Glycogen in muscles/short bursts of energy on zero carb

[Josh]

Is glycogen stored in skeletal muscles on a zero carb diet?

I'm thinking about the potential to produce short bursts of energy.

According to 'body by science' FWIW this can be accomplished by glycogen in skeletal muscles instantly converting to glucose for energy.

Some zero carbers report diminished ability to sprint etc.

Thoughts?

I am finding carbs get on my nerves and enjoying zero. However, short bursts important to martial arts etc. which I do.

[Ioanna]

i've not had any problems with my energy in any way, including sprints.  my endurance comes and goes depending on how much i've been training, just like in college days.

i am not a world-class athlete by any means, but i did qualify for olympic trials for a few consecutive years, so i know what i'm capable of and i'd notice if i couldn't sprint. 

[pioneer]

Yes, I am zero carb as well, sometimes maybe eating fruit a few times per week at most, many weeks I dont consume any carbs. I have found that as long as I eat enough, I will not have diminished energy, and even if I dont eat enough, as long as I sleep enough I will be fine. Sprints are faster than ever with me. Glycogen can be stored via gluconeogenesis, why doesnt anybody know this. 57% of the amino acids you eat have the ability to convert to glucose and be stored as glycogen. The body doesnt let you control it. The body does not play games. If you are ketogenic (zero or low carb) and if your workout regimen requires your body to have more glycogen, your body will either make it from the protein you supply it with through eating, or the protein from your own muscles by breaking your muscles down and converting it to glucose. It is imperative that enough protein is eaten if you are zero carb as the amount of protein you may think you are getting, you really are not.

[achillezzz]

if you are an athlete eat your carbs along with proteins and fats you need it.
However if you have health problems then its a problem because you cant go that dip into athletics to a level where you need some carbs.

soaked oatmeal is good choice with raw honey if you can mix it with raw milk its even better!!

Imagine soaked oats with honey blueberies raw milk and raw cheese for breakfast

for launch you can eat avocados and eggs maybe some cooked chiken

for dinner meattt and fat

this is a diet that will work great for professional athlets who need carbs and maintain good health that I promise!!

[Neone]

Sounds great Achileziz!  Ill get right on that Grains, Dairy and Sugar breakfast! That sounds like an absolutely fantastic way to start the mornings!
but wait!
Some cooked chicken for lunch? FANTASTIC! mabye all those stomach cramps will be making me pump my legs faster during sprints!

How many weeks do i have to eat desert for breakfast before i start to notice my althaleticism gaining in leaps and bounds?!

[Josh]

Whether or not carbs are good on paper...zero carb is working out for me at the moment, so that's all I can go on.

Thanks Pioneer. Do you have a link about muscle glycogen and gluconeogenesis by any chance? I am aware of this process, but thought it was only used occasionally by the body.

Ioanna interesting to hear about your athletics. I'll stick with it for now and see what happens.

[jessica]

soaked oatmeal is good choice with raw honey if you can mix it with raw milk its even better!!

Imagine soaked oats with honey blueberies raw milk and raw cheese for breakfast

for launch you can eat avocados and eggs maybe some cooked chiken

for dinner meattt and fat

this combination would make me totally unable to do anything after breakfast...honestly i think a lot of us stray away from these foods and combinations because they do not work for our bodies or lives...each person is an individual and i think the focus is not on finding a universal diet, feeling our health and listening to our bodies and finding what works best for each individual.  rpd's seem to get lost in a lot of science and dont take into account their own bodies signals...which is hard if your health has been damaged by poor diet/habit in the past but something that is worth patiences and cultivation so that each time you eat you do not have to consult a manual

[achillezzz]

Sounds great Achileziz!  Ill get right on that Grains, Dairy and Sugar breakfast! That sounds like an absolutely fantastic way to start the mornings!
but wait!
Some cooked chicken for lunch? FANTASTIC! mabye all those stomach cramps will be making me pump my legs faster during sprints!

How many weeks do i have to eat desert for breakfast before i start to notice my althaleticism gaining in leaps and bounds?!

LOL

Man real soaked oats are good... raw honey is not sugar it improves digestion and raw milk is a miracle for some..

[proteus]

try eating carbs only before and after workout - that's what i would do if i was more disciplined about my diet.

if your glycogen stores are already full any additional carbs are just going to go into getting fat and diabetic, but if your glycogen stores are empty you are catabolizing muscle, ESPECIALLY if they are empty while you are exercising.

so i say load up with glycogen before a workout, and then replenish it after a workout.  stay low carb the rest of the time - especially before bed.

[proteus]

raw honey is not sugar

honey may have similar macronutrient profile as sugar but it isn't some chemically bathed bleached industrial chemical.  if the taste of honey isn't going to interfere with the recipe i would definitely go with honey over sugar.

i use four things for sweetening right now:

1 - honey
2 - dates
3 - raisins
4 - agave nectar

of course you have to blend dates and raisins - they're not just going to dissolve on their own

[achillezzz]

stay low carb the rest of the time - especially before bed.

Carbs before bed can help you with serotonin production and improve your sleep!!

But we are all different go figure 

[miles]

Carbs before bed can help you with serotonin production and improve your sleep!!

Also you must eat a big meal before you start your day or you can not function, animal fats are bad, whole grains and vegetable oils are heart healthy, you should take medication for any ailment, sanitising everything with Detol will make your children healthy, cooking all your meat thoroughly is important to prevent you dying, chicken is healthier than sheep, you must be digesting food constantly or you will have no energy and waste away, fluoride in water is good for your teeth, etc..

[pioneer]

Carbs before bed can help you with serotonin production and improve your sleep!!

But we are all different go figure 

The reason why it increases seretonin temporarily is because it is a quick stimulant that makes you feel good. Same as nicotine or cocaine as well, but that does not mean nicotine or cocaine would help you sleep now would it?

[Josh]

Well carbs can make you feel fine if you eat a carb based diet to be honest, but you have to decide if you want/believe in the long term health problems from eating a lot.

And if you're raw paleo, do carbs work out for digestion etc.

[achillezzz]

Also you must eat a big meal before you start your day or you can not function, animal fats are bad, whole grains and vegetable oils are heart healthy, you should take medication for any ailment, sanitising everything with Detol will make your children healthy, cooking all your meat thoroughly is important to prevent you dying, chicken is healthier than sheep, you must be digesting food constantly or you will have no energy and waste away, fluoride in water is good for your teeth, etc..

I never claimed that kind of bullshit..
I said a fruit before bed can make you feel good...

In my case its an egg yolk and a banana.

[pioneer]

Well carbs can make you feel fine if you eat a carb based diet to be honest, but you have to decide if you want/believe in the long term health problems from eating a lot.

And if you're raw paleo, do carbs work out for digestion etc.

Sorry but for the most part, you are wrong. Many people like me are basically carbohydrate intolerant. Saying that "we" can feel fine on a carb based diet is a blanket statement. A great way to easily disprove this is looking at the American diet for the past 30 years. As the carbohydrate % keeps raising, Americans keep getting sicker and sicker. Most people I talk to about their diets know that carbs make them very sleepy after consumption, and often very bloated, but of course if varies with grains, fruit, and vegetables. Most of the diseases of now manifest from an over consumption of carbohydrates. Diabetes, obesity, low testosterone, earlier andropause and menopause, irritable bowel, inflammation, even cancer. Granted, there are carbs that are ok to eat in quantity for SOME like fruit, and there are bad carbs to eat like grains for all.

Whether you are raw paleo or not, it does not make a difference in whether you will digest certain food better or worse. All we can digest well is what our human physiology permits by our ancestry and human evolution/epigenetics. Eating a raw paleo diet will not help us digest grains better. Going even further than that, for many, giving up eating many carbs can be very beneficial for those with yeasts and parasitical manifestations in their bodies. With nothing to feed off of, they cant survive.

[Josh]

I said it 'can' make you feel fine. So not a blanket statement, as 'can' means it is possible.

I also mentioned long term health problems. They may come sooner as in your case or later.

I was prescribed to eat 1/4 protein, 1/4 veggies and 1/2 starchy carbs on each plate by a nutritionist, and while eating that I've never felt better. So no, I'm not wrong that it 'can' make you feel great.

I don't do it because I don't believe it will be good in the long run.

[cliff]

The carbophopia some of you have is pretty hilarious.  

@pioneer- What are the symptoms of carb intolerance and have you ever contemplated it's you and not the carbs that is the problem?

Every hunter gatherer society has always eaten carbs, even the inuit (which are an extreme example) ate some carbs.  For the people who think carbs are evol where are these magical zero carb HGs?  HG's typically eat the liver fresh after a hunt, liver is the richest animal source of carbs as far as I know.

If you feel you have explosive strength on zero carb that's fine but if you feel lacking don't be afraid of carbs.  I personally don't get why you would want to put extra stress on your body to convert protien and lactate versus just eating some carbs which happen to provide nutrients lacking in a pure carnivore diet.

Just my 2 cents.

[cliff]

A great way to easily disprove this is looking at the American diet for the past 30 years. As the carbohydrate % keeps raising, Americans keep getting sicker and sicker.

Detailed dietary assessments have been conducted in the UK since the turn of the century. Carbohydrate intake represented over 60% energy in the 1920's, and apart from a plateau and even a rise, due to rationing during and after the Second World War, carbohydrate intake continued to decrease in the UK, reaching a low of 45-46% energy in the 1950's, 60's and 70's (21,22). With interest in dietary fibre in the 1970's and more recently a renewed interest in starch, intakes of carbohydrate in the UK in the late 1980's, early 1990's have risen to about 48% energy (21,22)


Carbohydrate consumption has decreased but refined carbohydrate consumption has increased i.e. Carbs that actually have nutrition have been replaced with nutritionally devoid products.

Another interesting trend is that Grain consumption has increased since 1960 but has never reached the amount that was eaten in the early 1900s.  THe grain of choice was white flour at that time yet no obesity epidemic.

Carbs don't cause problems its the refined seed oils and combinations they are put in that cause problems.

[TylerDurden]

Ah, my brother is now also on an "evil carbs" warpath. Silly, really. It's refined carbs that are the real problem, in most cases, not unprocessed carbs.

[proteus]

Ah, my brother is now also on an "evil carbs" warpath. Silly, really. It's refined carbs that are the real problem, in most cases, not unprocessed carbs.

you won't become diabetic by eating tree bark that's for sure.

[Josh]

Ah, my brother is now also on an "evil carbs" warpath. Silly, really. It's refined carbs that are the real problem, in most cases, not unprocessed carbs.

True, but you are on a fairly low carb diet, no, compared to what standard eaters consume?

[TylerDurden]

True, but you are on a fairly low carb diet, no, compared to what standard eaters consume?

  Only due to personal taste and convenience, really. I tend to overeat far too much if I eat mostly raw fruit and raw veg, which is a waste of money, plus if I eat mostly raw meats/organ-meats, I feel sated much earlier and don't need to eat throughout the day, which saves time. That said, I have had times when I was forced to eat only raw plant foods when raw animal foods were unavailable for up to a fortnight, and that did me no harm. I would not view raw plant food as useful for actually rebuilding my body re health, but, for keeping my body at the same level of health without deterioration, they are fine(assuming I don't do something stupid like eat 100 percent raw vegan for several months plus, at a time).

[CHK91]

Detailed dietary assessments have been conducted in the UK since the turn of the century. Carbohydrate intake represented over 60% energy in the 1920's, and apart from a plateau and even a rise, due to rationing during and after the Second World War, carbohydrate intake continued to decrease in the UK, reaching a low of 45-46% energy in the 1950's, 60's and 70's (21,22). With interest in dietary fibre in the 1970's and more recently a renewed interest in starch, intakes of carbohydrate in the UK in the late 1980's, early 1990's have risen to about 48% energy (21,22)


Carbohydrate consumption has decreased but refined carbohydrate consumption has increased i.e. Carbs that actually have nutrition have been replaced with nutritionally devoid products.

Another interesting trend is that Grain consumption has increased since 1960 but has never reached the amount that was eaten in the early 1900s.  THe grain of choice was white flour at that time yet no obesity epidemic.

Carbs don't cause problems its the refined seed oils and combinations they are put in that cause problems.

We also can't forget the much higher fructose consumption. Fructose syrup is found in pretty much everything nowadays.

[achillezzz]

We are talking about natural carbs like REAL soaked oats..
The only problem with oats is the phytic acid, soaking in mild acid enviorement will deal with the phytic acid....

Real oats dont contain gluten its only the ones that come from factories because of contamination ...

now wtf is wrong with soaked oats?