my deadlift performance suffered from this order, because my system as a whole was already very much drained when starting the deadlifts.
Have to give this some serious thoughts....

I really like your workout style and I am following similar program. I am now doing sets of 2 so that I can just have 2 really heavy sets and it is really helping me put on strength and size. Nobody ever said we had to stick to 3 or 4 sets of the same exercise and I sometimes think it is counter intuitive because you exhaust yourself on one exercise and dont have energy for the others. My philosophy is lift very heavy for 1 or 2 sets and move on to the next exercise.