Author Topic: Fiat currency  (Read 38116 times)

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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2011, 04:05:10 am »
Well, Obama is just as bad as Bush re Iraq/Afghanistan. I mean, a genuine pacifist would have completely evacuated Afghanistan  well before  now and admitted it all as a lost cause and Iraq is still in an appalling mess after the US forces largely left it, killings etc. going on judging from stopthewar website, with Iraq more stable under Saddam. But, yes, I had forgotten about the Bush/Greenspan issues.  In the UK, it was Gordon Brown and leftwing Labour who fucked up the UK economy, it's usually the socialists who are reponsible for economic woes, though admittedly not always. In this case, though, Obama is clearly in the wrong. The republicans have rightly pointed out that in past decades(clinton-era according to rep senators) they were asked by the democrats to raise the deficit-limit in exchange for the Democrats reducing spending, but, inevitably, the democrats soon changed their tune and greatly upped their spending habits due to greed, thus inevitably  leading to this economic disaster. Unless spending is permanently capped by amendment, US presidents will continue to abuse the system.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2011, 04:19:28 am »
Well, Obama is just as bad as Bush re Iraq/Afghanistan. I mean, a genuine pacifist would have completely evacuated Afghanistan  well before  now and admitted it all as a lost cause and Iraq is still in an appalling mess after the US forces largely left it, killings etc. going on judging from stopthewar website, with Iraq more stable under Saddam. But, yes, I had forgotten about the Bush/Greenspan issues.  In the UK, it was Gordon Brown and leftwing Labour who fucked up the UK economy, it's usually the socialists who are reponsible for economic woes, though admittedly not always. In this case, though, Obama is clearly in the wrong. The republicans have rightly pointed out that in past decades(clinton-era according to rep senators) they were asked by the democrats to raise the deficit-limit in exchange for the Democrats reducing spending, but, inevitably, the democrats soon changed their tune and greatly upped their spending habits due to greed, thus inevitably  leading to this economic disaster. Unless spending is permanently capped by amendment, US presidents will continue to abuse the system.

Sounds like Reaganomics all over again.

My understanding is that Clinton did balance the budget
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071214065623AA5VuIT
There are many opinions on this.... And, it depends on which side you voted for no doubt.

I am vaguely familiar with British politics but what you say jives with what little I have read.

I read a book that claims that economics runs in 25 year cycles in the US and we are into a Democratic vein now. Unfortunately I erased the book from my Ipod and don't recall it's name.

I heard some European countries have the system whereby total votes per party are what matters not the winner take all model. The proper name escapes me......
Cheers
Al

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2011, 05:27:14 am »
Clinton balanced the budget by overseeing and giving the green light to some of the most blatant fraud and counterfeiting schemes of all time. The repeal of glass steagal, borrowing like mad from China along deregulation over the hugely reckless and criminal economic schemes of the wall street Gang, flooded the whole system with funny money which was used to cause the Clinton era economic boom. The problem with praising Clinton was that it was all smoke and mirrors and eventually the bubble burst, although it wasn't until he was out and another clown was put in.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 05:40:05 am by sabertooth »
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Offline raw-al

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2011, 05:31:59 am »
From my readings this was for the most part the machinations of Greenspan who had plenty of years to cook the books and deregulate the financial industry.
Cheers
Al

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2011, 05:53:21 am »
So Has the president become some token by-standard to allow the Financial elite to cook the books on his watch. They are all in league and on board with what went down.

I do like Clinton more so than the other puppets. He seemed to have soul and a was more of a free spirit.

I like what he said about Bonobos

...at Clinton's command, we visited the National Museum [in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia], which houses the bones of "Lucy," a hominid who lives more than three million years ago...as Clinton walked past some of the display cases he started talking about the wonders of the bonobo apes.

"They have the most incredibly developed social sense," he said. "When one of them makes a kill, they share the food, unlike all the other apes." And then, Clinton said, with a laugh, "they fall down to the ground and have group sex! It's a way of relieving aggression!" Such behavior, he said, "would drive the Christian right crazy!"
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2011, 06:58:06 am »
So Has the president become some token by-standard to allow the Financial elite to cook the books on his watch. They are all in league and on board with what went down.

I do like Clinton more so than the other puppets. He seemed to have soul and a was more of a free spirit.

I like what he said about Bonobos

...at Clinton's command, we visited the National Museum [in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia], which houses the bones of "Lucy," a hominid who lives more than three million years ago...as Clinton walked past some of the display cases he started talking about the wonders of the bonobo apes.

"They have the most incredibly developed social sense," he said. "When one of them makes a kill, they share the food, unlike all the other apes." And then, Clinton said, with a laugh, "they fall down to the ground and have group sex! It's a way of relieving aggression!" Such behavior, he said, "would drive the Christian right crazy!"
whale oil beef hooked
Cheers
Al

Offline wodgina

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2011, 07:19:04 am »
Don't know if charming equals free spirit.

Gold is pushing $1600 today. How are people here preparing for the depression?
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline laterade

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2011, 08:04:03 am »
Becoming friends with good farmers, while honing outdoor/natural living skills.
More so the former, for I don't think it is going to get that bad, but it could be necessary.
If I can keep drinking milk, then that is what I plan on doing.

Helping others understand and optimize bodily functions from a clear perception could also be a good investment.
I am easing into the yoga teaching world. My job now causes much more stress. This should help me and my clients.
Choose a lifestyle that makes you and others happy.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2011, 10:10:46 am »
Offloading toys. Simplifying needs. Looking at rural property for living.
Cheers
Al

Offline wodgina

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2011, 11:12:19 pm »
Will be interesting to see what happens to Italy's gold.
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline ys

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2011, 04:40:56 am »
nothing really, it'll be happily resting in the vaults. which vault does not really matter since national central banks are part of EU Central Banks system.  if it moves between those banks it does not affect anything as long as they are part of euro zone.   

Offline wodgina

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2011, 12:28:37 pm »
Big week coming up.

I think the next few years are going to be tough for those who are accustomed to welfare and cushy pretend jobs.
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2011, 09:35:41 pm »
I think we are all being subconsciously conditioned by the forces behind the curtain of mass media, to accept austerity and the decline of the standard of living. There is no reason that we should be having to worry about depressions and economic woe , if we could just get back to an honest money system. Its economic warfare being waged against the people of the free world. The nightly news programs are laced with propaganda that suggest that if the people don't go along with the solutions devised by the ruling class then wall street will crash and everything will go to hell.

Wake up people, the treasury has been hijacked and the financial welfare of us all is being held hostage by pirates. The new legislation will only give more and more money and power to the perpetrators of the heist

No one on the hill except for Ron Paul talks much about honest money. All the clever legislation, larceny and reconfiguring of debt in the world will do is just make the situation worse for the next generation. Both sides of the mainline debate have either been bamboozled into thinking that you have to cut spending or raise the debt ceiling; when in fact neither solutions being purposed will do squat to improve the situation. A return to honest money isn't even in the debate.
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline wodgina

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2011, 09:24:20 pm »
Gold hit $1717 today. Interesting to see what happens tonight in the US.

Find out in 10 minutes.

“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline Projectile Vomit

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2011, 09:56:50 pm »
Gold is flirting with $1700/ounce on NYMEX, DOW down 150-200 points. Yeah, after the US credit downgrade anything's possible. We live in interesting times...

As for my preparations, I'm simplifying my lifestyle, simplifying my diet, incorporating many cleansing ceremonies into my life to increase my psychological spiritual resilience. Personally, I think psychological and spiritual resilience is the greatest need for most people in the developed world. We have plenty of material resources, but they won't do any good if vast swaths of the population go apeshit at the first hint of turmoil.

Offline wodgina

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2011, 10:21:47 pm »
Not much has happened considering.

Can't imagine what it would be like in the states if things went ape shit. I think we would turn more towards traditional values. Maybe back to one income families, people getting married younger, families living together.

Preparations...not much, I've simplified things. Have small amount of cash. Invested in hard assets over the last few years so hopefully I can capitalise when things pickup (I would like to own/invest in a farm) Mentally prepared myself that things could get tougher. Stopped going out.



“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline ys

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2011, 11:37:55 pm »
a lot of people are hoarding guns and ammo just in case things go sour.  good thing we are not restricted in this regard.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2011, 09:34:18 am »
Just talked with a friend who buys and sells this stuff. Mostly for himself. He was talking about the money to be made on the upswing. There is always an upswing. People always wallow in the meltdown, but the people who pulled out, still have the money that they pulled out and will want to make money on it again. Some pulled their money out late last year and are waiting for this so they can get the bargains.

Some lose their shirts and some make a bundle. The glass is half full.

Runs on anything take on a life of their own. It becomes a crapshoot. All the prophets (including yours truly ;D sometimes) and gamblers come out of the woodwork.
Cheers
Al

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2011, 11:57:46 am »


When the deceit and greed of the haves is too great to be tolerated and the value of money gets too deluded then the people begin to lose faith and money then loses its power of incentive to keep the real producers on the hamster wheel of progress .

People now have the information and technology available that can emancipate us from the illusions of the fairness or necessity of our current system. The evidence of the outright fraud and larceny that's being perpetrated right now is too great not to be noticed(at least on some subconscious level ) by the masses of people who are now being forced to pay for it. We are all going be cursed into paying for the perpetration of the great crime, and if there is a successful resistance then we will be met with further financial terrorism.

Why have all the major news media outlets been seeding us with this doom and gloom after the whole bailout heist, while at the same time being universally deceptive as to the true cause and conditions behind the problems? Is it Conspiracy? Mass Ignorance?  

Those questions take me back to the original point which is that money is by nature an instrument of deception. Without all those sniveling lawyers, bankers, teamsters, gamblers, financiers, power brokers, politicians ,etc.; trying to cook the books and stack the deck in their favor at the expense of the honest man then the money they fabricated and lord over would probably just fall into even greedier and more barbarous hands.

So it seems that most people represented by what if left of democracy are left with some lousy choices when it comes to fixing the fiat situation. The only true debates that are going on in regards to monetary reform, among those with the power to have effect on the outcome, seem to be focused on propping up the old system while the fleecing of the people continues unabated. People need to start hedging their bets right now in the faith that an undercurrent of awakening is occurring and we can only hope there are enough good people out that can still band together and hold up against whatever fables of debt that has been branded upon us.

As much as I like to rant and rave about these things and get caught up in the drama of the day, It may be more helpful to encourage people to study the history for themselves, whats going on now has been going on for a long time the only difference now is that for the first time people like me( a poor working class peon) has access to information about the nature of money as well as snippets of information regarding the counterfeiting schemes that are being sanctioned by government. Much of what was once such a guarded secrete is now out there for all to see.(Although truth has been somewhat displaced by the sheer mass of bullshit that is being spewed by mass media outlets.) What I find comforting is that when you study the underground history you begin to realize that there where great minds of the past who had also ranted and raved about the same injustices.

Just read what Andrew Jackson had figured out by his own observations that were deduced generations before the rise of internet conspiracy.

Every man is equally entitled to protection by law; but when the laws undertake to add… artificial distinctions, to grant titles, gratuities, and exclusive privileges, to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful, the humble members of society -- the farmers, mechanics, and laborers -- who have neither the time nor the means of securing like favors to themselves, have a right to complain of the injustice of their government.

"Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves."                            

I am one of those who do not believe that a national debt is a national blessing, but rather a curse to a republic; inasmuch as it is calculated to raise around the administration a moneyed aristocracy dangerous to the liberties of the country.

If Congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given to be used by themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 12:53:36 pm by sabertooth »
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2011, 03:10:00 pm »
hmmmmm.......
Then the other point of view is that anyone has the ability to just opt out of the madness of the system by moving to a remote area and live off the land.
Cheers
Al

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2011, 03:36:51 pm »
Yes, I have sometimes entertained the notion of being a "wild man of the woods" with just a log-cabin in the forests. But I'd still have costs re electricity. I suppose if I had a farm, and just sold whatever animals I didn't need, it might work....
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2011, 03:44:02 pm »
I've also entertained the wild man in the woods thing. If you really did the wild man in the woods, you need nothing. There have been people ie the Japanese guy who stayed in the forest refusing to give up after WW2. Mind you, I heard there is  bit more to that story...

However there have been people who have done it. Every once in a while a story surfaces about one.

However it's a bit easier said than done.
Cheers
Al

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2011, 04:00:51 pm »
Yes, but the guy in question, I believe had to constantly raid Philipinno farms for food and killed 300 policemen etc. over the decades. Hiroo Onoda, I think it was..
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2011, 04:06:05 pm »
That's what I meant by "...there's a bit more to the story", although I hadn't heard about the 300 policemen part.

However I did hear that his story was not isolated. My understanding is that it is partly cultural in that giving up to some Japanese soldiers is not an option.
Cheers
Al

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2011, 04:27:39 pm »
He was willing to surrender but only to his commanding officer.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

 

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