Author Topic: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.  (Read 22637 times)

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Offline goodsamaritan

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I observe that humanity is at a breaking point.

We are at the "children of men" scenario.

Global statistics show fertility rates are failing and failing miserable far below replacement levels.

Getting on raw paleo diet now for some time and I see things differently.

Fertility rates are not just low because people have become contraceptive these days.

Fertility rates are low because the women these days are WEAK.

We all see how hopelessly nutritionally deficient "normal" people's diets are.

Women do not grow up with enough nutrition to bear multiple children these days and not without medically assisted delivery.

Women are afraid of getting pregnant... because they don't have enough nutritional resources to count on.

Women these days cannot even IMAGINE 8 to 12 babies as their grandmas and great grandmas once did... even with all the money in the world... they don't have the health for it.

The entire monogamy thing is now useless as a strategy for reproductive success unless you can get a wife who is paleo diet educated and fed who is nutritionally sound and fit for multiple child birth.

Now I'm just keen on feeding my girl a lot of nutritious food.  One day, she may have the strength of her grandma and great grandmas to easily and wantonly bear many children.

Please chime in with your thoughts and POVs.

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Offline klowcarb

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2011, 11:52:43 pm »
Well, I agree and disagree.

I do weight lifting and eat zero carb paleo, so I am lean and strong, not fat and soft like most women. That said, you know that I do not want to get pregnant and have children. I just do not feel maternal, and I have life goals that conflict with child rearing. I have not ruled out adoption in the future.

Offline eveheart

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2011, 01:07:16 am »
While I agree that nutritional deficiency is statistically rampant, both men and woman are affected. Using this to look at fertility rates presents only a fraction of the whole picture.

I live in urban California, where there is extraordinary cultural diversity. My observation is that family-size expectations are driven by cultural patterns and perceived financial ability. It would take some sophisticated statistical sampling to find family-size correlations based on nutritional factors alone.
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Offline nicole

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2011, 03:25:56 am »
Women dont seem to want kids much these days because they're mostly feminists. Even if they don't call themselves feminists they have still been taught it. Having children is considered weak for a woman to do. They have had unpleasant experiences themselves as a child and so they don't want children. American society does not view raising children as it used to, unless they are religious. I want to have at least 4 sons and a couple of daughters myself as soon as my boyfriend says it's okay to.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 04:40:51 am by TylerDurden »
Give it to us raw, and wriggling. You keep nasty chips.

Offline klowcarb

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2011, 04:16:54 am »
Women dont seem to want kids much these days because they're mostly feminsts. Even if they don't call them selves feminists they have still been taught it. Having children is considered weak for a woman to do. They have had unpleasant experiences themselves as a child and so they dont want children. American society does not view raising children as it used to, unless they are religious. I want to have at least 4 sons and a couple of daughters myself as soon as my boyfriend says its okay to.

I had the most wonderful childhood you could ever imagine. But I remember being 5 or so and thinking that I did not want to be a mother.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2011, 04:41:56 am »
Women dont seem to want kids much these days because they're mostly feminists. Even if they don't call themselves feminists they have still been taught it. Having children is considered weak for a woman to do. They have had unpleasant experiences themselves as a child and so they don't want children. American society does not view raising children as it used to, unless they are religious. I want to have at least 4 sons and a couple of daughters myself as soon as my boyfriend says it's okay to.
I always remember how miserable it was to have only one sibling. It's more fun to have lots of brothers and sisters.
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Offline klowcarb

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2011, 11:14:08 pm »
I always remember how miserable it was to have only one sibling. It's more fun to have lots of brothers and sisters.

I have a younger sister. I like having just one sibling. I was not alone--we are 3 years apart--but we had individual space, time with our parents, our own rooms, etc. I would not want to be just one of many, stuck like sardines in a can.

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2011, 06:23:58 am »
Global statistics show fertility rates are failing and failing miserable far below replacement levels.

I find that fact incompatible with a growing global population.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2011, 09:15:46 am »
I find that fact incompatible with a growing global population.

Basic stats Kyle.

The fertility rates go down below replacement levels first... then there is a lag... and then absolute population numbers go down.

Absolute population numbers are declining in Russia and Japan as examples.  Check em out.
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Offline nicole

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2011, 02:23:14 pm »
i think bigger families are better for these reasons:
comradery
a stronger family unit
they can look out for each other better
less likely for parents being too controlling and involved in their lives.
Of course with a large family it is almost always best to have a stay at home mother, and alot of women arent into that. and of course the father would have to have a pretty good job to take care of all of them. But thats what i'm hoping for my future.
Give it to us raw, and wriggling. You keep nasty chips.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2011, 04:36:47 pm »
My girl is just 6 years old.

I'm trying to give her the most nutritious stuff I can get.  She's on semi raw weston price (no dairy).  Her only non paleo input is organic rice.  Hopefully she becomes strong and healthy like her grandma... 8 kids... and she really wanted all of those.

Looking to find her a strong husband as well.

I want her to get married beginning 18 years old

Don't want her to get in the "sex market" (today's dating is segmented into: sex market and marriage market)

I want her marriage market only.

Candidates can start applying when she's 17, some 11 years from now.

Male must have good income my daughter can concentrate on being mother and wife to many grandchildren.  She'll grow up paleo knowledgable, won't be surprised if she's raw paleo by that time.

Hopefully there will be paleo dating websites by that time. :)

Seriously!
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2011, 04:59:40 pm »
You're such a romantic! ;)
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Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2011, 08:47:28 am »
Basic stats Kyle.

The fertility rates go down below replacement levels first... then there is a lag... and then absolute population numbers go down.

Absolute population numbers are declining in Russia and Japan as examples.  Check em out.

I don't believe those are because of fertility. I believe that there is lowering fertility but not to the point where a significant amount of people cannot conceive. Imo the reason population is stagnant or dropping in industrialized nations is that there is simply more to do these days than work and raise a family. Also because of central banking raising children, even providing for yourself, is becoming more expensive, so many cannot afford it or don't want to sacrifice the level it would take.

When I look around I see no one that I know of that is having trouble conceiving. In my generation of my family two of my female cousins have 3 sons each, two ex-girlfriends have 2 sons each. My mother actually had trouble conceiving me, having miscarriages until I was born. But that was almost 3 decades ago now...

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2011, 03:49:10 pm »
I think the prevalence of lower fertility just scratches the surface of a greater issue, which is a genuine weakening of the feminine resolve to raise strong and healthy children. I am personally aspiring to the noble effort of reversing this trend within my own progeny(just as the good Samaritan is trying to do). So far I have three daughters to raise into the strong mothers of the post paleo revolution. The obstacles are huge and there is no guarantee that such efforts will be successful, but I will do what I can.  

There are stories of a bygone era where strong armed farm working women reared 12 kids or more on the fat of the land. One story in particular sums up my Ideal of what a strong woman can do. This man I knew told me about how his grandparents lived about 80 years ago. His grandfather grew up in a farming community where everyone worked and everyone raised large a family, so the idea of marriage and family life was conditioned into the whole community at a young age. By the time he was eight years old he had already picked out his future wife, a girl that was three years younger and lived on a farm down the road. He waited until he was 18 years old to go up to the girls father to make his intentions known, and they got married shortly after. So she was about 16 by the time they married (barley fully grown) . They soon started a family and after a few years of hard work raising children on a dairy farm she grew to be about as physically strong as any man and developed wide shoulders like a line backer. There was even a story about her physically throwing a doctor out of her house because he was giving her husband bad treatment. Anyway she ended up having 12 children of her own. Her grandson(the man who told me this story) was born premature and was barley 4 pounds, in those days he would of surly died, if not for his grandmothers efforts. She placed him in a goose egg incubator and gave him droppers of expressed breast milk night and day, for weeks, until he was strong enough for his mother to take care of him.

I often wonder if being able to pick such a prolific mate and caring mother is a matter of luck or craft. To be able to pick out a woman that will let you breed her throughout the fertile years is a challenge, especial in this new age of reproductive austerity. I personally decided to pursue my brood mare after finding out that she was the kind of woman who would love to raise a family. So Perhaps old Sabertooth got lucky when finding a hell cat to produce his litter of cubs, or there may be some greater force behind the whole thing. What ever the nature of the situation is( dumb luck or fruits of a righteous conquest?), I would like to make the most of what knowledge I have available and use it to raise the type of daughters that would be able to raise twelve children if they so chose.
......
So that brings us to the question, of how to raise the strong mothers of tomorrow in a society where it is no longer fashionable to have children . Of course there is another problem , how would you gear a young daughter to seek out such a life and to pick out such a mate that would allow for the best chance of a good life for the grandchildren. These are really important questions that require further discussion.

Of course at the backbone of the plan to build a strong mother we need the most optimal of nutrition, as well as to find ways to avoid exposure to the hormone disruptive chemicals that are damaging to the maternal soul. Even if exposure to chemical pollution doesn't cause out right infertility, it can reduce the maternal capacity in ways that cannot be measured.(even the eagles who were exposed to DDT and still managed to hatch a healthy egg, often were made apathetic and neglectful of their offspring by the hormone disrupting effects of the pesticide. The same thing happens in humans although its not well documented. The fact that women today may be able to conceive and birth a child is only part of the fertility issue, the other part deals with the maternal drive. The instinct of motherhood is interconnected to the overall endocrine health of a woman and women who are polluted with endocrine disrupting chemicals may still be able to give birth, but afterward are more prone to neglect their offspring and not build the type of relationship that is required to produce the ideal human being. This is an issue that is at the heart of the debate of why women are weaker and have less interest in raising baby's these days. A woman who is in prime hormonal health should have a body and mind that desperately craves insemination.

So raising the future mothers on a more natural diet that is void of pollution is at the top of the list of things to do. Of course this leads us to the next problem, what do you do once you have raised a daughter on paleo nutrition and then like clockwork they develop the biological craving to get pregnant , often before a suitable mate has been vetted. This is where the parental nightmare begins. What can one do to insure that your daughters wont get knocked up by the first gutter tramp that feeds them smooth a pick up line. There has to be something one can do to at least encourage a more discerning heart. Instead of locking them up and telling them how awful so in so is . History proves that such negative reinforcements often fail miserably. Perhaps fathers should be taking the time to point out good examples of what a hard working man is to their daughters , and teach them about what makes a good man a good man.

I am lucky enough to have a woman who practices attachment parenting and my older two girls have always seen her with a baby in her arms and so they mimic her by trying to nurse and change their dolls. They are already baby crazy and for all I know each of my daughters would be capable of raising 12 kids if they were so inclined.  

« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 04:31:37 pm by sabertooth »
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2011, 05:53:28 pm »
Awesome post, Sabertooth.

Maybe the dating websites can help refine our search for great husbands for our daughters:

- interested in real marriage
- interested in lots of children
- has financial strength
- dedication to family till death do they part
- healthy!

And for the naysayers of barefoot and pregnant, with the power of the internet these days, women no longer need choose between baby making / mothering early and career and education.

Marrying at 18 and being an internet marketer at the same time is a cinch.  Young mother can supplement hard working business man husband.  Even out earn him.
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Offline RawZi

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2011, 07:34:00 pm »
Women are afraid of getting pregnant... because they don't have enough nutritional resources to count on.

    Sad but true in many cases.  I was concerned about getting pregnant for a few years because my back soft tissue was so deteriorated (and meager) that I "knew" I'd be crippled by it, if I went through a pregnancy then.  Not all women are weaker than the last generation, it depends on what resources they had, luck, which genes they inherited and more. 

    Many men too may be too weak these days with today's diet and toxic environment to trust themselves to be father material.

.. In my generation of my family two of my female cousins have 3 sons each, two ex-girlfriends have 2 sons each. My mother actually had trouble conceiving me, having miscarriages until I was born. But that was almost 3 decades ago now...

    My aunt by marriage had fertility problems, but eventually did make me cousins and they had children no problem.  My side was more fertile though, so that could account for the change. 

.  She'll grow up paleo knowledgable, won't be surprised if she's raw paleo by that time.

Hopefully there will be paleo dating websites by that time. :)

Seriously!

    I wish there were paleo dating services now.  It can really help if the person you date considers your diet at least normal.  Many people take diet as a joke and eat whatever's easiest.  My partner bought packaged bread with dairy in the ingredients and calls himself vegan for health.  I guess that's why women are usually better at running the home kitchen.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 01:38:48 am by TylerDurden »
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Offline Neone

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2011, 09:11:43 pm »
haha, so glad i was born a man, so that im only expected to work... and not have 12 children, and work... haha.

When you live a hard life, your body grows hard.  But there is a reason that people are not still living in tents and caves (well i suppose i live in a tent, but whatever) and thats because its not comfortable.  You get wet and cold and hungry and sore, cut up and bruised.. and thats great fun for a weekend camping trip, but after YEARS of doing it, its just life, and yes, you get used to it... but that warm (reliable) meal and soft bed start looking pretty damn nice when bugs are driving you crazy and mother nature isnt stuffing food down your throat.

When you dont have to slug it out in the field, you have more time to appreciate your life and enjoy art and music and conversation.. I guess women get to do that while they're sitting around beading and letting their el nino's suck on them.. but mabye they want a little more in their lives? mabye they would like to have the same kind of opportunity as men?

I dont even know how to say what im trying to say. I guess im just jaw-dropped that you honestly think a woman's purpose is to breed and cook and do the things that men think women should do.  I think we should move the human race FORWARD, but i guess going forwards isnt 'paleo'... haha.
That's not paleo.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2011, 09:16:28 pm »
I dont even know how to say what im trying to say. I guess im just jaw-dropped that you honestly think a woman's purpose is to breed and cook and do the things that men think women should do.  I think we should move the human race FORWARD, but i guess going forwards isnt 'paleo'... haha.

Have you seen the fertility rates in the big urban cities of the world? Fertility rate of 1 or less, maybe 1.5 in Manila.

If these barren women aren't giving birth to the future, then some BETTER WOMEN are needed... or there is no future.

I'm not committing my sons to marry a woman who will merely give me 1 human grandchild or a dog or a cat.  What am I raising my sons for?  Those women do not deserve monogamy.

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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2011, 10:29:13 pm »
Moving the human race forward by limiting reproduction is just a bunch of transhuminist Bologna. Human beings were designed by nature to reproduce and to live within a family of loved ones. No amount of money, economic freedom or social progress can take the place of the satisfaction of living in harmony with a family of loved ones. Once People (man or woman) begin to abandon the idea of a familial centered life and begin to indulge in more self centered activities then they lost the bonds that were designed by nature to keep the circle of life rolling.

The writing is on the wall as far as I am concerned about how the modern family has been destroyed by progress, and these homes that consist of 1.5 parent and 1.5 children are not fit for providing the proper environment for human beings. Of course the broken home and distant family mode of life has already become an integral part of modern society so it may even be viewed as progress by those who have adopted this newfangled way of life. Humans can and will adapt to about anything, so I am not condemning those who wish to live differently from my personal nostalgic ideals. I am just a bit skeptical of the idea that human nature can be rewritten .

There is also this idea that if a woman raises a large family the she will miss out on all that modern society has to offer, well from my POV, there are a lot of things that suck about modern society. You can keep your worldly women for all I care and I will happily cling to my old fashioned girl and my caveman views.  
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Offline KD

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2011, 02:54:57 am »
having large families is a symptom and luxury of lock and key style civilization...so its not exactly our natural urge to have (and raise anyway) as many children as possible. When people can store resources and wealth removed from labor they start to overreach their boundaries. With indigenous people being either nomadic or static is just not feasible to have constantly expanding generations and historically its those that exploit resources which have overpowered those that live naturally. So often these arguments are just a mix of traditionalist thinking being confused as 'natural' like the idea that "sex is just for procreation"..even though plenty of animals engage in sex for pleasure..then humans are supposed to be more refined or something..constant contradictions there.

Its just not practical in nature or in present civilization for most people to have lots of children. The largest booms of course tied to explosions of wealth, technology, land distribution and exploitation of resources or in skirting the likely death of many offspring due to harsh circumstance or industrial problems of that wealth. That and just plain lack of birth control. Also included would be regal or religious zealotry (as observed today in Muslims, Jewish, and Christian sects) in terms of breeding out other races and beliefs. Not exactly great company.

However since plenty of people cannot seem to raise children healthfully or opt out, there plenty of room for people to choose AS INDIVIDUALS to have many children if they can support them. The assumptions on value systems and such i'd still say is pretty questionable as women as little as 100s of years ago essentially just had zero rights (sometimes even not a choice in mate at all)..and with no massive media network still could understand that things were not exactly copacetic.

I think what is objectionable or amoral is instilling ideas into children that they need to do this or that..this is likely what made people rebel against such..have shit relationships..family life etc because they were doing what they thought was right as opposed to what they wanted..I can only guess you instil proper values in general as far as respect and understanding that they will mature to seek out meaningful relationships that they find appropriate.


Offline klowcarb

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2011, 06:33:16 am »
I hope a lot of these women run away, get educated, and become doctors or whatever they dream of being, and the men sit masturbating at home.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2011, 06:51:33 am »
I hope a lot of these women run away, get educated, and become doctors or whatever they dream of being, and the men sit masturbating at home.
  What you don't realise is that by not having children, you are making way for those individuals/cultures that are having lots of children. One guy recently stated that because Moslems were having far more children while their Western counterparts were refusing to have such children, that eventually Europe and other such areas would become dominated  by Islamic Fundamentalists along with their female-subduing culture. OK, I am as guilty as you in that regard re not having children.

Having lots of children, anyway, does not guarantee a loss of women's rights. For example, I once did some interesting research on polygamous women from the Independent wing of the Mormon Fundamentalists, who routinely have something like 7-8 children each. Such women, despite sharing 1 husband with several other women, benefitted more than a wife in a monogamous marriage, because they were able to share the wife's responsibilities among the other wives, so could hand over child-caring responsibilities to another wife while still pursuing a career etc. Admittedly, this only worked well for the women if there were no more than 2 or 3 wives in the polygamous relationship. More than 3, and the women naturally started to benefit less.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 08:21:25 am by TylerDurden »
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Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2011, 07:31:02 am »
I hope a lot of these women run away, get educated, and become doctors or whatever they dream of being, and the men sit masturbating at home.

that's mean :(

Offline wodgina

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2011, 09:52:16 am »
I hope a lot of these women run away, get educated, and become doctors or whatever they dream of being, and the men sit masturbating at home.

yep reach useless feminist career goals that no males care about and then get to 30...35...40 realise whats really important (family) and find out they are not fertile. Eggs are in bad shape.



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Offline wodgina

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Re: Women are weaker these days... grandmas were much stronger.
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2011, 10:01:16 am »
I don't believe those are because of fertility. I believe that there is lowering fertility but not to the point where a significant amount of people cannot conceive. Imo the reason population is stagnant or dropping in industrialized nations is that there is simply more to do these days than work and raise a family. Also because of central banking raising children, even providing for yourself, is becoming more expensive, so many cannot afford it or don't want to sacrifice the level it would take.

When I look around I see no one that I know of that is having trouble conceiving. In my generation of my family two of my female cousins have 3 sons each, two ex-girlfriends have 2 sons each. My mother actually had trouble conceiving me, having miscarriages until I was born. But that was almost 3 decades ago now...

I know of plenty couples who are trying and they have been trying for years. I would say half have problems. I'm talking average age 33 years here.
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

 

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