Author Topic: Danger of Raw Food Products Made from Raw Milk (Yogurt, Cheese, and Butter)  (Read 41529 times)

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Offline blimpie

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Ok, I see. You won’t be able to highlight the nuisance of dairy products in such a situation. When we eat cooked food, our immune system is so much saturated with a ceaseless intake of abnormal molecules  that it doesn’t react anymore. It is in a state of  tolerance (like on strike because there’s ways too much work). You’ve  got to get it out of this state of tolerance, and for that you have to eat 100% raw for some time – usually a few months.


I think I hear a sore loser.  ;) Obviously, dairy wasn't a problem for his man. Plus, how can you claim that any negative symptom is bad and should be avoided at all costs, when one of the most health giving functions of the body, infectious disease, is the quickest and easiest way to detoxify the body in a modern toxic world. Especially in those who have stuffed and snailing along lymphatic systems. And the symptoms of these VITAL detoxes can be quite horrendous, as everyone from Aajonus to Vinny Pinto has described. According to Aajonus, these sometimes awful detoxifications are the only way to truly clean your body out. Without them, you will remain toxic or only get more toxic.

So if a certain food tends to induce more detoxification (such as dairy for many people), then how is avoiding it truly benenficial? Many people claim eating "too many" eggs induces unwanted symptoms (called detox; remember how high eggs are in detox-inducing sulfur folks), yet these symptoms aren't a sign of an "intolerance" or "allergy." Same for coconut products. How can we demonize these products when in reality they're bringing us a simply more aggressive and quicker, and even better targeted, solution to our health woes, even if at the cost of a few nasty symptoms for a short span of time.

Now, as far as digestion issues and other true symptoms of "problems" on the PD or RPD, look to Bruce Lee aka Bruce K aka Ian C of HEDing or Matt Stone of Rest and Refeed. Adding carbohydrates in greater quantities to your PD or RPD can have a positive impact on your metabolism and digestion, even in the form of lots of "tooth-loosening" fruits. But again, that's a matter of not enough carbohydrates, not excessive dairy.
Some people would say I'm full of hot air.

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Offline Iguana

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Sore loser if you want… Thanks for your comprehensive answer anyway.  You can have all the dairy you want, it won’t harm me! I don’t care about Aajonus, Vinny Pinto or the other guys unknown to me you cite. I just wonder why people believe what those fanciful folks say while ignoring the scientific work of GC Burger, a work based on flawless logic, continuous questioning of all beliefs (including his own findings) and several decades of meticulous experimentations and observations.

Cheers
François
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

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It is rather unwise to cite Bruce K on this forum as he is a notorious former troll of other raw forums, someone who randomly changes his fanatical dietary viewpoint every few months, thus making it clear he has no real credibility.  The carbs issue only applies to those who do badly on RZC, like me, and those people only need to add in a few carbs to get back to normal, they don't have to add in vast amounts.


As for the detox issue, that's invalid. That is, detox cannot be instigated by a particular food(except clay which actually has scientific data backing its detoxing abilities). So, if a particular food "causes more so-called detox than any other food", then that is a sign that that food is harming that person's health. Genuine detox does exist, such as when a rawist eats cooked food and then goes into detox to expel the poisons from that cooked food, and rawists do experience some minor detoxes at random as they slowly rebuild their bodies after decades on SAD diets, but that's all.
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Offline raw-al

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I think I hear a sore loser.  ;) Obviously, dairy wasn't a problem for his man. Plus, how can you claim that any negative symptom is bad and should be avoided at all costs, when one of the most health giving functions of the body, infectious disease, is the quickest and easiest way to detoxify the body in a modern toxic world. Especially in those who have stuffed and snailing along lymphatic systems. And the symptoms of these VITAL detoxes can be quite horrendous, as everyone from Aajonus to Vinny Pinto has described. According to Aajonus, these sometimes awful detoxifications are the only way to truly clean your body out. Without them, you will remain toxic or only get more toxic.

So if a certain food tends to induce more detoxification (such as dairy for many people), then how is avoiding it truly benenficial? Many people claim eating "too many" eggs induces unwanted symptoms (called detox; remember how high eggs are in detox-inducing sulfur folks), yet these symptoms aren't a sign of an "intolerance" or "allergy." Same for coconut products. How can we demonize these products when in reality they're bringing us a simply more aggressive and quicker, and even better targeted, solution to our health woes, even if at the cost of a few nasty symptoms for a short span of time.

Now, as far as digestion issues and other true symptoms of "problems" on the PD or RPD, look to Bruce Lee aka Bruce K aka Ian C of HEDing or Matt Stone of Rest and Refeed. Adding carbohydrates in greater quantities to your PD or RPD can have a positive impact on your metabolism and digestion, even in the form of lots of "tooth-loosening" fruits. But again, that's a matter of not enough carbohydrates, not excessive dairy.
The concept of detoxes has been beat to death on this site.

Detoxes are a way of excusing poor dietary choices. When I started on the primal diet I read AV's stuff about detoxes. I would get colds periodically. I hadn't had a cold in years because in Ayurveda an illness is a sign that you are screwing up on you diet or some lifestyle choice. Indeed the bacteria are doing their job but why take on the toxins in the first place. I had an idea of the reason for the "detox"  ;) ;) and gave up eating fruit, which solved the problem. The fruit was acidic which caused excessive Pitta which travelled uphill to my throat gave me a sore throat which devolved into a cold. This explanation does not necessarily hold true in another person's situation BTW.

I'm a bit confused by the twists and turns of this thread but will just say that anyone who "detoxes"  ;) ;) after eating whatever it happens to be, is a fool to keep on eating it.

Don't even get me started on Vinny.....  >:
Cheers
Al

Offline blimpie

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I'm a bit confused by the twists and turns of this thread but will just say that anyone who "detoxes"  ;) ;) after eating whatever it happens to be, is a fool to keep on eating it.

Don't even get me started on Vinny.....  >:

On rawpaleoforum, you can expect a labrynth of discussion if you get the right set of conflicting beliefs in the same room. In fact, the beauty lies in these discussions and also attracts greater numbers of "guests" to join the community. We should all be proud of our heated discussions on this forum in my opinion, although we can do without the tarring and feathering that normally accompanies them.

Well, Raw-al, you said the magic words. What's your opinion on and beef with the self-appointed health nut guru.

Sore loser if you want… Thanks for your comprehensive answer anyway.  You can have all the dairy you want, it won’t harm me! I don’t care about Aajonus, Vinny Pinto or the other guys unknown to me you cite. I just wonder why people believe what those fanciful folks say while ignoring the scientific work of GC Burger, a work based on flawless logic, continuous questioning of all beliefs (including his own findings) and several decades of meticulous experimentations and observations.

Cheers
François

I'll make a deal with you, François. If you read Aajonus' books with an open mind and open gut (might be difficult since you're so deep into the anti-raw dairy dogma), then I'll read RC Cheeseburger's books with an equally open mind. What do you say? Not too biased to take on this challenge, are ya?

It is rather unwise to cite Bruce K on this forum as he is a notorious former troll of other raw forums, someone who randomly changes his fanatical dietary viewpoint every few months, thus making it clear he has no real credibility.  The carbs issue only applies to those who do badly on RZC, like me, and those people only need to add in a few carbs to get back to normal, they don't have to add in vast amounts.


As for the detox issue, that's invalid. That is, detox cannot be instigated by a particular food(except clay which actually has scientific data backing its detoxing abilities). So, if a particular food "causes more so-called detox than any other food", then that is a sign that that food is harming that person's health. Genuine detox does exist, such as when a rawist eats cooked food and then goes into detox to expel the poisons from that cooked food, and rawists do experience some minor detoxes at random as they slowly rebuild their bodies after decades on SAD diets, but that's all.

Bruce K may have been a troll, but his ideas weren't completely kooky, in fact some even made a whole lotta sense for a crazy troll. His change of dietary beliefs is no different than the change of beliefs that countless people across the world experience, including you yourself a long time ago. Character assination can't hide genuine intelligent pursuit, not in my eyes at least.

Tough guy (tyler durden, lol), if 90% of scientific studies according to one significant study news article are b*******, then how would your claim that only clay truly induces detox because it's backed by studies make sense? Or better yet, where are the references other than your own conclusions that prove that statement? Aajonus' claims regarding detox are based on experience, studying cadavers and how toxins store in them (he's even said that on the radio), as well as through iridological analysis of his clients over the years (which he has explained he didn't trust that science until it proved true with his girlfriend and the loose IUD in We Want To Live), not to mention testing fluids and tissue samples from detoxes for toxins resulting in positive test results. Your claims are based on your biased belief in my opinion that detox beyond colds/flus cannot exist. If not, please provide a reference or genuine expert to back up line two of your second paragraph. Also, explain Aajonus detoxifying epoxy leter on in the updated We Want 2 Live from a surgery when he was a teenager. Or explain the detoxifications in his newsletters of vaccines years later into the primal diet at random. Aajonus' own vaccine detox (tetanus; pictures included) came 50 years after recieving the vaccine!
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 08:10:13 am by TylerDurden »
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Offline TylerDurden

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Aajoinus has made numerous bogus claims in the past. For example, he has claimed that he did a huge amount of scientific research. When people, however, ask for him to provide the evidence for such research, he pretends that he can only obtain the results if people give him a million dollars or more. Then there's his ridiculous coyote story etc. So, kind of difficult to support his detox theories. Ironically, his claims re cooked food being unhealthy are easily proven by looking at the thousands of studies found on pubmed etc. which detail the precise damage caused by heat created toxins like advanced glycation end products etc. If he just cited those, he would have more crediblity.


The 90 percent claim is also ridiculous. For one thing, science advances by the mass of data. So, if we have a dozen studies favouring one side and only 1 study favouring the opposite side, then it is reasonable to assume that the former side is the correct stance. So, while 1 study may be wrong,(such as the study claiming 90 percent of all other studies are fraudulent), the studies as a whole prove the point.

As for clay, there is numerous evidence to back clay as a detoxer:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geophagy#Impact_on_health

Parrots are known to eat clay rich soil in order to counter the buildup of toxins from the plants they eat etc.

As for Bruce K, he is hardly intelligent. His constant changing of dietary stance indicates strong orthorexia, among other things. My own formerly swift changing of dietary stance, 10 years ago, stopped once I found what worked for me - it is not comparable to Bruce K's absurd behaviour, since I was doing it solely for health, rather than trying to confuse people.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 08:27:23 am by TylerDurden »
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Offline raw-al

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Well, Raw-al, you said the magic words. What's your opinion on and beef with the self-appointed health nut guru.

Reference AV I have never met the man. I've read two of his books and seen his video and his appearances on Youtube. We follow his diet more or less and we (mostly me  ;D ) eat high meat and I accept some of his theories but not all.

Tyler gave the best description of him when he said something like... he is a cross between a genius and a charlatan.

Vinny is a slippery, con artist. He dumps on others quite liberally with the apparent objective amongst other things) of selling his services and products. He filters replies to his Yahoo group, allowing only the obsequious to slide through. The replies there almost seem like he wrote them himself. He even makes death threats about people he doesn't like. However thanks to him I discovered the raw diet.
Cheers
Al

Offline blimpie

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Tyler gave the best description of him when he said something like... he is a cross between a genius and a charlatan.

Vinny is a slippery, con artist. He dumps on others quite liberally with the apparent objective amongst other things) of selling his services and products. He filters replies to his Yahoo group, allowing only the obsequious to slide through. The replies there almost seem like he wrote them himself. He even makes death threats about people he doesn't like. However thanks to him I discovered the raw diet.

Ouch!  :o You really put a bandaid on that one with that last line. ;) And Geoff, wow, he really took a chunk out of Vinny. And I thought his stance on raw dairy was brutal and overreactive, lol.

Aajoinus has made numerous bogus claims in the past. For example, he has claimed that he did a huge amount of scientific research. When people, however, ask for him to provide the evidence for such research, he pretends that he can only obtain the results if people give him a million dollars or more. Then there's his ridiculous coyote story etc. So, kind of difficult to support his detox theories. Ironically, his claims re cooked food being unhealthy are easily proven by looking at the thousands of studies found on pubmed etc. which detail the precise damage caused by heat created toxins like advanced glycation end products etc. If he just cited those, he would have more crediblity.


The 90 percent claim is also ridiculous. For one thing, science advances by the mass of data. So, if we have a dozen studies favouring one side and only 1 study favouring the opposite side, then it is reasonable to assume that the former side is the correct stance. So, while 1 study may be wrong,(such as the study claiming 90 percent of all other studies are fraudulent), the studies as a whole prove the point.

As for clay, there is numerous evidence to back clay as a detoxer:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geophagy#Impact_on_health

Parrots are known to eat clay rich soil in order to counter the buildup of toxins from the plants they eat etc.

As for Bruce K, he is hardly intelligent. His constant changing of dietary stance indicates strong orthorexia, among other things. My own formerly swift changing of dietary stance, 10 years ago, stopped once I found what worked for me - it is not comparable to Bruce K's absurd behaviour, since I was doing it solely for health, rather than trying to confuse people.

Geoff, Geoff, Geoff. Once again, let me start by saying the 90% quote was perfectly valid and I consider the point you tried to make to disprove that finding not even worthy of moot. Another ridiculous pro-BS research claim without a credible reference (lol). Ahem, I agreed with the clay one, but I also raise the fact that that more than clay can do that. Look at cilantro for instance. That's known to detoxify mercury. Aloe and bitter herbs are known to flush/detoxify the liver. Chlorella is known to detoxify heavy metals. Most of those things even have genuine 10% research behind them. Clay isn't the only detoxifier, and even milk can act as a detoxifier in its raw state, as can coconut cream, fruits, etc.

Moving on, I shall shoot an arrow through your anti-AV argument. Where's the reference for you claim that he's lying about his research? Have you ever poked at cadavers? Because Aajonus has, and people don't go around lying and saying "Oh yeah, I've digged into dead human corpses." And also how does he know the exact price for testing for toxins from the 70s as well as today if he's never actually done such research? Sure, he could look up modern prices to back up a hypothetical lie, but 70s and 80s prices, he'd have to do a bit of work to find those. And all this searching to put together a big lie? That sounds like something a CIA or NSA agent would do, not a health counselor. Aajonus doesn't make conspiracies, he fights them, and he risks his life in the process (reference: wewant2live.com newsletter november 2009).

Orthorexia is a made up disease. Just naother label like bipolar disease Yes, he did have a mental breakdown and did believe that PDers were trying to kill him (oy vay), but he did make an intelligent, experience-based effort to uncover interesting bits of health info. Again, no need for character assination, he did make some interesting points to say the least. I wouldn't call him "hardly intelligent" aka dumb (what you really mean). And when did Bruce ever admit to trying to confuse people? He may not have been so right, but he never attempted to throw people off the scent.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 03:48:56 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline TylerDurden

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As usual, you got it wrong. The 90 percent figure study has been damned as being highly biased:-

http://www.bepress.com/jhubiostat/paper135/

and just one study(or review in this case, rather) of just a few studies does not validate attacking 90 percent of absolutely all studies. You need several studies, and such studies need to overwhelm the studies showing the opposite claim.


As for Aajonus, he specifically stated that he had done some pro-raw research some decades ago with a "friend" but that when he asked for the research, he was told that he needed 1 or 2 million dollars to get the research back because the relevant company had folded or some such nonsense. That is as lame as his coyote stories. Then there is his laughable claims re CIA agents supposedly injecting him with vaccines.

As for Bruce Kleisner, he has proven to be even dodgier than AV. And orthorexia is not a made-up disease, it is perfectly genuine  - there are plenty of people like Bruce K who are always looking for  the "perfect diet" who, of course, never find it. As a result of his bizarre behaviour, many people have been misled into trying all sorts of dangerous, weird diets such as Matt Stone's nonsense etc. No wonder AV-Skeptics imploded.
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Offline blimpie

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To quote Borat, Wah wah weh wah!

As usual, you got it wrong. The 90 percent figure study has been damned as being highly biased:-

http://www.bepress.com/jhubiostat/paper135/

and just one study(or review in this case, rather) of just a few studies does not validate attacking 90 percent of absolutely all studies. You need several studies, and such studies need to overwhelm the studies showing the opposite claim.

Still doesn't prove the validity of the 90%. And everyone knows how the pharmaceutical industries twist studies to get drugs approved and vaccines validated. If 90+% of studies are for pharmaceuticals, then in my opinion, the 90% claim would make absolute perfect sense. Otherwise, we're at a stalemate here, Geoffrey.

As for Bruce Kleisner, he has proven to be even dodgier than AV. And orthorexia is not a made-up disease, it is perfectly genuine  - there are plenty of people like Bruce K who are always looking for  the "perfect diet" who, of course, never find it. As a result of his bizarre behaviour, many people have been misled into trying all sorts of dangerous, weird diets such as Matt Stone's nonsense etc. No wonder AV-Skeptics imploded.

We get it Geoffy. You want to character assassinate Bruce Lee, aka Bruce Kleisner, aka Ian C, aka the original AV skeptic, but he still had ideas worthy of hearing out. Oh please, you know how many people have obsessive behaviours in this world? Find me someone who doesn't. Matt Stone is experimenting, and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't condone every aspect of his diet, but he's going off of logic, reasoning, experience, and understanding, plus some theorizing. He isn't just making up things as he goes along even if he fumbles occasionally.

You know why AV-skeptics imploded? Because there's so much truth to Aajonus's teachings, and because the aggressive, hateful, chastising approach those guys adopted just leads to anarchy in the food science forum and utter self-destruction.

And orthorexia isn't a disease. That's nonsense. If anything, it's a behaviour. There is no physical defect that can be identified and associated with the behaviour. Read the work of Thomas Szasz.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Pure b*ll and obfuscation.
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Offline raw-al

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Pure b*ll and obfuscation.
Is that word paleo?  ;D
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I think I hear a sore loser.  ;) Obviously, dairy wasn't a problem for his man. Plus, how can you claim that any negative symptom is bad and should be avoided at all costs, when one of the most health giving functions of the body, infectious disease, is the quickest and easiest way to detoxify the body in a modern toxic world. Especially in those who have stuffed and snailing along lymphatic systems. And the symptoms of these VITAL detoxes can be quite horrendous, as everyone from Aajonus to Vinny Pinto has described. According to Aajonus, these sometimes awful detoxifications are the only way to truly clean your body out. Without them, you will remain toxic or only get more toxic.

So if a certain food tends to induce more detoxification (such as dairy for many people), then how is avoiding it truly benenficial? Many people claim eating "too many" eggs induces unwanted symptoms (called detox; remember how high eggs are in detox-inducing sulfur folks), yet these symptoms aren't a sign of an "intolerance" or "allergy." Same for coconut products. How can we demonize these products when in reality they're bringing us a simply more aggressive and quicker, and even better targeted, solution to our health woes, even if at the cost of a few nasty symptoms for a short span of time.

Now, as far as digestion issues and other true symptoms of "problems" on the PD or RPD, look to Bruce Lee aka Bruce K aka Ian C of HEDing or Matt Stone of Rest and Refeed. Adding carbohydrates in greater quantities to your PD or RPD can have a positive impact on your metabolism and digestion, even in the form of lots of "tooth-loosening" fruits. But again, that's a matter of not enough carbohydrates, not excessive dairy.

I did all the dairy experiments I could get my hands on and none of them worked for me.  I'm hopelessly lactose intolerant.  I remember posting some of those experiments here in this forum.
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Offline Ferocious

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All evidence/scientific research/whatever aside and instead simply thinking with my brain, I can find absolutely no reason why dairy would be beneficial to my diet. I can only see it as totally unnatural to me and therefore harmful. It is the most obvious thing. The greatest study on dairy couldn't tell me otherwise.

Offline KD

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People have to eat something to survive and when eating raw those selections become quite limited as to what functions as food for repair as well as sustenance. On top of that..people can benefit from a variety of restrictions OR additions to their diet as well as other health practices to deal with various unnatural circumstances they have inherited. Basing a diet on hypothetical ideals divorced of that fact..is just plain ignorant..even if in many cases simply improving ones diet based on such ideology might be all that is necessary for some.

So much of the technology we do have is so poor that these contrary "radical" ideals become appealing. The thing is it can be scientifically proven that certain substances bind with other substances, that various vitamins and minerals supplied by food or sunshine can repair or even types of radiation (like infared) can remove harmful substances from the body etc... In extremes like actually ingesting outright posions these tools can be life or death but somehow there is often only the extremes of obsession over internal "poisons" or complete denial/fantasy as to how these things become resolved.

Without getting into too many unknowns, its just not scientific to say that substances like dairy cannot help aid in this process particularly since it does supply its own unique and abundant blend of minerals and properties even if it is accompanied by supposed harmful substances.
  
If someone subtracts dairy from their diet (first we have to assess what type of dairy we are talking about)  or chooses against it then by default one is going to have to make up that deficit with more meat proteins, carbs from fruits or large amounts of vegetables or plant fat, or pure animal fat sources that are likely frozen and not as effective for certain things as fresh dairy fats.
 
Likely with a little searching you are going to find many arguments citing problems with excessive consumption of any of these above just as with dairy. The only real argument then comes back to peoples own experiences or some abstract idea of what is good or natural divorced of those experiences.
 
Just based on my experience and talking to others who have indeed tried alot of variations on raw - without assuming dairy is a perfect food devoid of problems - a diet constructed with certain kinds of dairy products can function far better than a lot of other raw foods or diets one can construct from those foods. It also seems to be plenty of empirical evidence that people have healed things through use of dairy products or at the very least while consuming them..so any real conversation of such should be dealing with what exactly the cons are and if they outweigh the pros..and not focused on how adding or subtracting dairy is some magic panacea because that is far too simplistic. Saying that dairy can't possibly cause someone to succeed where they couldn't with other approaches..is certainly just as skirting of basic evidence as saying all people can handle dairy.
 

---

Seems to me that detoxes are legitimate as long as they result in further objective benchmarks of health and not in most other cases. Also if acute symptoms resolve and become less frequent while doing the same diet more or less.

People obsessed with detoxes without actually having objective plateaus of health or people trying to redefine health based merely on following a program to a T or some other abstraction unrecognized by others - be they primal dieters of vegans or paleo dieters - would do well to go explore something else and possibly be open to something like adding or subtracting dairy or fruits or whatever other thing.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 01:25:22 pm by KD »

Offline klowcarb

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Grassfed butter makes me so happy.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Well Phillip, you understand the point I was trying to make, that the whole kangaroo trial for aajonus and the primal diet is absurd, and that we're all of the same bloodline metaphorically speaking regardless of the words used to name this forum and the diet of the majority who use it.
Does Aajonus consider his Primal diet to be of the same bloodline as raw Paleo diets and what does he think about the founding hypothesis, that the main source of diseases of civilization is biological discordance with modern factors, particularly modern foods, and that biological harmony tends to produce good health?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
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Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Blimpie was outed as a previous troll and got banned.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

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I hope someone else will answer.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline KD

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I hope someone else will answer.

I would say no. Seems to me the philosophy of PD goes pretty contrary to that. It clearly has little to do with the way one would literally eat in nature. It has its logical basis for the types and proportions of food included in the diet based on at least someones idea of biology/anthropology but many things are factored entirely for modern peoples issues rather than simply eating a diet we were meant to eat to restore health.
 
Pretty sure many 'paleo' diets practiced would be considered maintenance diets at best...and likely then as non optimal for reversing illness or for basic nutrition which are seen again as having different requirements in contemporary situations. Of course in nature people without already degenerative problems and toxic buildup etc...could live quite healthfully lacking many such protocols and possibly with a variety of foods or diets that are raw or even not..also less dependance on fats or restricting carbs or any other thing modern people choose to do.  
  
I think many would argue that many toxins/medicines etc... buried in different types of tissue are far too stubborn and unnatural themselves to be fixed simply through stopping intake of them. At the very least some regular changeover of fats seems to be the smart move there.
 
Personally I think for people more or less without serious illness...many times just removing modern foods can return to some equilibrium and reasonable health...but this isn't necessarily the same as correcting deep seated problems or a life without disease. I guess the paradox is how long one goes on with 'detoxes' before they experience that.
  
Seems to me if the basis of disease is various types of pollution and other intake never meant to be absorbed into human beings..that the mechanisms for healthy storage and 'detox' of such things isn't exactly always in the complete purview of nature's wisdom. hence why many things like fasting - which indeed is a natural/instinctive mechanism- or other things that accelerate detoxification can be damaging for people that don't have the right circumstances/nutrition to facilitate it well.
  
 
 
 
    
      

Offline PaleoPhil

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Thanks KD.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

 

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