Avidin in raw eggs one more time

[p0wer]

or else what happens? Again, where's the evidence of harm? As was already pointed out to you, reductionist theory doesn't prove real world harm.

or else biotin becomes unavailable, and in time you get mild biotin deficiency.

[PaleoPhil]

or else biotin becomes unavailable, and in time you get mild biotin deficiency.

OK, here's another claim we can examine. Has anyone here been diagnosed with mild biotin deficiency from eating raw whole eggs? Power, what do you consider to be signs and symptoms of biotin deficiency so we can be on the lookout for signs of potential problems?

This so far seems to have been mostly hand waving to justify your cooking of egg whites. I don't see any major harm from cooking egg whites and you're free to eat whatever you wish, I just don't see a need to cook egg whites myself. How do you do it? Do you poach or soft boil the eggs or do you separate out the whites and cook them on their own? I tried that once and found they weren't tasty cooked alone without the yolks and it definitely wasn't worth the bother and mess to me.

[p0wer]

From wiki

Symptoms of overt biotin deficiency include:

    * Hair loss (alopecia)
    * Conjunctivitis
    * Dermatitis in the form of a scaly red rash around the eyes, nose, mouth, and genital area.
    * Neurological symptoms in adults such as depression, lethargy, hallucination, and numbness and tingling of the extremities.[3]

I eat the egg whites raw (I've never said cooked), and I'm not trying to justify anything for me Cooking doesn't deactivate avidin that much, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avidin#Inactivation_of_biotin_binding_activity

A 1991 assay for the Journal of Food Science detected substantial avidin activity in cooked egg white: "mean residual avidin activity in fried, poached and boiled (2 min) egg white was 33, 71 and 40% of the activity in raw egg white."
...
A 1992 study found that thermal inactivation of the biotin binding activity of avidin was described by D121°C = 25 min and z = 33°C. The study disagreed with prior assumptions "that the binding site of avidin is destroyed on heat denaturation", concluding that protein denaturation was not equivalent to loss of biotin binding activity.[18]

I tried that once and found they weren't tasty cooked alone without the yolks and it definitely wasn't worth the bother and mess to me.

Absolutely agree

[p0wer]

But I think it's still very unlikely that you'd develop such a biotin deficiency unless you eat really unhealthy. Egg yolks are for sure not the only source of biotin. What is more concerning in my opinion is the trypsin inhibition.

[PaleoPhil]

But I think it's still very unlikely that you'd develop such a biotin deficiency unless you eat really unhealthy. Egg yolks are for sure not the only source of biotin. What is more concerning in my opinion is the trypsin inhibition.

OK, so is trypsin inhibition your only remaining concern regarding raw egg whites? What signs and symptoms should we watch out for that might indicate it? Since you eat raw egg whites yourself, is it the case that you haven't experienced any noticeable negative symptoms as a result and you're perhaps just concerned that you might develop future problems from eating them?

[p0wer]

Future problems yes, protein putrefaction usually results in (neuro)toxins which get absorbed in the colon.

[PaleoPhil]

Per what evidence or experience does alleged egg white protein putrefaction produce this result and what are the symptoms? Since you specified "usually," which suggests more than 50% of the time, what is the source of this information regarding this frequency of occurrence?

[p0wer]

I don't know, I must have read it somewhere. Not egg white but putrefaction of any protein.
Either way, I'm not that interested in finding the hard evidence that will prove this to me or someone else.

[PaleoPhil]

I don't know, I must have read it somewhere. Not egg white but putrefaction of any protein.

Oh yeah, that's convincing. Did you check out those links I provided that refuted the claim? Whenever I've traced the sources they've always gone back to vegetarian myths. Besides, the vegetarians are invariably talking about COOKED meat when discussing alleged meat putrefaction build up in the colon and alleged harm from it, not RAW meat.

Either way, I'm not that interested in finding the hard evidence that will prove this to me or someone else.

If you're not interested enough in your own putrefaction claim to support it, then I'm not interested in taking it seriously.

[p0wer]

What did they refute? None of them talked about protein going by undigested due to decreased trypsin action.

Of course claims like "Humans can’t digest meat, it rots in the stomach/colon" (from the first link) don't make any sense if your digestive system is fine, I'm not saying anything related to that here.

This is from a pretty old book, probably some stuff are a bit wrong but it gives a pretty extensive overview
http://chestofbooks.com/health/nutrition/Diet-Theory/The-Putrefaction-Of-Protein.html

[blimpie]

There's no way to win an argument faster than by asking for references, lol. 

[achillezzz]

We have to solve this egg white egg yolk issue or threads like that will continue to appear . I personally feel fuller after eating whole eggs for much longer period and I am not that thirsty like when I eat only egg yolks. + egg whites aid in cell detox!!!

[PaleoPhil]

Of course claims like "Humans can’t digest meat, it rots in the stomach/colon" (from the first link) don't make any sense if your digestive system is fine, I'm not saying anything related to that here.

When does that claim make sense and where is the evidence that meat digests less well and rots more than grains and other seeds, legumes that are not edible raw and fibrous veggies in the healthy or damaged guts of humans?

This is from a pretty old book, probably some stuff are a bit wrong but it gives a pretty extensive overview
http://chestofbooks.com/health/nutrition/Diet-Theory/The-Putrefaction-Of-Protein.html

Is that the best you can do for evidence, an out-of-date book of vegetarian myths? As I said, all the sources of this rotting, putrefying meat (and egg whites) in the colon claim I've seen so far trace back to vegetarian myths and it appears that your claim is no exception. Even if the claim is true, it doesn't establish evidence of harm. I've seen scientific research findings of plant proteins causing harm in the gut, but not yet meat proteins. Bryce's speculations do not qualify as scientific evidence.

[eveheart]

From the link http://chestofbooks.com/health/nutrition/Diet-Theory/The-Putrefaction-Of-Protein.html, we read:

It is averred that these toxins are absorbed by the intestinal mucous membrane, and that they are the insidious cause of the most grave and fatal chronic maladies....

It is comforting to think, however, that nature has provided the body with many defences against this terrible risk of poisoning, the most important being the hydrochloric acid of the gastric juice...

Go back and read it yourself, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Bryce saying that meat doesn't turn to toxic rot because it is digested by acid in the stomach and small intestine?

Next, he says

it is significant that complete removal of the stomach is unattended by increased putrefaction - and the maintenance of the effective digestive capacity.

I read several of the chapters of Bryce's book, and I don't think he contradicts what I know to be true from my own experience, that the meat I eat digests well and doesn't leave me feeling toxic.

[Techydude]

So is it even beneficial to eat egg whites at all? Or is it just fodder? lol that's all I wanna hear out of this topic  

[Iguana]

It depends: it may be useful and it may be harmful - just like for everything !

[Techydude]

I hear its negligible in fertilized eggs and it wouldn't really matter since hunter-gatherers rarely found/ate eggs.

[Iguana]

hunter-gatherers rarely found/ate eggs.

How do you know that?

[TylerDurden]

Before the age of domestication, only wild birds' eggs were available so eggs would have been only rarely eaten and then  on a seasonal basis.

[Iguana]

Land and sea turtles eggs, iguanas egg's, swan's eggs, aepyornis'eggs, ostrich' eggs, etc must have been plenty before mankind proliferated and ravaged the environment.

[TylerDurden]

Land and sea turtles eggs, iguanas egg's, swan's eggs, aepyornis'eggs, ostrich' eggs, etc must have been plenty before mankind proliferated and ravaged the environment.

No, since wild animals laid such eggs only seasonally and usually in relatively inaccessible places such as cliff-faces, trees and the like. Only when chickens were domesticated were eggs available in quantity.

[Iguana]

At least sea turtles eggs are extremely easily accessible and you get not less than about 120 at once. Swans' eggs are quite big and easily accessible as well.
 

[HIT_it_RAW]

don't forget fish egss!! According to weston prices work they are one of the most valued foods by primitive races. They were even dried so they could be eaten year round.

[Techydude]

don't forget fish egss!! According to weston prices work they are one of the most valued foods by primitive races. They were even dried so they could be eaten year round.

You mean like caviar? I wish I could get some...anyone know any sources of them raw?

[sabertooth]

Country folks from where I live gigged frogs and eat polliwogs.
Early man would have certainly had access to frog eggs.