RAW MEAT DOCUMENTARY CASTING

[Dorothy]

Oh - Sarah signed the papers and not you! I didn't realize it was only her that signed. That's much better than if you had signed them.

You are calling up, cooperating, reaching out to individuals that can help, speaking unconfrontationally and have said that you are willing to do what is necessary to prove that children are well taken care of. You are enlisting the help and support of your community.

That's what I would have chosen too. Add to that -  I would ask if the state is able to provide a lawyer for you if the woman you spoke to today isn't able to close the case stating that the allegations were false.

Reason prevails. Deep sigh of relief.

[Iguana]

Iguana, It sounds like you are a bunch of pussies over there in France who are afraid to stand up for who they really are. Dont feel bad it looks like America isnt too far behind.

I perfectly understand you, Sabertooth. You just got to be careful because the state institutions are much more powerful than any single individual.

Here I have no problem myself telling the truth, that I eat everything raw or even telling that I eat the “instincto way” if they know what it is. The problem is for people who have children: they’d better not shout from the rooftops that they eat all raw (or even worse: “instincto”  ) otherwise they would have to face the inquisition and their children could be taken away from them.

[PaleoPhil]

Sabertooth, I only meant that it might be wise to be discreet, not to become a monk, and that was the sense I got from what Tyler wrote too, and you can of course do as you please, and you know the details of your situation better than I do. It's good to see that you're already doing some of the things that Dorothy suggested and things apparently aren't quite as bad as it seemed from your earliest posts.

You have a lot to say too, but I'm not sure I understand it all. You're not suggesting that Iguana and Tyler are pussified cowards, are you? Is the language just coming across more strongly than you intended?

Eric doesn't need defending, as he has shown that he can defend himself. The sort of toughness you've talked about would include not letting his remarks bother you much, yes?

I hope things work out for the best for everyone.

[sabertooth]

You have a lot to say too, but I'm not sure I understand it all. You're not suggesting that Iguana and Tyler are pussified cowards, are you? Is the language just coming across more strongly than you intended?

To answer your questions Phil, I am not sure. I am not a doctor and don't have enough information to make the proper diagnosis of vaginitis in the cases of our French and English compatriots . Though there seems to be plenty symptomatic evidence. From what I am seeing one could even say that we could be on the verge of a pandemic.

It may be looked at as a strong accusation, perhaps, but it is in no way nearly as insulting as for someone to tell me that because of what I have expressed,  my children need to be taken away. I remember as a child being called a pussy by the older kids who would play a little too rough on the football field. Its easy to forget that not everyone has been through the same school of hard knocks, so please forgive some of the insensitivity, my French and English contemporaries.

All joking aside, I don't know for sure if there are any truly brave souls in our midst. Its so easy to defend ones ideals online when there is no risk or repercussions. Its easy and sensible to give patronizing advise that is peppered with prudence while absent of gonads. What I want to know; Is there anyone out there who can be brave in the real world. I have always stood up and spoke out when confronted with ignorance. I have confronted the great lies being spouted by teachers in school, judges, lawyers, doctors and even the BS of my own family and community of friends. I did three days of interviews where I put my self and family on the line for what I believe in, and confronted head on many of the issues that most people are afraid to deal with in the public arena. 

Also, being from the southeast, I grew up with a lot of people who were from an extremely proud and unbridled heritage. There have always been trailblazers from this part of the world. People like Danial Boone, Abraham Lincoln, Andrew Jackson, and much later Wendell Berry, Charles Manson, Larry Flint, and of course"Call of the wild man" they all came from my neck of the woods. This area of the planet was called "Dark and bloody ground" by my Indian ancestors.
 
There wasn't anyway until the internet came along for a person like me to communicate with the rest of the world. But like in the story of Horton hears a who, I trumpet out from the watchtower "We are here we are here".
Perhaps the rest of the world runs by different sets of ethics, this must be where most misunderstandings arise and what I express as my rights and beliefs may work well only for my own kind and does not necessarily translate well into other regions where people have had much different heritages. Much in the same way the Native Americans were never understood by the settlers who often referred to them as savages. Or the Romans who referred to the various European tribes peoples as Barbarians. To this day the same misunderstandings persist even in the midst of the information age. There will never be a one world unity, it would mean absolute tyranny to even attempt such a beast. With forums like this mankind has been given the greatest opportunity to work together and build a bridge of greater understanding between the many different worlds we inhabit today.   

[sabertooth]

The whole vaginitis comment may be taken out of context, unless you have seen this edisode of south park. So just to clear up any missunderstandings.LoL
south park vegetarians suck

[sabertooth]

http://animal.discovery.com/tv-shows/call-of-the-wildman/videos/special-preview.htm

To tell you the truth I am still hoping on this TV show working out for me. They told me that my pilot interviews were used to get the whole series picked up. The casting director said the Animal Planet Network loved me. I should be in the premier episode of the primal behavior series that could air as early as January. Can I get a Yeehaw? If turtle man could be given a show then why not yours truly?

[Dorothy]

Saber - did you hear anything from the woman at cps today?

You do know that it is your LEGAL right to know what you are accused of? She will most likely tell you she will get the information for you, but never call you, because she must tell you that she will give it to you as it is the law. She cannot deny you the allegations, but it is also quite rare that you would be able to get hold of them yourself without a lawyer. They play games with these things if you don't have a lawyer. A lawyer would already have all the paperwork in his hands - along with the report that the cps worker made and the police report.

I know little, but I know these things. A lawyer would know much more.

Sometimes I see you as a sabertooth tiger or that lion you described fighting a man with a gun with your jaws. What you need is a man with a gun on your side too or the hunter could just shoot you and put your cubs in a zoo - no matter how valiantly you fight lion style. Get some good hunters on your side Sabertooth! The head of your church, a lawyer, anyone with connections - whoever you can.

I agree with so much of what you say my friend. I see so much cowardice around me - but most of it is because people are too sick, too tired and frankly - often not smart enough to even know that they should be fighting any way that they can figure out to the max of what they feel able and according to their skills and temperaments.

As far as I'm concerned every person here is fighting by first DOING and being an EXAMPLE of standing up against the dictates of others. This internet thing is my hope. The fact that you and I can be talking - you in Kentucky and me in Texas and no one is censoring this is a miracle to me in this day and age. Tyler and Iguana to me are brave men fighting the good fight by coming here and helping to guide others the best they can in a world that would otherwise be without guidance and support for the likes of you and me. I am glad that you want to fight more broadly, more publicly and with more risk, and to me someone just eating raw paleo and sharing about it here has already proved that they have courage in my eyes.

[Alive]

A huge YEEHAW from me to Sabertooth - you're the ANIMAL (compliment), really looking forward to seeing your show

Hey Dorothy - re Texas I was just watching a vid on evolution and they mentioned that changes to rationalise animal classifications have not been adopted in Texas because those in control there feel uncomfortable being classified as apes, lol...

Human Evolution: Did We Come From Monkeys?

So humans are members of the ape family, apes members of the monkey family, monkeys are mammals, mammals are reptiles etc

[jessica]

If turtle man could be given a show then why not yours truly?

you may have too many teeth?  far as i can tell alls ya need is a theme song

[Dorothy]

You've gotten it confused Alive - The classification "Texan" goes back before American and even before human, ape or monkey. Texans are Texans before anything else.

[PaleoPhil]

Sabertooth, I still don't understand your talk of Iguana and Tyler having pussified vaginitis and all, but I guess it's supposed to be funny. The video clip was mildly funny, but I'm probably too old and too old fashioned to get the full hilarity of the joke, and you've gone through a lot of hell lately, so I'll not bother you further about it.

I come from people who were still influenced by an ancient culture, and was strongly influenced by them, so this may make no sense to anyone nowadays, but here's the sort of thing I'd expect to see from a man who doesn't want access to his children severely restricted, which I hope will explain where I'm coming from, though perhaps not, as the generation gap seems too broad to bridge: "Screw the bone pile! My children come first. I'll clean up my yard if necessary and do whatever else it takes to keep custody rights to my children and try to give them a good upbringing. TV show? What TV show? What is TV? Fame and glory? Pole dancer? Why are you talking about those things? Don't distract me. My mind's not on those things right now, it's on my children." If you said stuff like that, then I'd happily praise you for being a tough, mature, responsible man. You don't have to agree with me and I recognize that this is an old way of thinking that has been discarded, but I hope this explains why I'm not yet inspired to give a hearty cheer.

Some of the young folks here seem excited about the TV show. Maybe part of the reason I'm not excited by the TV show is that I've never owned a TV, rarely watch TV, and am only vaguely familiar with Oprah and Dr. Phil, so talk about the wondrous things that will be produced by a TV show is mostly foreign to me (though I do like the Internet, because it gives more control to the individual and let's me learn new things and interact with real people like you--and, yes, Eric, Tyler, Iguana and Dorothy too). Again, I hope that it all works out for the best for everyone involved, especially the children.

[goodsamaritan]

My experience with being featured National TV in a top rated show was that, in the wet market I frequently go to... where I go frequently enough the sellers there think I own a restaurant... is that they know me even more now. 

[sabertooth]

Alive. that clip just reminded me of the movie
Inherit the wind. The scopes monkey trial. It seems the man is a monkey debate rages on still, though the complexity of the logistics have evolved, the new science seems to prove without doubt that we are direct ancestors of monkeys.
Inherit the wind: what is holy?
I was steeped in evolutionary theory from an early age. I was about five years old and remember watching the movie with my mother, who would often quote  "If the lord wishes a sponge to think it will think"it was a general reference she would make when confronted with the general stupidity of many of life's hopeless situations. It was years before I could understand the depth of the scene.

Dorothy, today is Sunday and I celebrate the Sabbath by taking my children to church. It was the blessing of the animals day, In honor of saint Francis. People brought in thier pets and had them blessed. The children played afterward with the typical band of pagan children, the day was beautiful. I talked to the minister a little and am going to have to wait to first thing Monday to call and request the report.

Phil, so you are a bit of a stick in the mud and don't appreciate my comedy. The whole episode was hilarious, but if you don't like television I respect that totally. I don't own one either and limit my viewing to about a half hour or so of youtubing things of interest in the evening.

My children are not going to be taken a way, I am not on trial, there is an ongoing investigation which will not be able to produce the evidence of negligence needed to take my children. I have an entire community of people who will back me up in court if needed.  As for the bone pile, it is irrelevant, because they made us move out of the old place.

You are now criticizing my character, which is a completely different subject. Those children were with me all day, they hang off of me, and say daddy daddy daddy for most waking hours I am on beck and call to them. I have deep conversations now with my five year old who is now maturing on an emotional level. He said to me earlier"are we in the future"I told him that "yes right now we live on the edge of the future, and when you grow up you will be still be in the future" He then said" you are hurting my head" that's his response now when I begin to talk to deeply. When I am being silly or sappy he will say" be quite you are making me go to sleep". A way of saying that I am boring him.

My children are who they are because I am who I am. They see me full of life and wonderment and it inspires them. I am not ashamed of going out for a couple of hours twice a week to learn a pole dance routine, which BTW I will try to let you all see some of my moves after the showcase next month. Nor am I going to play down the fact that I will be on the Animal planet talking about the Raw Paleo diet. These things are a part of who I am and just because I am currently under persecution doesn't mean that I am not going to talk about the things that interest me. Its not like I am going to tell the social worker these things anyway, and as far as doing what needs to be done, I will do, but in the evening when the children are in bed I am going to kick back and do what I have always done which is what ever I fucking want. Which now that I sleep alone is not all that exciting.

So Phil ,What does excite you? What do you think about the movie scene, its much more high brow? Its difficult to get a picture of who you really are. It seems your heart is in the right place. I can kind of tell where you are coming from, and some of my more belligerent responses are not personally against you, but instead a way of tring to confront the general attitude of defeat. Just for you information, I hate being told that I am suppose to act a certain way, if I don't want my children taken away. I don't have to act, there is nothing to hide. I am often self absorbed and prone to daydream, and waste my time arguing with the wind, so what, there are some admirable traits , and some screwed up ones, but all in all the effect that my being has on my children is unmistakably positive. You would just have to see for yourself to know what I am talking about.

[PaleoPhil]

So Phil ,What does excite you? What do you think about the movie scene, its much more high brow? Its difficult to get a picture of who you really are.

Heh, that's understandable, because I like both high brow stuff like that and so-called "barbaric" stuff like "Mongol," and even South Park to some extent.

It seems your heart is in the right place. I can kind of tell where you are coming from, and some of my more belligerent responses are not personally against you, but instead a way of tring to confront the general attitude of defeat. Just for you information, I hate being told that I am suppose to act a certain way

I appreciate it. I wasn't trying to tell you what to do. It was an attempt at helpful counsel, similar to the way tribal elders would counsel young braves or a friend would warn not to watch out for the quicksand.

, if I don't want my children taken away. I don't have to act, there is nothing to hide. I am often self absorbed and prone to daydream, and waste my time arguing with the wind, so what, there are some admirable traits , and some screwed up ones, but all in all the effect that my being has on my children is unmistakably positive. You would just have to see for yourself to know what I am talking about.

That's good to hear.  Good luck with it.

[TylerDurden]

I just wish that certain members could be genuinely Libertarian rather than Liberal/Marxist/Communist-but-pretending-to-be-Libertarian.

[Dorothy]

What can make a forum interesting sometimes is differing opinions and personalities. Everyone agreeing can get boring. Most people that come here are strong-minded. It goes with the territory. You don't go eating raw paleo in our modern world without being strong. Often I find that strong-minded people expressing their opinions can come across as arrogant, condescending etc. even if they have no intention of it and aren't really. Everyone of the same politics or opinions or people being censored or banned (or being threatened or chastised) for having a different way about them I think could quickly become a negative spiral. One can disagree without threatening or attacking. Eric stating that Saber's kids perhaps should be taken away I disagree with - but it is also what many people in the world would think and perhaps even what others think here even - so it's good to respond to it - but threatening him for that opinion I think makes for a less safe environment for such a delicate subject. I personally believe that people expressing why they think he is wrong for such a statement would better serve all of us. 

This is a highly emotional topic - the possibility of putting the ones we love at risk for our beliefs, for our way of eating, for talking about it in public. 

This is also not only theoretical, but is about a real family in the middle of dealing - so the stakes are higher. The members that are responding also very well could have real life reactions based upon the things that have happened to them and all those emotions in response. Anyone that has lost someone, been attacked by a government agency or someone who has acted to do what they think is protecting someone against a member of their family or society by reporting to or working for an agency - even someone who cares deeply about how raw paleo is perceived - will likely have a strong emotional response along with strong opinion. 

It could be too easy to start fighting with each other with such a subject. I don't see that doing anyone - especially Saber - any good at all. Talking through all sides without making it too personal though - that could do him a great deal of good in my opinion as that might help to prepare him (and perhaps the rest of us) for what might have to be contended with.

[Iguana]

Everyone of the same politics or opinions or people being censored or banned (or being threatened or chastised) for having a different way about them I think could quickly become a negative spiral. One can disagree without threatening or attacking. Eric stating that Saber's kids perhaps should be taken away I disagree with - but it is also what many people in the world would think and perhaps even what others think here even - so it's good to respond to it - but threatening him for that opinion I think makes for a less safe environment for such a delicate subject.

I totally agree with everything you wrote in the above post.

[goodsamaritan]

What can make a forum interesting sometimes is differing opinions and personalities. Everyone agreeing can get boring. Most people that come here are strong-minded. It goes with the territory. You don't go eating raw paleo in our modern world without being strong. Often I find that strong-minded people expressing their opinions can come across as arrogant, condescending etc. even if they have no intention of it and aren't really. Everyone of the same politics or opinions or people being censored or banned (or being threatened or chastised) for having a different way about them I think could quickly become a negative spiral. One can disagree without threatening or attacking. Eric stating that Saber's kids perhaps should be taken away I disagree with - but it is also what many people in the world would think and perhaps even what others think here even - so it's good to respond to it - but threatening him for that opinion I think makes for a less safe environment for such a delicate subject. I personally believe that people expressing why they think he is wrong for such a statement would better serve all of us. 

This is a highly emotional topic - the possibility of putting the ones we love at risk for our beliefs, for our way of eating, for talking about it in public. 

This is also not only theoretical, but is about a real family in the middle of dealing - so the stakes are higher. The members that are responding also very well could have real life reactions based upon the things that have happened to them and all those emotions in response. Anyone that has lost someone, been attacked by a government agency or someone who has acted to do what they think is protecting someone against a member of their family or society by reporting to or working for an agency - even someone who cares deeply about how raw paleo is perceived - will likely have a strong emotional response along with strong opinion. 

It could be too easy to start fighting with each other with such a subject. I don't see that doing anyone - especially Saber - any good at all. Talking through all sides without making it too personal though - that could do him a great deal of good in my opinion as that might help to prepare him (and perhaps the rest of us) for what might have to be contended with.

I think it's amazing how we get strong opinionated people together, and global too.  I learn a lot from all you guys.

I'm sure the opposite ideas are good intentioned from their point of view.  It just may need further explanation since many things are lost when the communication is not face to face.

[sabertooth]

There is a lot of emotional turmoil right now with my situation, and this seems to be a safe place for me to vent out much of my frustration as well as somewhere to look for a good word that may help guide my next move. I'll leave all the politics for you guys to battle out, "I am just a caveman", and my primitive mind cant grasp such concepts as political correctness.

There are so many angles to look at, and there are going to be disagreements, that is a given. The issues I am going through need to be discussed openly and passionately, for there to be any hope of legitimizing to the mainstream our common beliefs regarding the basic tenets of the Raw paleo diet. There are other people out there who are making the choice to go raw paleo, but are worried about the same kind of persecution, especially for those with families with small children.  If I am allowed to live openly and proudly and have my story told on national television, then it may encourage others to quit hiding in the shadows and allow for exponential growth in the raw paleo community.

Then again, if all you "nay slayers" are correct and I am thoroughly destroyed by this ordeal then it could be a sign to everyone to go back and hide in your caves. Much in the same way a groundhog seeing his shadow signals 6 more weeks of winter.

Tyler
I often have the same feeling that fake "bleeding heart libertarians" are everywhere, and am glad that I live in a place were there are many genuine libertarian values still held. 

I talked with my old martial arts instructor the other day, He is a genuine libertarian, and has known me since I was 17. He is in total agreement that if you are not harming anyone then there is no reason for the law or meddling vegetarians to get involved. He has a huge heart and knows all about the troubles of the world, but he also knows how limited people are to actually get involved in other peoples "problems". There is often negative blow-back and unintended consequences that occur when government agencies and other social institutions try to regulate how human beings are suppose to live. We have some lively talks about some of the most off beat though relevant subjects. For example. Some people think that Honey Booboo is being raised in a retarded fashion, and she is being given a warped sense of self worth, but its her mothers right to raise her however she wants. If her mother wants to hop her child up on caffeine, and have her parade around on national TV, who are we to tell her she cant. I see a light of hope with honey booboo, because if she is free to be as she is, then there is no reason that the rest of us cant be who we are.
Dr. Drew Tries Honey Boo Boo's Go Go Juice

This may be my farewell message for a while because I am going to have to leave where I am squatting, soon. I will be out of internet contact for the foreseeable future, and have so much to do, that all distractions will have to cease, but as soon as my living situation is worked out, I will return.

[PaleoPhil]

warn not to watch out for the quicksand.

Oh bother, "I meant warn to watch out for the quicksand." Wish I could edit older posts for dumb mistakes like that.

Good luck to you Sabertooth. Your frustration is understandable given the circumstances. If I were in your shoes, I might feel the same way. Here's hoping you prove right and all goes great for you and your family.

[intrigued]

Interesting.  So to boil it down entirely too far, and probably offend someone by oversimplifying it, it seems like the libertarian philosophy espoused by sabertooth's friend is first do no harm, and if that is fulfilled, no one has authority to tell you not to do something, or specifically not to raise your children a certain way.  I probably don't understand it all the way, so if anyone wants to clarify or direct me to the right thread (searched and didn't find anything definitive).

The obvious problem here is that "do no harm" is great on paper, but can be extremely vague and difficult to achieve in practice.  Who is the one who gets to decide what "no harm" means?  Does everyone really agree that the way she is raising "honey boo boo" is not harmful to her, or does it just not cross "the line", where "the line" is different for every person?  I don't know that there are good answers to these questions, but it seems like if you agree that children could be taken away for ANY reason, then it seems hypocritical to say someone else doesn't fall under the same generalized label (libertarian) because their viewpoint differs in degrees.  Again, I'm probably just not understanding the libertarian philosophy fully, so I'd appreciate any insight.

I also wanted to add that I consider posting something around the same time as Dorothy to say roughly what she said, but never would've done any justice compared to what she wrote.  One of the better posts I've seen in my years on the internet.  100% agree.

[Projectile Vomit]

Anyone have any news on when (or whether) the episode of Primal Behaviors that Derek (aka Sabertooth) filmed for will air? He mentioned as early as January 2013, but I've seen no mention of this on the Animal Planet website.

[sabertooth]

Extreme Animal Obsessions on Vimeo

This is not the actual episode. My cousin found the original pilot that was somehow released on the web, there still no word on if an actual show will be aired. The interviews were cut to shreds and the editors put their own spin on the show, but overall they didn't portray me too badly.

[jessica]

ha dude seriously........this is amazing, they totally tried to make a very weird tale out of your diet.  hey guess what, you can die from eating SAD too, hey guess what, theres a chance you can die from life.....

gotta admit that was pretty weird to watch though, producers are so good at eliciting emotions

you look really healthy here, did you get other results besides cholesterol and parasites? 

really sorry to see how your family reacts to you though saber, i would be so disheartened if my family werent 100% behind ANYTHING that they though would make me healthy and happy, i hope you find a place filled with more open minded people who value your authentic self, gotta find your tribe brother

[goodsamaritan]

Awesome! A new hero is born!
Congratulations!

Do they know about this raw paleo diet forum?

Do they know you are not alone?

If it will help you communicate with your family, we should all shoot our personal videos about why we are doing raw paleo diets.

You looked handsome on video.  The most beautiful glowing family member hands down.

The follow up video should be you doing your pole dancing!