Low or Zero Carb Endurance Athletes?

[SkinnyDevil]

Soo...any world class endurance athletes who stick to a relatively strict low or zero carb diet?

[klowcarb]

Probably not. But endurance is boring and not that healthy anyway.

[TylerDurden]

All I ever heard of was one comment,on the rawpaleodiet yahoo group, by Barry Groves , the cooked-low-carb-diet guru, that an Ethiopian athlete, called " Mamo Wolde" did cooked VLC(in the 1960s?), but I have, as yet, had no corroboration/evidence re this notion at all.

[TylerDurden]

Probably not. But endurance is boring and not that healthy anyway.

I disagree. Stamina/endurance is very important.

[TylerDurden]

Here's an article casting doubt on the Barry Groves claim re Mamo Wolde:-

http://anthonycolpo.com/?p=766

[TylerDurden]

Soo...any world class endurance athletes who stick to a relatively strict low or zero carb diet?

What would be interesting is if any Inuit, in the past, were known to excel at Olympic-style events.

[Löwenherz]

Soo...any world class endurance athletes who stick to a relatively strict low or zero carb diet?

Is it true that most of all world class endurance athletes die at very young age?

Löwenherz

[SkinnyDevil]

Is it true that most of all world class endurance athletes die at very young age?

Not that I'm aware. However, I assume you would attribute this to their eating of high carb.

I'm interested in what humans engaged in, say, persistence hunting, would eat other than the animal they kill.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/health/27well.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting

[HIT_it_RAW]

Not that I'm aware. However, I assume you would attribute this to their eating of high carb.

I'm interested in what humans engaged in, say, persistence hunting, would eat other than the animal they kill.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/health/27well.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting

I always have this picture in mind. One catches a prey and eats from it for a few days. There is no immediate hurry to hunt again so you just eat and relax those days recovering from the hunt. When the animal is gone you’re going to hunt again but you need fuel for that. Because the animal is all gone you take some plant food with you and go hunt.

This is off course pure speculation at best. However there are some interesting points. When I exercise I feal best consuming carbs. They don’t “hurt” me than because I’m constantly burning them. Doing long distance walks during the hunt would allow one to eat carbs and burn most of them the rest is stored in the muscles as glycogen. After the walk(tracking) comes the actual hunt which is probably very explosive and intense burning the stored glycogen. After the hunt (exercise) one needs to rest and recover. Recovering is best done eating liver, meat, fat etc and resting. Also the bigger the animal the harder the hunt would be but the longer the rest because the meat last longer. It sounds so awfully balanced to me.

This is exactly how I eat/exercise nowadays. Low carb (animal products) during rest days. Carbs (plants) on training days.

[Ioanna]

sounds good, but what if you're hunting in winter? 

[HIT_it_RAW]

sounds good, but what if you're hunting in winter? 

Even in the winter there are roots available that provide carbs. Digging in frozen ground is another matter of course. One could store dried berries nuts etc harvested in the plentiful autumn to have some in the winter.

[Josh]

It's an interesting idea, but for my money people haven't explored the limits of what's possible on zero carb yet.

An inuit whale hunt, for example, in canoes. I think that would require a good level of endurance.

I think it takes time to adapt to zero carb. Lex has reported changes after 18 months. Every bit of endurance you want to gain you probably have to fight for.

When I was in a high altitude country, first I had low energy in everyday life then that lifted. Then I started running and couldn't handle much, but I was motivated and fought my way up to 7 miles, and could have carried on. I feel it would be the same with zero carb for some people anyway.

At the end of the day, maybe you couldn't reach the same feats of endurance as with carbs, but you could get a good level. We don't know what endurance we're 'supposed' to have by evolution - persistence hunting might be a late stage hunter gatherer thing, not paleo.

[rawcarni]

I disagree. Stamina/endurance is very important.

me too...
How could I miss this thread?...I am doing endurance stuff: ultrarunning. It's a totally different feeling and my energy is way higher and much more stable than on a "standard diet". It's like a nice steady stream of energy, the whole time. I get exhaused gradually, like becoming tired, but there is no "hitting the wall" anymore. A very high fat (>80% calories) ZC diet has been the key for me so far to being able to consistently up my mileage again and my recovery time is way, way, WAY less than it used to-so I will stick to that way of eating as long as it is working so nicely 
Cheers
Nicole

[klowcarb]

I disagree. Stamina/endurance is very important.

Agree on stamina, but not on endurance exercise. Weight-bearing exercise > endurance based exercise. I assumed we were talking about something ridiculous like long-distance running, but perhaps I was mistaken.

[TylerDurden]

Well, I suspect that all such activities are necessary.

[rawcarni]

Well, I suspect that all such activities are necessary.

Yeah me too. To my mind you need some type of balance with regards to exercise.

[Josh]

Maybe maybe not to my mind. At the moment some science seems to say that high intensity exercise can build endurance as much as actually doing the long training.

There might be other benefits to training for a long time though. My calves don't seem to be developing in line with my quads at all, and I wonder if it is because they have fast twitch fibres and need light repetitive exercise for a long time.

[HIT_it_RAW]

fast twitch need low rep short infrequent training
slow twitch needs high rep more frequent training

[Josh]

Do you think doing some low rep calf raises could beef them up a bit then?

[HIT_it_RAW]

Obviously I do not know your calf muscles fiber type. If high reps give poor results than try very heavy low reps failing btween 5-8 reps.

If you do a lot of running and have predominately fast twitch fibers in your calves they will never get very big because those fibers can't stand very frequent high rep exercise. They would than suffer from overuse atrophy.

[SkinnyDevil]

Do you think doing some low rep calf raises could beef them up a bit then?

Low rep with high resistance. That is, use as much weight as you can handle for 5-8 reps.

[SkinnyDevil]

Agree on stamina, but not on endurance exercise. Weight-bearing exercise > endurance based exercise. I assumed we were talking about something ridiculous like long-distance running, but perhaps I was mistaken.

Why is long distance running ridiculous? Also, what do you consider long distance, and what do you consider a reasonable run distance?

[Löwenherz]

Not that I'm aware. However, I assume you would attribute this to their eating of high carb.

Yes, after many years (as a so called carb type)  I'm completely convinced that eating high carb diets are disastrous for everby body in the long run. High carb intake massively accelerates aging.

Löwenherz

[Löwenherz]

me too...
How could I miss this thread?...I am doing endurance stuff: ultrarunning. It's a totally different feeling and my energy is way higher and much more stable than on a "standard diet". It's like a nice steady stream of energy, the whole time. I get exhaused gradually, like becoming tired, but there is no "hitting the wall" anymore. A very high fat (>80% calories) ZC diet has been the key for me so far to being able to consistently up my mileage again and my recovery time is way, way, WAY less than it used to-so I will stick to that way of eating as long as it is working so nicely 
Cheers
Nicole

Very interesting!

How long are you following a strict ZC diet? Any "keto adaption" symptoms in the beginning?

Löwenherz