RAW MEAT DOCUMENTARY CASTING

[PaleoPhil]

OK, you seem to be speaking reasonably, Sabertooth. Maybe you just had to vent off steam. So what is your number 1 priority and goal--your children or your political agenda or what? If it was me, the children would come first, so that's my bias and if I seem harsh, that's probably why. As I get older, politics and glorious causes interest me less and human beings and simple things more. I could be completely misguided, of course.

[sabertooth]

Nothing but peace is enough for me!

Its not about politics, its about being free to live and let the children be who they will be. The trouble is that politics get in the way. There is a world of people who think they know how my children should be raised. My children are new to this world and dont need to live up to any ones ideals. To simply be alive and be at peace with the world is my only particular goal. My mind is often stuck on whatever philosophical approach I am studying at the time and as of late I have realy gotten into Zen. There is the idea that you don't have to force anything. The children will learn by simply being engaged with the routine activities of daily life. What more do they need?. The idea that you have to force a 5 year old child into academics is appalling to me. I prefer taking them out to a park and while on parade we learn about life in the real world. Sure there is a place for academics but you don't have to start them so young. There is anxiety that comes from attempting these kinds of pragmatic and Ernest discussions with people who just don't care to recognize that there are a million roads to travel, so I often never have the time or patients to explain myself fully.

I am not some rebel without a cause, I am a scholarly man who has studied the sciences of human development, nutrition, and have dabbled a little in mysticism. I have my own unique view of the world that I want to share and develop more fully. My other main goal is to ensure that my children have the same freedom and opportunity to do develop  their own view under the direction of more natural influences . Does anyone see what I am tring to do now?

I never usually speak of the children , not because the are not a priority , its just that announcing to the world that we chased a group of thirty geese into the pond yesterday isnt much for internet chat. Its hard to bring up all the little joys and journeys of fatherhood within the context of these big and serious discussions here.   

[Dorothy]

Sabertooth - I have written before and I will write again that I see you as a man wanting to do what is right, attempting to follow his heart the best he can.

I see what you see in our country. The big question is, how does one fight the good fight?

The one hope I see for us is not the standard media because it is already part of the problem. I see forums like this and others on the internet as one of our last stands of freedom - one of the few ways to find some truth. Our way to break out of the shackles person by person. A slight openness and desire for health can open a mind and lead to healing and larger freedom of thought. This place is not controlled. There can be people in the media that will also gain great strides. You might be one of those people. Being in that spotlight can come with some great costs though.   

What you are going through at the moment must be outrageous! The stress of a marriage breakup and big brother at your doorstep.

It can be hard to gain a footing at such times. Anger and fear and all one's survival mechanisms as well as overwhelm can get in the way.

I hope to be a voice from afar gently asking you to stand outside of yourself and ask what your priorities are. If the number one thing you truly want is to retain your children and keep yourself unincarcerated - then you will need to let go of your fight for now and strategize your way out -- working with and around the system as it is at present. You need help. Your number one priority in such a case is to find yourself a lawyer to help you through the maze that is our country's laws. Someone to help protect you from the lies and manipulation. There are ways to get free legal advise. I wish I could direct you, but perhaps Phil could help more than me in that regard. If you had listened and not let those people into your home - you would probably be better off right now. You have people here trying to help you. We are not in your situation so can perhaps see some things that you aren't able to because of your proximity. What I read the most repeated and what I have felt since reading this thread the first time was a sense that the children could be in jeopardy.

You could let your children be taken from you permanently, let more people in your home even though they have no legal standing to do so, you can be manipulated and tricked into serving a prison sentence - and perhaps then even do a great deal of good by plastering your case all over the media. I'm not judging. It might be what you want or your purpose. It might be the greatest good. It might be best to let your wife take full custody. I am in no position to state what is "best" for them or for you.

What I do see however is the timeline. I've seen you setting up this situation. I just want you to be aware of what you are choosing each step of the way. If you stay on the path you are on at present, the most likely outcome will be you losing control and perhaps even contact with your children.

Again, seeing their father standing up hell or high water for what he believes, spitting in the face of the establishment, going out in a blaze of glory, might be why they chose you.

They also might really gain a lot from having their father with them day in and day out with you on a youtube raw paleo station instead.

These are big moments of choice for you.

[goodsamaritan]

... that he probably shouldn't be allowed to interact with his children.

Funny how you caught this embedded statement CK.

It's precisely why people need to butt out of other people's business.  He's the dad and has ultimate authority of his own kids... from my point of view.

[goodsamaritan]

Sabertooth,

Your point of view on academic education resonates with me.

This is why my wife and I chose Waldorf Education for our children.  Let kids be kids.  Academics has its due time.

[jessica]

i agree that sabertooth has been nothing but open this whole time about his relationship, feeling, family, emotions, habits.  and that for that he is nothing but a regular man going through a bit of a difficult time.  many couples and families separate, many couples stay in painful relationships for way way way tooo long and assume that its best for the family, forgetting that children are so highly aware and intuitive that it is best to end a relationship when it is over, or at least take time apart, and get on with being as healthy and appreciative of life as one can be.  i think his honesty is costing him much judgement from all of us right now.   i think the fact that sabertooth is very aware of his situation shows that he is not in the least bit disfunctional.  if others want to be suspicious of him because of his personal habits that is their ignorant choice and prejudices.  i know that in my own life i was accused of "Being a witch" because i collected feathers and pebbles and cool rocks from my hikes and lined my garden with them............really?!  in the 20th century?  yes people are this immature and intimidated at anythign that isnt quite vanilla.  i am sure in kentucky of all places there are many close minded folks who dont have a life of their own and would love to imagine all types of stories about the neighbors who arent exactly average, but harmless none the less!  i think its in the best interest for the kids faces to be blocked out so that adults and children alike in their community wont single them out for being different, but i do not think there is anything wrong with saber trying to explain his life style to a larger audience.  if the production company wants to pervert his message then it is up to him to be able to defend his real intentions and way of life through whichever means he can.  none of us really know the outcome of all of this right now so to cause so much angst through speculation is kind of absurd

[Dorothy]

The angst is about the very real situation that Saber is in right now Jessica. You might have missed it -- He has been coerced by a neighbor, a  police officer and child protective services to sign away his parental rights. It's no longer about what could happen with crazies calling in to demand his children be taken away because of a television show, but what to do now that it has already happened because of a meddling neighbor.

One of our own has had their parental rights taken away (or more accurately manipulated away from him) because of his practice of the raw paleo diet.

He doesn't send his child to KINDERGARTEN but that is obviously not the issue. There has never been a law demanding a child to go to kindergaten in any state that I know of. In Kentucky before the age of 6 there is no law mandating school attendance. Here is some information regarding home-schooling in Kentucky. Kentucky is not an easy state to homeschool in. Each state has its own laws. BUT  a five year old any way you look at it is legally allowed to stay home with his parents without any kind of schooling. http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/laws/blKY.htm#.UIDLX29ZWTM

If Saber weren't feeling angst right now and the rest of us with him - there would be something wrong. Saber has to make the decision how to approach this. He has to figure out if he wants to play the game enough to get his kids back or not. That's a massive decision. What he does now will effect him as well as all of us. What he is suffering is something I know I think about. What do we do in the face of people insisting that we live the way they feel comfortable with but that goes against our core beliefs and what we know to be right and true?

 

[cherimoya_kid]

I feel that you are well intentioned, Cherimoya, but if you ban Eric then you will lose me also. He is one of the most brilliant and helpful folks on this forum. Sometimes with bitter fruit comes wonderful health and knowledge and sometimes just chiming in and agreeing does not really help anyone.

As the Dalai Lama said, :"Our enemies provide us with a precious opportunity to practice patience and love," and Eric could hardly be called an enemy of Sabertooth. On the contrary, Eric tried to help the children. Even if he were completely wrong, the sense I get is that he has the best interests of Sabertooth's children at heart, which seems like a good thing, yes?

Could your irritation be in part because a vegetarian fanatic attacked Sabertooth? If so, I can understand your contempt for such dogmatic veghead nutters who steered both you and me wrong in the past, but please don't let that dictate your attitude toward Eric, who has proved himself time and again to be one of the most able and helpful contributors to this forum.

I think that Dorothy's and Tyler's advice was also well-intentioned and helfpul, even though they didn't just affirm what Sabertooth was saying. Of course, that's easy for me to say, given that I wasn't the target of it in this case, but that's my take, FWIW.

Phil, you've got no kids, have never been divorced, and have never had authorities meddling in your life, right?  if that's true, leave the man alone, and let those of use with CHILDREN and DIVORCES and USELESS AUTHORITY-MEDDLING in our backgrounds help the man out.

Or just sit back and judge him, Oprah/Dr. Phil style. Whatever.

[goodsamaritan]

Sabertooth,

I just had lunch with my in laws and I told them about your predicament.

From our point of view it's amusing and ridiculous. 

They said the same thing, if some sheriff or social worker knocked at my door because:

- we slaughtered our own animals 
- I had a pile of bones 
- my children were watching 

I'd have new best friends who'd come for dinner and took home large nice cuts and bones for their dogs.

Maybe we can tell this same story to the rest of the NON-USA world and make fun of your ridiculous US laws.

Tell this story to the Arab world.  They slaughter their own goats and sheep, it's family tradition.  Our member Sully has pics in his trip to his family in Jordan and they were slaughtering their own sheep with children watching.

Maybe naturalnews.com can pick up the story.  Or some libertarian group can pick up the story.

My 2 sister in laws now remember why they didn't renew their US visas as well.

Maybe world humor and world condemnation of ridiculous US laws will do you some good.

[aLptHW4k4y]

GS that was my reaction too, and I'm in Europe. Raising my own animals and slaughtering in my backyard is illegal? It's absolutely ridiculous. And kids watching (and learning) something as natural as preparing your food? Like watching all the crime and killing people and similar crap on TV is better. I hope those weak and irrational vegetarians stay away from our "undeveloped" countries, just for a little while more..

[TylerDurden]

Hmm,  I wonder if   all this is a cynical attempt by S's wife to get custody of the children?

Incidentally, California recently banned homeschooling. Disgraceful, but there it is.

[goodsamaritan]

Hmm,  I wonder if   all this is a cynical attempt by S's wife to get custody of the children.?

Incidentally, California recently banned homeschooling. Disgraceful, but there it is.

Hmmm.... that's another angle.

Although from my point of view again in my country, if a girl wants "custody" of children. 
And me husband treated as a criminal with only days of visitation "rights".
Hell, I'd give zero child support. And leave. And not care.
And establish my own new family somewhere far far away.
I can make my own new children.
I'll stay where I'm wanted.

[aLptHW4k4y]

Eric, it's pretty easy to "ban" yourself if you want that.

[PaleoPhil]

If you live in the USA and want to survive, you'd best be aware that you can get fined or jailed for a lot of seemingly minor things. I knew an elderly lady whose neighbors alerted the authorities and was threatened with fines because she wasn't mowing her lawn and trimming her bushes and trees regularly enough and throwing food scaps into her bushes (because she thought it would provide fertilizer, but she didn't understand that it needed to be mulched first). There was even talk of possibly condemning her house, which had sustained some hurricane damage, and thus forcing her to move. I also know a Youtuber whose neighbor complained to authorities because the neighbor could see him butchering animals like chickens on his property, so now he does it behind his trees where no one can see him.

Sure it stinks, but it's the law in many towns in the USA that you can't do these and other things. As populations grow and people live closer and closer together, the laws and regulations also grow and grow. It's one of the downsides of the population boom that GS advocates and of modern civilization (aka Mother Culture) in general.

At least two people tried to fight the law on lawn mowing in court on constitutional grounds and lost (http://www.loweringthebar.net/2010/10/towns-lawn-mowing-requirement-held-not-equivalent-to-slavery.html). If they can fine you for not mowing your lawn often enough they can certainly fine you for piles of bones in the yard, butchering animals within view of neighbors, teaching your children in a way that the authorities decide doesn't abide by the laws, and a lot of other things. Animal rights fanatics read up on the laws, statutes, regulations, and ordinances re: animals so they can nail people with them that they believe are mistreating animals (http://www.apnm.org/publications/animal_law/how_to/understand.php). Forewarned is forearmed.

As the guy who now butchers his chickens behind trees says, "If you don't want to survive, don't listen to me."

[goodsamaritan]

Let's all keep cool  and remember we are trying to empathize, help Sabertooth think / get ideas on how to get out of his current predicament.

[Dorothy]

What Eric said was useful. If even some or one of US feels that way, imagine how prevalent such feeling could be in the general public. Our country is moving towards the general consensus being that we all are responsible for all the children and can step in when we think there is something being done that we think might harm them in any way. We think that in general we should dictate how others eat, think, live. We think that because our property value might go down, we can dictate what happens on someone else's property. We think we should dictate even if it doesn't effect us at all directly. We talk about general medical care being the responsibility of the whole now so we have a right to say how we think you shouldn't allow yourself to get sick or injured. You must wear your seatbelt or helmet because I might have to contribute to your healthcare if you get injured. Your children even more so, because your children are my responsibility. Employers are starting to dictate if a person can smoke or not or how they eat AT HOME!

This is what Sabertooth is up against. It is a rare person in our society that will entertain that eating raw meat is good - but even worse - it is taboo! Killing one's own animals even more taboo - in front of children by so many that feel like their foods comes from a box in the store - it is considered to be needless trauma.

We have moved so far from community, dealing with each other as human beings in need of assistance - into so much selfishness and distance from each other, our food and even basic common decency and common sense that if Sabertooth gets into such a tide I'm afraid what could happen to him if general judgment, anger and frustration of the masses gets directed at him.

I had thought what Tyler said about perhaps this was something his wife could have orchestrated - but even if it was - it's not really. Sabertooth himself opened the doors. It's just happening now instead of later. Wifeswap probably had a reason to protect its participants in order to get more participants later. Sabertooth is not on a series with a particular network. He has gone ahead against his wife's wishes. One way or the other, these issues were bound to come up. He gave his wife all she needed to make sure she could take the children. He gave the populace all they needed to demand his children be taken away from him.

How to help him at this point?! That is the really big question.

It all depends on what his PRIORITIES are. Is his priority getting back the custody of his children or is it making a stand against our sick culture? Is his life mission to make raw paleo known to the world? This could be his opportunity. It all depends on what is the most important to him. 

 

[ys]

These are not ridiculous US laws.  These are ridiculous municipality laws. Many incorporated towns and villages ban slaughtering animals in the backyard as well as imposing tons of other stupid rules.  Don't agree with it?  Move to the unincorporated area.

Back to the children issue.  While slaughtering animals may be allowed where Sabertooth lives scattered bones around the house will always work against him during custody battle.  Clean up the mess. A judge won't have any issues with slaughtering animals if the place is clean.  Remember, it is Sabertooth job to prove his is a fit parent.

[Iguana]

if Sabertooth gets into such a tide I'm afraid what could happen to him if general judgment, anger and frustration of the masses gets directed at him.

In France, we know very well what happen in such cases. Families with children on raw paleo are nowadays carefully hiding the way they eat. Going on TV and trying to show the masses how we eat (and moreover telling them that’s the right way, implying their own standard diet is wrong) would be suicidal.

scattered bones around the house will always work against him during custody battle.  Clean up the mess.

Sure. I take care to leave no bones around, not because of the neighbors who wouldn’t notice it in my poultry backyard, but because it attracts foxes and dogs.

[Inger]

There are times for being gentle with people, but when the wellbeing of children who can't choose wisely for themselves comes to the fore I'm less inclined to be gentle. I've reached a point after reading this thread more thoroughly, and particularly after reading Sabertooth's reactions and statements about "going out in a blaze of glory", that he probably shouldn't be allowed to interact with his children. I'm all in favor of eating raw foods and butchering one's own animals and even allowing children to participate in these activities, but what did you expect by advertising these activities with the defiant attitude you seem to carry? You're well on your way to earning the label "Doesn't play well with others." That's a dangerous label to carry, in any community. Don't deceive yourself into believing that you're a genius, when what you seem to be is anti-social and self-absorbed.

The sense I've gotten is that you've backed yourself into a corner with a long succession of poor decisions. It also sounds like it's time to answer for those decisions. I hope the TV show you'll be featured in treats you gently, and I also hope it's possible for the raw food movement to live down whatever foolishness you portray.

I see you Eric. I see what you try to say. I am thinkin they are wise words.
In this world today we need to be very wise. Careful. Especially when having children. Or we might suffer greatly.
Humility, great wisdom and fortitude are needed... we need to see the whole picture. To get fixated by the idea to convince people could be dangerous. It is not about having it right..

[TylerDurden]

Rationally, I am worried that SB is being punished solely for being human and that only clever subterfuge can win the day -  emotionally, I wish he had the power/ability to warn the authorities to back off or die.

[Dorothy]

Rationally, I am worried that SB is being punished solely for being human and that only celever subterfuge can win the day -  emotionally, I wish he had the power/ability to warn the authorities to back off or die.

I'm agreeing with you here Tyler. It's why I keep on asking what Saber's priorities are at this point. Saber has given the impression that he wants to fight for what he believes is right, that he has been willing to take all the risks. His actions and attitudes will need to be very different depending on his goals. If it's ok with him that his wife takes full custody of the children so that he can be in the limelight and set himself ablaze to perhaps make a light that will be seen from a far to try to change things - in an attempt to help humanity - what he does now would be quite different from a priority of getting custody of his children back no matter what he has to do to accomplish it.

People on the forum have been warning him all through this thread that he might have to face just this. Does he still have the same desire to spread the word as he did before?

If he wants to get his children back - he needs to somehow get legal advise, get rid of the bones, clean up and look like he is willing to play the game.

If he wants to make a big statement a totally different approach might be warranted - then perhaps it is best to contact the media. Perhaps he should contact the people that did the story for him to document the further story. Perhaps he needs someone with a video camera to document it all and put it on the internet to start more debate on what his rights are, aren't or should be in a free country.

YS is right, our country is still caught in it's struggle for independence with the state rights up against the federal government laws with even more confusion due to smaller municipality laws - and then even home owner's associations. All these things are good fodder for debate, intrigue, drama and perhaps social change.

We really need to hear from Sabertooth if and how this new development has changed things for him in order to know how to advise him.

Iguana lives in a place where people have to be in hiding to eat well. If Saber wants to stand up to that tide in our country and perhaps take a part in protesting here at any risk I will fully respect that and try to help. If he wants to put keeping his children above all else, I fully understand and respect that too and hope that he will take advise on how to do it.

Such a big moment of choice.

[PaleoPhil]

@Sabertooth

I have my own unique view of the world that I want to share and develop more fully. My other main goal is to ensure that my children have the same freedom and opportunity to do develop  their own view under the direction of more natural influences .

OK, so you have those two goals of spreading your message and raising your children with home schooling and your influence, plus a third stated goal of finding a casual lover, possibly the pole dancer, and a fourth goal of getting "out of hell," yes? Do these goals seem in harmony, or do you see the 1st and 3rd goals as potentially reducing your chances of achieving the 2nd and 4th goals?

Do you think Dorothy might be right about needing to make a choice about which goals you're going to prioritize? I noticed the same apparent conflict between your goals. Doesn't Dorothy and Tyler's advice to play nice to try to recover custody of your children, get the authorities off your back and create a healthy environment for your children make sense? I hope things work out for the best for everyone involved.

[sabertooth]

Jessica and Dorothy, thank you ladies for the supportive comments.

Iguana, It sounds like you are a bunch of pussies over there in France who are afraid to stand up for who they really are. Dont feel bad it looks like America isnt too far behind.

Phil, You sure have a lot to say, and I take it or leave it. What Eric said was wrong and insulting, but you are free to defend him if you please. I sometimes wonder how much you have actually lived. Unless you have had the experience of taking care of four small children and managing a wayward wife, you couldn't possibly know what you are talking about or know what I should do . Have you been dumped and betrayed by the only woman you have loved and then been forced to live apart while under investigation. As far as my priorities! Its been 3 months since I have been laid, so of course I want to go out and hook up with this hot little pole dancer. Whats a man suppose to do? I need love now more than ever.

That brings me to Tyler,

Rationally, I am worried that SB is being punished solely for being human and that only clever subterfuge can win the day -  emotionally, I wish he had the power/ability to warn the authorities to back off or die.

We are living in a gelded age. People have become pussified. Its seen as criminal or at least a sign of aggression to contradict an authority when being questioned, even if you are just stating the truth. You cant be confident , assertive or humorous at all in the face of false accusations or else they label you as belligerent. My own family and people around me just think I should shut up and role over. Lick the boots of people who dont really care for the well being of my family. Its just natural for a male lion to rear up and get viscous when his pride is threatened. Some of the most viscous animals take the best care of their young. The protective instinct is the primary source of my need to confront this world head on. Its an overdeveloped primal drive that kicks into action and compels me protect the tribe against the first signs of threat. I have associated much of modern life as being hostile to the well being of my children so I instinctively lash out when I am confronted by idiots who try to interfere with the way I Shepard my flock. Its a problem of mine that some people think I must learn to control.

In this age it seems that many humans have reverted back to weasel logic and many of them think that its best to hide who one truly is . Our society is full of rascals who live one way and portray who they are as something different. I had the crazy Idea that I will try to find out who I really am and then ware the "real" me with pride on my sleeve as a badge of honor. Some people hate that, and feel like its wrong not to care enough to pretend to play their games, those people feel its their duty to persecute and punish those who wont play by the same rules. I grew up fed up with stupid games and the burdens of role playing. It pains me to not be able to connect with people heart to heart because of how we are all rapped up in our roles, just let go. The truth is that the real me is in part a constantly evolving conflicted mess. Most deep thinkers are full of contradictions and emotional inconstancy, this is why people build up a persona, to smooth over the rough edges and present a more acceptable self.

It may be a bit grandiose, as usual, but I believe that people are still very much persecuted today much in the same way they were through history, for just being themselves. Cast that first stone if you will but I have harmed no one. My children are beatific, healthy, happy and strong, and yet there are those who feel it their duty to force me to live in line with what is deemed acceptable in order to protect them. Protect them from Greatness and condemn them to mediocrity. People have become cowards who would just stand by and watch as a good man has his life ruined by a few ignorant, misguided and hateful dorights.


 

[Dorothy]

Well Saber - it is clear where you stand. Thank you stating it.  I can respect your choice. Licking boots is nasty business. It is true that begging for a lawyer and fighting from within their rules would be in a sense giving in.

I'd like to make a suggestion to you. Right now, at the beginning before the biggest effects, I suggest that you write a letter to your children explaining why you are taking the actions that you are and give it to at least three trusted people - even people on this forum if you like, to give to your children later.

With CPS, the police and the general public -- when you act as a lion out of instinct with ferocity and telegraph your "radical" beliefs across the airways and to their faces you will most definitely be giving them all the ammunition for the guns that they will need to take and keep your children from you. To be more accurate - they do not have to take anything as you are in a sense giving it to them like when you let them into your home and signed that paper even though it was not really mandated that you had to. Your wife whether she engineered this or not will likely be able to keep your children completely from you without visitation rights if she requests it. She and her new husband will be your children's parents and will raise them. Therefore, your children might never know why you did what you did because their new set of parents might not tell them. In your situation I would try to create early a way to let them know - even if it's when they come of age - what really happened from your point of view - as they might not be allowed to get your point of view until someone outside their sphere can reach them.

If I were giving up my children for my beliefs I would do everything in my power to get the most coverage, the most exposure, the biggest audience in order to make the most impact.

It all might backfire and do raw paleo more harm than good. It's hard to know what will be the result. But - it's what you are choosing to do and it's your right as a human being to not submit and to fight any way you know how. It will be a fine line between negative pride, ego and illusion and holding true to your self-worth and having positive pride and doing a service to humanity. Only your own soul will be able to know where that line is.

My thoughts and best wishes are with you.





 

[sabertooth]

There is no plan to sacrifice, reason will prevail. My children are still with me and I put them to bed every night. I have a whole community of people who know for a fact how much I do for them. I called the main office of CPS today and complained about the way the social worker and sheriff came in and intimidated Sarah into signing the papers, and stated to her that the investigation stemmed from false accusations.. She was very understanding and told me that she has dealt with similar complaints. I talked with her for over a half an hour about the situation, she was really intelligent and respectful and she told me that she would get a copy of the report and call me back to let me know exactly what they are investigating. I told her that I am willing to participate with the investigation and do whatever it takes to prove that the children are well taken care of.