Larry's Journal

[larrymagee]

I've been Zero Carb (mostly beef) for over two years.  Maybe 18 months ago I ate all raw for about 2 months.  The main health benefit I noticed during that time was that I no longer needed to use toilet paper.  I was enjoying my raw meat eating but caught a nasty bout of e-coli from some ground beef.  After that I stopped eating raw meat, still ate my steaks very rare but I cooked the ground beef thoroughly. 

I didn't catch a cold all year so I think my immune system is getting strong.  I started having my burgers very rare about 6 weeks ago.  I transitioned to one meal a day (dinner + small bedtime snack) at about this time.  Then a couple of weeks ago I started wanting to eat raw meat again and was adding more and more to each meal.

I googled raw meat eating and found this site.  That got me into trying all raw again.

I've been eating sirloin stew meat and skirt steak (fajitas).  I like to air dry the meat in the fridge and then take it out 12 to 24 hours before eating it.  The skirt steak is my favorite because it has a nice amount of tasty fat on it.  I tried some raw liver today.  The little nibble I had when I got home from the store was great but it didn't taste quite as good when I had some more later with my dinner.  I think just a bite or 2 now in then will do me.

So far, I feel good on only raw.  It's too early to tell if I'll see a lot of benefits or not.  I have noticed that I am eating a little less.  This may be because the raw digests better.

I made some high meat and did enjoy the buzz from it.  I'm going to start another batch and make this one in glass in the fridge.  I'm not 100% confident that the batch I made in a plastic container at room temperature is safe.

There is a nice supportive group of RAFers here, many of whom I know from ZIOH.

[TylerDurden]

It is vitally important not to eat raw, grainfed meats as it can cause complications. Raw, grassfed meats or raw, wild meats are the way to go. Of course, the "e coli" issue might also have just been detox of some sort.

[larrymagee]

thanks for the input. 

[goodsamaritan]

I never buy pre-ground meat.
I think there are issues with how many animals are in that thing and how it was handled and how long ago.

When my kids ask for ground meat for cooking, I buy the whole meat, I know what part it is.  Then I ask the butcher to grind it in front of me.
I cook it immediately the same day for the kids.

I never eat ground meat for myself... I'm disgusted by it, and I don't think it's clean and I don't think those machines are clean either, they have lubricants in them.

I just cut up meat with scissors or eat with bare hands and teeth.

[larrymagee]

that's good advice, samaritan.  thanks

[Löwenherz]

I never buy pre-ground meat.

I got extremely sick from raw grain fed meat in 2007 and needed three years to recover.

I NEVER got any problem from 100% grass fed meat.

Even ground grass-fed meat never gave me any problem. I don't think that a meat grinder is harmful if used by careful staff, but the fats in ground meat could be much more prone to oxidation. That means they can become rancid very quickly...

Löwenherz

[HIT_it_RAW]

Tyler,
I believe you think heat created toxins are the main cause of health issue’s, right? Wouldn’t raw grain fed be better than cooked grain fed? I recently go to my first batch of 100% grass fed but its very hard to get in the Netherlands. The organization I buy from slaughters only once every 2 months (free roaming Galloway’s). I cannot store enough meat to last two months so when I run out I buy organic meat from a farm. They are part grass, part grain, part mais, part hay fed. Do you think I should eat that raw or cook it?

Löwenherz what are you’re thoughts on this?

[TylerDurden]

According to online scientific reports, even raw, grainfed meat contains some form of AGEs/toxins, even when uncooked. So, best to go for raw, grassfed meats at any price.

[HIT_it_RAW]

Still better some toxins than a lot of toxins. Would eat only grassfed if I could but unfortunately I have to eat some semi grainfed. Think I will stick to eating that raw as much as possible.

[Josh]

Is it possible to get a chest freezer and buy pastured or wild carcasses?

[Haai]

@Hit_it_Raw
If you are looking for more sources of grassfed meat in NL check out http://www.puregraze.com/ and http://www.natuurvlees.nl/ . I don't know where abouts in NL you are, but in Amsterdam there's a couple of poeliers that sell plenty of wild meat too.

[HIT_it_RAW]

Thanx/Bedankt Haai!!
pure graze is a bit above my budget atm. But natuurvlees has some affordable meat! No more grain fed oh yeah!! I'm in Utrecht. I currently order at stichting taurus, their meat is great!! I searcht a lot for grass fed but never found natuurvlees.. thanx again. r you dutch?

[larrymagee]

According to online scientific reports, even raw, grainfed meat contains some form of AGEs/toxins, even when uncooked. So, best to go for raw, grassfed meats at any price.

What are AGEs?  Also, do you remember where you saw the reports?

[Haai]

Thanx/Bedankt Haai!!
pure graze is a bit above my budget atm. But natuurvlees has some affordable meat! No more grain fed oh yeah!! I'm in Utrecht. I currently order at stichting taurus, their meat is great!! I searcht a lot for grass fed but never found natuurvlees.. thanx again. r you dutch?

Your welcome/Geen dank
Pure graze is certainly not cheap no. I always just buy the schenkel because it's cheapest and you get some bone marrow with it. I only just found natuurvlees myself a few days ago and I made my first order with them today.
I'm English btw, but I live in Amsterdam.

[HIT_it_RAW]

Age are heat(cooking) related toxins. But thats Tyler's expertise.

I made some high meat and did enjoy the buzz from it.  I'm going to start another batch and make this one in glass in the fridge.  I'm not 100% confident that the batch I made in a plastic container at room temperature is safe.

I realy respect that you can stand high meat after eating raw a very short time. I still have trouble eating aged meats. Its the smell/texture, dont mind the taste.

I've been eating sirloin stew meat and skirt steak (fajitas).  I like to air dry the meat in the fridge and then take it out 12 to 24 hours before eating it.

Given the current temperatures over here leaving my meat out 24 hours would almost make it high meat!

I also noticed eating less. Started out eating the same amound as cooked but that was a bit too much.

[TylerDurden]

What are AGEs?  Also, do you remember where you saw the reports?

AGEs are advanced glycation end products. These are  heat-created toxins which are heavily implicated in age-related conditions such as arthritis, alzheimer's etc. etc. Other heat-created toxins are heterocyclic amines(HCAs) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons(PAHs) which are not only present in cooked foods but are also components of cigarette-smoke and car-exhaust fumes. Then there are nitrosamines(NSAs), which are formed in smoked and processed foods. At any rate, it's no coincidence that people have reported that RVAFers at raw-food gatherings routinely looked 10 years younger, on a biological level, than SAD-eaters of their own chronological age.

Here's a report comparing raw(grainfed) chicken to boiled chicken etc.:-

http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/age-content-of-foods.html

[Sitting Coyote]

For what it's worth, even grass fed animals eat some grain.  Wild grasses and herbs go to seed at different times of the year, and when cows (or deer, or bison, etc.) graze they eat the whole thing, leaves, stems and seeds.  When we make a grass-fed versus grain-fed distinction, we're plotting a point in a gray area between these two extremes.  Unless you buy factory farmed meat, which might be entirely grain fed.

[rawcarni]

Hey Larry,
It's wonderful to see you here! I am quite excited what you will report! 
Lots of greetings
Nicole

[larrymagee]

Well, I got real sick again from trying to eat only raw.  It's a bacterial infection (e-coli or salmonella).  I'm going back to seared rare meat and well-cooked ground meat when I'm able to eat again.

[goodsamaritan]

Well, I got real sick again from trying to eat only raw.  It's a bacterial infection (e-coli or salmonella).  I'm going back to seared rare meat and well-cooked ground meat when I'm able to eat again.

Get yourself several brands of probiotics and overdose on all  of them for 2 weeks.
That should give you digestive bacteria.
And make your tummy solid for anything.

[HIT_it_RAW]

Well, I got real sick again from trying to eat only raw.  It's a bacterial infection (e-coli or salmonella).  I'm going back to seared rare meat and well-cooked ground meat when I'm able to eat again.

To be honest I’m not really surprised. It’s is commonly accepted around here that people should wait about a year before trying high meat. Its what GS said you need the right gutflora to be able to digest some things. Eating raw meat builds this gut flora slowly. High meat might build that flora very quickly or, in your case, its to much. You said you made your high meat at room temperature and had some doubts about it… maybe you were right.

It could of course also be a very harsh detox. I’m definitely with GS get some probiotics like good quality homemade milk kefir (if you can handle dairy) or water kefir. If you try raw again go slow start eating fresh meats and make very sure they are grassfed.

I’ve been raw myself for a few months and still can't handle high meat, it takes time. Hope you get well soon. Last time I was sick (about 1 month in the diet) I did the AV raw egg thing. Was well again the next day. Good luck!

[goodsamaritan]

Tell us about the AV raw egg thing...

[HIT_it_RAW]

1 whole raw egg every half hour no upper limit.

[rawcarni]

Well, I got real sick again from trying to eat only raw.  It's a bacterial infection (e-coli or salmonella).  I'm going back to seared rare meat and well-cooked ground meat when I'm able to eat again.

I wonder why you are having again problems with salmonella/e-coli. Maybe your meat is really bad quality?

[TylerDurden]

I wonder why you are having again problems with salmonella/e-coli. Maybe your meat is really bad quality?

  I know, it sounds very odd. I mean, I had  only 1 single incident of stomach-ache after eating  raw animal food once I started. Otherwise, everything was fine.