100% grass-fed cheese

[Taste Sense]

I just got a hold of some 100% grass-fed cheese. I ate it and immediately felt better! Before I never had such reaction to cheese. I wonder if I should eat 100% grass-fed cheese more often. Or maybe I got opioid high from dairy, since I've avoided it for a while. Thoughts?

[Busgrw]

Hey TS, can I ask what brand you got? I've never tried it and would love to see if I could get some. Was it raw?

Cheers 

[goodsamaritan]

I just got a hold of some 100% grass-fed cheese. I ate it and immediately felt better! Before I never had such reaction to cheese. I wonder if I should eat 100% grass-fed cheese more often. Or maybe I got opioid high from dairy, since I've avoided it for a while. Thoughts?

May have something to do with B12 in cheese.
Do you get to eat clams, oysters and other shellfish?

[RawZi]

    Is it salted?

[PaleoPhil]

presumably a raw zero carb cheese, otherwise I think it would belong in the Weston Price or hot topics section

[Josh]

I vote for concentrated opiates. I can't see dairy as being good, from the effects it has on me.

[Taste Sense]

The cheese was raw and local and without a brand. Yes it was salted. I've yet to find unsalted version anywhere... Doesn't AV sell it? I really doubt the b12 had anything to do with it.  I think I get way too much b12 from raw grass-fed meats and organs anyway. And to follow up on my post, I was constipated for the next few days. The only dietary change I made was to include that cheese. So I guess, AV got that one right... I think I can live without constipation just fine. And the small euphoria I got from eating cheese faded by each bite anyway. Right now I am of the view that eating dairy is better than eating plants but not better that eating meats. And perhaps it's better to not mix the big 3 at all in one dietary regimen.

[Inger]

Yes,
I get constipated from raw cheese also. I eat it very seldom anymore. It also makes my mouth taste strange in the morning .

I would say, wild edibles are great, try them! They will not harm you in anyway, believe me (if you don`t eat the poisonus ones ) They do only good, really. From veggies I can get this stomachtroubles but from wild greens never. They are for free, and taste great! You don`t need much. Try lindenleaves, they are my favorite, and fresh mint from the garden also..mmm..
From veggies I eat only cucumber (organic), never got problems from that and it is so dehydrating and I love the taste!
Cucumber and wild edibles I can eat with raw meat without any problems.

Inger

[Tsurugi_Oni]

  I was just about to make a post on this!!

  I've been lactose intolerant since a little kid.  Because of that I've avoided all milk products for the last couple years.

  On a whim I got some raw aged cow cheddar to try on my low carb thang.  Lo and behold upon eating it I felt immediately better!!!  I'm talking within 5 minutes.  My sinus pressure cleared up, voice tone improved, and felt very happy and calm. 

  I've eaten about 3 pounds of cheese over the last 4 days and former acne from a fruitarian diet is still clearing up. 

  I was hoping to hear other people's experiences with raw aged cheeses. 

[PaleoPhil]

FYI Tsurugi: Tyler Durden is a moderator here at the Raw Paleo forum who considers dairy products and heated animal fats to be egregiously harmful foods, so your post and any other positive posts about either of those foods may trigger an oratorical whipping from him. Despite that, some here do eat raw dairy products, as you can see (though not me--but I might sample something if it's offered to me and I won't rule out possibly eating raw dairy products in the future). Other controversial topics in the forum include anything negative about raw fruits or raw honey. I'm not trying to discourage you from posting anything along these lines, just giving you a heads up about what might follow.

Technically, lactose-rich foods would be neither Zero Carb nor carnivore staples, but carnivorous hunter-gatherers might occasionally share some fermented milk obtained from a kill and some cheeses apparently contain little or no lactose and just because Stone Agers and modern hunter-gatherers didn't/don't consume much dairy doesn't prove that it's harmful to all, though technically it generally isn't considered Paleo .... blah blah blah moderator jabber consult your doctor insert additional legalese here and what not.  

[TylerDurden]

I found like many people that raw  cheese was just as deadly as other kinds of dairy and that it gave me extra constipation in a big way.

Topic moved to weston price diet forum since paleophil was against dairy discussions here on the rzc forum, a while back.

[PaleoPhil]

Tyler, here is what I actually said in a sticky in the ZC/Carnivore section--not hard to find:

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/carnivorous-zero-carb-approach/zero-carb-what-does-it-mean-and-are-there-alternative-terms/

ZC ... excludes carb-containing dairy products like milk and yoghurt.

Bear's original 7 milk-and-yoghurt-free rules that were still listed on ZIOH as of at least 07-20-2010:
http://forum.dirtycarnivore.com/index.php/topic,358.msg11532.html#msg11532
3) On diary (sic): avoid milk and yoghurt (heavy carbs- lactose), use only pure (not 'thickened'- heavy) cream (read the label), cheese and unsalted butter.

(emphasis mine)

So you see, my definition of ZC includes some forms of dairy products, just not the carby ones like milk, yoghurt, half-and-half, .... I don't recall ever saying that low-carb versions of cheese couldn't be considered as falling within the basic definition of ZC. Are you sure this isn't more about your vendetta against all forms of dairy?

The thread creator should be allowed to request that the thread be returned to the raw ZC forum if he wishes, as he didn't specify heated or carby cheese and we should give our members the benefit of the doubt.

[TylerDurden]

I was thinking of quite another thread in which you criticised the inclusion of dairy in the rzc forum.

[PaleoPhil]

I don't remember the post you're referring to and the forum sticky would be my ultimate current view, overriding any other posts, so please refer to the sticky on such questions and please note that I haven't changed it to remove all dairy. The current definition of ZC, both in that sticky and per Bear Stanley, and at ZIOH, last I heard, only excludes carby dairy, not all dairy.

[klowcarb]

Mmm, grassfed butter....

[HIT_it_RAW]

I don't remember the post you're referring to and the forum sticky would be my ultimate current view, overriding any other posts, so please refer to the sticky on such questions and please note that I haven't changed it to remove all dairy. The current definition of ZC, both in that sticky and per Bear Stanley, and at ZIOH, last I heard, only excludes carby dairy, not all dairy.

Would that mean that raw milks kefir is included? almost all lactose is fermented into co2 and alcohol.

[PaleoPhil]

If that's the case then I don't see why not. I wonder why I haven't seen the zero carbers talk about it. Katelyn, did you ever see it mentioned at ZIOH?

[klowcarb]

If that's the case then I don't see why not. I wonder why I haven't seen the zero carbers talk about it. Katelyn, did you ever see it mentioned at ZIOH?

On that nazi board? They found eggs to be carbs. Let us stop referring to ZIOH as being "zero carb" and more like "muscle meat only." It is not MY diet.

[HIT_it_RAW]

On that nazi board? They found eggs to be carbs. Let us stop referring to ZIOH as being "zero carb" and more like "muscle meat only." It is not MY diet.

than why arent they all dying from rabbit starvation?

[achillezzz]

than why arent they all dying from rabbit starvation?

LOL!

[klowcarb]

Most of them are overweight, and none of them are athletes really or look that good. Rabbit starvation is eating too much protein. That is not their issue. Their issue is fatty muscle meat only.

[Dorothy]

I just need to make a comment on this - one of my favorite topics - raw cheese and raw dairy.

Most raw cheeses are not raw. Most say they are raw because they use raw milk - but mean that they use unpasteurized milk to start but then heat it - usually somewhere between 160 and 190 degrees depending on the recipe. There are no laws on the definition of the word "raw" in labeling.

It's actually quite rare to find actual raw hard cheeses. Ah - but if you ever do you might change your mind about cheese. I get mine from a local raw dairy farmer that does not heat the milk AT ALL.  My husband who was horribly allergic to cheese eats it and feels great from it. I feel wonderful from it.

I also make my own quark cheese from raw milk from native grass-fed only Jersey cows. From this I get fermented butter. OH MY!

I've gone long periods with and without and none of these things give me constipation - if anything they make things move faster. I have never felt a negative side-affect.

Just my personal experience so far...........

It is really really hard to find the real good stuff though.

[PaleoPhil]

Most raw cheeses are not raw. Most say they are raw because they use raw milk - but mean that they use unpasteurized milk to start but then heat it - usually somewhere between 160 and 190 degrees depending on the recipe. There are no laws on the definition of the word "raw" in labeling.

Any tips on how to tell if cheese is really raw? By coincidence I bought samples of several different cheeses labeled "raw" from local "organic," "pastured" farms to compare.

[Dorothy]

Asking the farmer straight out is the best way to know Phil. Because I've done this enough and know the difference in how I feel when eating the unheated cheese and the stuff that is labeled raw but really not - I can tell if a cheese is actually raw after eating it for a little while. If it's not raw I don't feel so great - when it is raw I feel fine. The hubbie's nose is a good indicator too. He's lactose intolerant and if he eats heated cheese I can HEAR that it isn't raw. 

If you are getting the cheeses from a farmer - ask them if they use any heat at all in the making of their cheese. It's not necessary.

[cherimoya_kid]

Any tips on how to tell if cheese is really raw? By coincidence I bought samples of several different cheeses labeled "raw" from local "organic," "pastured" farms to compare.

Hard cheeses are generally cooked during the the actual cheesemaking.  The only exception would be a pressed-curd cheese, those are usually not cooked during the process. 

Even if a cheese is made from raw milk, it can still be cooked during cheesemaking, like mozzarella or most cheddars.