Fiat currency

[PaleoPhil]

Maybe Costa Rica (especially the relatively pristine Osa Peninsula if you can find a way to make a living http://www.bosquedelcabo.com/home/index.html )? My other current favorites for often less than practical reasons are Tuva (some day I must go here--Tuva or bust dammit! ), Ireland, Mongolia, Fiji, Bhutan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_happiness), New Zealand, France, Turkey, Hungary, Samoa, Czech Republic, Scotland, Argentina, Brazil, Jamaica, Barbados, Sweden, Nunavut, Cameroon, Ethiopia, Trinidad and Tobago, Chukotka, Yakutia, Zululand, Botswana, Japan, China. Wish I was rich and had lots of time on my hands to explore them all.

[ys]

I would leave the US if I lived there.

good thing you don't have to worry about that.  tell that to my philippino in-laws who are trying absolutely every trick out there to get here.  some are here illegally, work under the table, and have no desire whatsoever to go back.

[wodgina]

And go where? (I mean this honestly, I cannot decide)

Anywhere but the US, you guys have had it easy for such a long time I think you will struggle to pay true prices for goods.

I would pick Australia and New Zealand but it's hard to get in unless you meet a girl or you have a skill. If you're young you can easily get a working visa if you're Canadian. Or you could try coming here as a student this is pretty easy.

[ys]

gold is down almost $100, some profit taking is going on.

[wodgina]

Temporary manipulation with paper gold. Probably go down 10%. You would be crazy to sell real gold right now.

[wodgina]

Yeah, the prudent get punished and the irresponsible and misguided are rewarded. Think about the unfortunate Chinese who save every spare coin.

How are the chinese being punished for saving or am I not getting it?

[TylerDurden]

How are the chinese being punished for saving or am I not getting it?

Yeah, I was under the impression that the Chinese were far more immune to the effects of the coming economic disaster. I mean, they have a huge trade surplus and loads of US bonds. Admittedly, if the US defaulted big-time re bonds, they might be in trouble, but the Chinese are still less worse off than people in other countries.

[ys]

chinese are still riding the expansion train and they are blowing their own bubbles.  add massive scale of corruption to it and cooked books and we might see many Enrons there.

[TylerDurden]

chinese are still riding the expansion train and they are blowing their own bubbles.  add massive scale of corruption to it and cooked books and we might see many Enrons there.

Well, at least they're doing something about the corruption. The Daily Telegraph mentioned recently about how several fraudsters have been caught in the last couple of years and dealt with. In the end, the Chinese criticised the government so much that the latter had to eventually act.

[ys]

That's not even peanuts, the scale of corruption in authoritarian regimes is beyond belief.  China's corruption rank is 78, just above Africa and the rest of the third world.

[TylerDurden]

Well, China does execute its fraudsters these days. In the West, someone who stole millions from families can get away easily with just a couple of years in an open prison with full amenities, since he/she would be considered "only" a white collar criminal.

[TylerDurden]

One obvious flaw with these corruption indices is that corruption is always carefully hidden, so that obvious  bias will inevitably distort the results. So, I don't think they are reliable. Besides, I have a brother who works in the City of London in the UK, who has told me that corruption etc. is really rife in the City but most can't be dealt with because most sensible corrupt people don't dare use their phones or other electronic gear to communicate with each other re insider-dealing etc.

[ys]

that's exactly why i think corruption in china is much worse than the index simply because china is much more closed down, they censor all their media and filter internet while London does not.  i guess time will tell when their bubbles will pop.

[PaleoPhil]

How are the chinese being punished for saving or am I not getting it?

Not ARE being--WILL be punished, WILL be if your and Nassim Taleb's prediction comes true. You explained it yourself here:

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/fiat-currency/msg75683/#msg75683
Quote from: wodgina on August 22, 2011, 09:55:03 am
Hey Phil, Doesn't it suck that people who saved and didn't max out their credit will be the ones who will be most screwed over the next year with hyperinflation?

Like you said, savers get punished by hyperinflation and the Chinese people and government are the biggest savers in the world. Imagine working 365 days a year in 2 or 3 jobs, socking away every spare penny, then hyperinflation hits and the value of your money goes up in smoke because the Westerners decided they wanted to create massive debt so they could live beyond their means, then monetize the debt and thus trigger hyperinflation? It's a no wonder the Chinese government has started complaining to the Obama administration. If I were in the Chinese leadership, I would too.

[ys]

actually if china allows yuan to go free there would be a deflation because currently china keeps yuan artificially low to favor its exporters.

[wodgina]

Well only the small fry get executed.

Phil, the creditors get shafted = China. Although the average Chinaman will buy gold and silver which is in their favour.

The world is in a gigantic economic bubble and Australia will be the last to burst. Gold is not in a bubble it is money/wealth.

[TylerDurden]

Not true. There have been several examples where bank directors, owners of companies and even regional executives in the Chinese Communist Party got executed. Unsurprising, as it's those who are most likely to be given the right to administrate vast sums of money.

[wodgina]

Small fry

[ys]

it is true china used to execute people for such crimes but lately they put it on hold due to international outcry (as if chinese care).  another thing is those executed are made scapegoats to cover bosses upstairs. 

[TylerDurden]

http://exiledonline.com/china-executes-more-corrupt-millionairesmeanwhile-in-the-peasant-states-of-america-aig-takes-another-242-million-in-bonuses/

[ys]

yes, that was 2 years ago, they put a hold on these.

[wodgina]

I heard the Chinese are getting their gold straight from their mines. Cuts out the middle man.

[wodgina]

I'm thinking of getting into good debt. In my current plan I can't see how I can lose! savers are the ones who lose lose lose.

[ys]

can you please explain what you mean by good debt? risks and how much it pays.

[PaleoPhil]

Phil, the creditors get shafted = China. Although the average Chinaman will buy gold and silver which is in their favour.

I hope for their sake that you're right. I wish our government and people had more gold and other hard assets (and less debt) to back the currency and make our people's finances and the economy more robust to adversity. It's not good for the nation to rely on fiat currency and build up such massive government and personal debt. The whole thing is a confidence game, a massive ponzi scheme. If confidence is lost, then it all falls apart.

Gold is not in a bubble it is money/wealth.

You're not claiming that the price of gold can never go down, are you?