Why did you give up Vegetarianism/Veganism?

[PaleoPhil]

The below articles discuss a Website survey that asked why ex-vegetarians returned to meat eating. It's not scientific, of course, but it is intriguing. I thought I'd do a poll here and see how our results compare.

Interestingly, the ex-vegetarian interviewed for the Psychology Today article eats raw meats. Of course, the writer calls it "a bit extreme."

Why Do Most Vegetarians Go Back To Eating Meat? For most people, vegetarianism is temporary phase. Why?
Published on June 20, 2011 by Hal Herzog, Ph.D. in Animals and Us
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201106/why-do-most-vegetarians-go-back-eating-meat

Staci wasn't always so fit. In her early 30's, Staci's health started going downhill. After twelve years of strict vegetarianism, she began to suffer from anemia and chronic fatigue syndrome, and she experienced stomach pains for two hours after every meal. "I was completely debilitated," she tells me. "Then I changed the way I ate."

"Tell me about your diet now. What did you have for breakfast today?" I ask.

"A half pint of raw beef liver," she says.

Ok....Staci is a bit extreme in her carnivory -- these days she prefers her meat raw, and she eats a lot of it. But the transformation from hard-core vegetarian to meat-eater that Staci illustrates is surprisingly common. Indeed, according to a 2005 survey by CBS News, three times as many American adults admit to being "ex-vegetarians" than describe themselves as current vegetarians.

Most Vegetarians Become Ex-Vegetarians?
Posted by Tom Naughton
http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2011/06/30/most-vegetarians-become-ex-vegetarians/

[cliff]

For me it was because of a vitamin A deficiency.  I got crazy dandruff and started to get weird red bumps all over my forehead which went away almost overnight with vit A rich animal products.  I was probably borderline deficient in other stuff but the Vit A deficiency was the biggest tipping point.

[eveheart]

Vegetarianism "left" me after a long-term relationship. I made the vegetarian decision in my teens, but when I turned 50, I started craving meat. At first, I settled for an occasional chicken burger from fast-food restaurants. Then, I decided that home-cooked chicken and fish would be better than fast food. Eventually, I moved on to beef, too. And bacon!

Why did my body start craving meat? Probably these reasons: I needed more fat, and I needed meat, I needed less carbs, and I needed different carbs. For the last ten years, I have eaten cooked meats. In the last three months of RPD, I realize how much better I feel on raw meats.

I have many vegetarian/vegan friends, but we don't discuss these things.

[zbr5]

1) teeth problems
2) too skinny and sleepy and low energy
3) cravings for meat, cheating on this

I have many vegetarian/vegan friends, but we don't discuss these things.

The same for me. They think I am idiot, I think they are idiots so it is nothing good from discussing this things because noone is open-minded.

[goodsamaritan]

Malnutrition all the way without meat.

[Techydude]

I was always hungry and gasy...

[PaleoPhil]

Wow, so far health issues is even more dominant as a factor in dumping vegheadism here than at the original poll. I can relate. I tried vegetarianism and near-vegetarianism a few times and within a day I was feeling worse, within a weak I was feeling very weak, coincidentally, and crappy. I find I need those fat soluble vitamins found in animal foods. Vegheads say you have to suffer through the symptoms to come out OK on the other side after weeks or months, but I say why go through that hell when I instantly feel better when I eat animal foods and continue to feel better over the long run? Besides, I've lost count of the number of vegbrains who've abandoned it months or years later after the deficiency symptoms set in.

[raw-al]

I was healthy as a vege owing to my Ayurvedic knowledge which is independent of vege/meat diet. So I didn't give it up for a negative reason, more like an experiment after reading Aajonus Vonderplanitz books.

I am still healthy as a primal dieter, but there seems to be a bit of an improvement in things like;

teeth - no more problems,

skin - (as in what covers the bod) Spots seem to be slowly clearing, hard skin bumps seem to be disappearing,

Strength slightly more

Elasticity, definitely less now

Hair seems to be increasing substantially

Nails are definitely stronger (I play guitar)

Body seems to be better proportioned with no weight gain

Gas has disappeared

Hunger is not the same, more comfortable

Eat a lot less

Electricity bill has plummeted

Wife is happier with less cooking etc.

Food bill has skyrocketed

[goodsamaritan]

sky rocketing food bill... tell me about it.

[Techydude]

sky rocketing food bill... tell me about it.

Omg yes, I'd spend $60-$80 a week on lotsa organic veg to cook and expensive fish.

[RawZi]

    I had been vegan 99% of the time for nearly three decades.  I stopped and started raw primal diet by av; because I needed more health, strength and energy than I had had in over a decade.  It worked!  The change in my mind came two years before changing diet, realizing eating wild meat would be better for 99% of everything and everyone one.  I was so used to being vegan though, that I took a while to take that first actual bite to start my new path.

[HIT_it_RAW]

Omg yes, I'd spend $60-$80 a week on lotsa organic veg to cook and expensive fish.

Not so bad. If i would buy organic veggies and fish it would be at least 100euro a week, prob a lot more. Thats why i stick to beef muscle and organ(i can buy it in bulk) an non organic veggies. I treat myself some wild caught fish and organic fruit/veggies when I can affort it.

[HIT_it_RAW]

    I had been vegan 99% of the time for nearly three decades.  I stopped and started raw primal diet by av; because I needed more health, strength and energy than I had had in over a decade.  It worked!  The change in my mind came two years before changing diet, realizing eating wild meat would be better for 99% of everything and everyone one.  I was so used to being vegan though, that I took a while to take that first actual bite to start my new path.

Did you exeprience any detoxes when you went primal? I sure did but i eat sad(ish) before. I think (raw)vegan may be very cleansing but there are no building materials. So raw vegans have a clean catabolic body, rpd should be a clean anabolic body. So according to that theory (raw)vegans would experience less detox but very much anabolism.

[raw-al]

Forgot to add that sexual strength seems to be increased.

[raw-al]

I had been vegan 99% of the time for nearly three decades. 
I was so used to being vegan though, that I took a while to take that first actual bite to start my new path.

I was a 23 year cooked vege and I had never liked cooked meats that much previously.

A co-worker's son has been a vege since birth unlike his parents. As a baby and through his life, he refused to eat meat in any form. They couldn't disguise it at all. He just would not eat anything resembling meat, One of my nieces is the same.

We found the smell of meat in the kitchen/fridge to be revolting. Eating it was worse for quite awhile. We had to disguise the taste with sauces and still use ground pepper frequently, although the smell is OK now and I eat high meat occasionally.

[Projectile Vomit]

I tried raw vegan for a while, and since going raw omnivore my food bill has gone down. I eat mostly wild stuff, though (whitetail deer, wild edible plants, wild-picked fruit). The only thing I regularly buy is grass fed, grass finished cattle marrow and suet, and occasionally organs like heart, kidney, liver and glands.

[raw-al]

I tried raw vegan for a while, and since going raw omnivore my food bill has gone down. I eat mostly wild stuff, though (whitetail deer, wild edible plants, wild-picked fruit). The only thing I regularly buy is grass fed, grass finished cattle marrow and suet, and occasionally organs like heart, kidney, liver and glands.

I borrowed "Stalking the Wild Asparagus" from the library and plan to try some of what he/you are suggesting. This guy tells an amazing story of just going for a 1/2 hour walk and getting enough food for a meal for his family. No pesticides, etc and lots of variety and the stuff grew in it's natural habitat and it's immune system has been geared to operating in the same environment as his immune system (microclimate)

Even some garden flowers and plants are a good idea Tiger lilies, etc.

[RawZi]

Did you exeprience any detoxes when you went primal? I sure did but i eat sad(ish) before.

    I had been experiencing the worst constipation for the last seven years I was vegan.  It was embarrassing and I thought it could kill me.  My first primal detoxing came very welcome.  I was on and off the toilet successfully many times per day my first month.  It felt great, the whole thing!

[RawZi]

We found the smell of meat in the kitchen/fridge to be revolting.

    The smells of egg yolk and meat were so awful to me, more than those were egg white, honey, cheese, and butter.  I got used to all the smells except organ meats within a year.

[raw-al]

   I had been experiencing the worst constipation for the last seven years I was vegan.  It was embarrassing and I thought it could kill me.  My first primal detoxing came very welcome.  I was on and off the toilet successfully many times per day my first month.  It felt great, the whole thing!

Ayurved has simple solutions (pun intended   ) for that. Indeed one of the primary tenets of Ayurved is to take some of the many forms of laxatives (natural) at the end of each seasonal kala to get rid of the doshic buildup. It is much more effective and comfortable to do the process properly with a prepartion process of 3 - 4 days but not necessary.

Vegan can sometimes precipitate that problem especially if you are trying to or accidentally low fat. Most vegans need lots of fats such as ghee butter avocado etc. My Vaidya friend told me of one young girl who was in such bad shape that she could actually down a cup or more of ghee in one sitting.

I gave my ex a suggestion re cleansing with castor (blaster   ) in a very mild dosage (one, or two teaspoons). She was so stogged up that she spent about two hours on the porcelain telephone sending out Morse code. She actually filled the toilet a few times literally and had to flush. After that her appetite went from zero to sixty. Gone were the days of "oh I dont care when I eat lunch". Her tongue went from a slimy frothy white to clear pink in a few days. Her breath improved and she was more awake. I know that since we parted ways she is back to her old eating habits and has become grossly, sickly, rotund. Her family are all nice people but bad news SAD eaters. It affects her moods also but alas you can lead a horse to water, but you can't ...................

Depression, fatigue, anger and anxiety are all typical, but not only result of this type of diet lifestyle. My guess is that you could eliminate the vast majority of meds people take just by doing a simple cleansing occasionally, no matter what they eat, but probably less on a primal or raw Paleo diet, as the food hasn't been mangled by cooking. Pancha Karma would become wildly popular if people knew about it. But alas people think a magic pill is the only safe solution.

BTW the best way to eat raw eggs is to poke two holes in it and suck out the contents. No mess no smell and the contents mix up a bit so the flavour is more even.

[RawZi]

Ayurved has simple solutions (pun intended   ) for that. Indeed one of the primary tenets of Ayurved is to take some of the many forms of laxatives (natural) at the end of each seasonal kala to get rid of the doshic buildup. It is much more effective and comfortable to do the process properly with a prepartion process of 3 - 4 days but not necessary.

    Herbal laxatives only made me painfully gassy at best.  One got some out, but resulted in feeling so sick for months that the doctors believed it was from cancer or multiple endocrine gland failure.  I know you're trying to help vegans and vegetarians who read this to stay vegetarian while hopefully helping them with their constipation.  I know you're not attacking me.  Even so, I will say there was no other way for me.

Vegan can sometimes precipitate that problem especially if you are trying to or accidentally low fat. Most vegans need lots of fats such as ghee butter avocado etc. My Vaidya friend told me of one young girl who was in such bad shape that she could actually down a cup or more of ghee in one sitting.

    I tried every way of vegetarian diet except cooked eggs or rennet containing cheese.  Albeit the vegetarian parts didn't last long, I stayed vegan for the bulk of it.  So, I did try plenty of avocados etc.

I gave my ex a suggestion re cleansing with castor (blaster   ) in a very mild dosage (one, or two teaspoons). She was so stogged up that she spent about two hours on the porcelain telephone sending out Morse code. She actually filled the toilet a few times literally and had to flush. After that her appetite went from zero to sixty. Gone were the days of "oh I dont care when I eat lunch". Her tongue went from a slimy frothy white to clear pink in a few days. Her breath improved and she was more awake. I know that since we parted ways she is back to her old eating habits and has become grossly, sickly, rotund. Her family are all nice people but bad news SAD eaters. It affects her moods also but alas you can lead a horse to water, but you can't ...................

    I tried a castor plaster.  It softens things up enough that a colonic after got some stool out.  Because of it I felt nauseas for months after.  I tried colonics.  Nothing would move.  It was a sticky mess.  One time a couple of small ball shaped turds came out after much trying by one of the colonic irrigationists' series.

Depression, fatigue, anger and anxiety are all typical, but not only result of this type of diet lifestyle. My guess is that you could eliminate the vast majority of meds people take just by doing a simple cleansing occasionally, no matter what they eat, but probably less on a primal or raw Paleo diet, as the food hasn't been mangled by cooking. Pancha Karma would become wildly popular if people knew about it. But alas people think a magic pill is the only safe solution.

    I never get constipated at all by raw primal diet foods by av, plus they form my body well and better.  I tried the doctors' Rxed to me fiber meds too, no help at all to say the least.    

BTW the best way to eat raw eggs is to poke two holes in it and suck out the contents. No mess no smell and the contents mix up a bit so the flavour is more even.

    Yes I do that sometimes now.  I think av says it's healthier when eating a egg to eat the white then the yolk.  It does work well as for convenience food.  It also help my bowels.

    As I just finally told my son today, I believe eating raw paleo uses less resources of the Earth than any type of vegetarian does.

[raw-al]

Hi RawZi,
Making suggestions on the web is of course fraught with danger as the likelihood of misinterpretation is higher.

Laxatives and purgatives come in a wide variety of forms. Herbs is one. Some herbs sold in health food stores and therefore likely, but not necessarily self-prescribed, can be bad news, particularly if taken over a period of time as you discovered and as the expression one man's meat is another's poison... The Ayurvedic texts describe 600 from trees alone if my memory serves me. Taken in different forms

If the issue has a drying component such as dry gassy, constipation, then the solution would involve one that is liquid and include more liquid and oils in the diet. That's why you do so well on raw meat. It is very liquid, slimy etc.

My experience was that non-raw cheese was instant constipation. I used to be blissfully unaware that I was constipated chronically before I discovered Ayurveda. My diet was not great.

When I said castor "Blaster" it was actually a joke as castor tends to cause one to "blast" out.....

A castor "Plaster" is of course where you put a cloth soaked with castor oil on your belly or wherever you want it and then put a hot water bottle etc over that to allow the oil to penetrate the skin and make it into the affected area to help clean out the body. I observed someone use this system once. The person was not constipated in the dried out, hard sense. It was very a mild cleaning. I think that it was suggested by Edgar Cayce in one of his readings.

I have been told that colonic irrigations can be extremely drying to the interior of the colon due to the substances used. I do not mean to infer that this is true in your case. Ayurveda prescribes oils and nutrients as part of any Basti (enema) as well as a specific massage to prepare for the enema.

Typically but not always (depending on the person) in Ayurveda the castor is prescribed following a multi day buildup taking certain oils (generally ghee) first thing in the morning which slows hunger, lubricates the GI tract and softens any "stuff" that is collecting in the colon.

There is a whole technique to taking Castor effectively which includes the preparation, timing, bath, diet for days before, during and after as well as preparations to take with the castor to make it more effective with less griping. I started to write it out and then realized what this might precipitate.

BTW I hope I do not sound preachy as I am not intending to, just a further description of what I said. I certainly do not wish to minimize the depth of your discomfort. It's easy to sit in the gallery and be a know it all. That is not my intention. I am very aware that you went through a very uncomfortable period of time but the great news is that you figured out your answer. Others will learn from your story.

Once again RPD seems to be the answer.

[The King of Currumpaw]

Didn't feel like wolf.

[RawZi]

Making suggestions on the web is of course fraught with danger as the likelihood of misinterpretation is higher.

    Both the suggester and the suggestee may misinterpret on the web.  It can be very important to be clear, if we want everyone to learn.

Laxatives and purgatives come in a wide variety of forms. Herbs is one. Some herbs sold in health food stores and therefore likely, but not necessarily self-prescribed, can be bad news, particularly if taken over a period of time as you discovered and as the expression one man's meat is another's poison... The Ayurvedic texts describe 600 from trees alone if my memory serves me. Taken in different forms

    Yeah, for me it was one small cup of prune juice once and no other day dose of it for a long time before or ever again after.  It released too many toxins in my colon that they sent me to a hematologist for a bone marrow biopsy.

If the issue has a drying component such as dry gassy, constipation, then the solution would involve one that is liquid and include more liquid and oils in the diet. That's why you do so well on raw meat. It is very liquid, slimy etc.

    Nope, oils don't help me at all.  I tried them.  They just burn me and make me freeze and a bunch of other unpleasant stuff.

My experience was that non-raw cheese was instant constipation. I used to be blissfully unaware that I was constipated chronically before I discovered Ayurveda. My diet was not great.

    I was vegan for a long time during that time.  As a matter of fact, around the few instances I ate cheese, I got no constipation or any stool change.

A castor "Plaster" is of course where you put a cloth soaked with castor oil on your belly or wherever you want it and then put a hot water bottle etc over that to allow the oil to penetrate the skin and make it into the affected area to help clean out the body. I observed someone use this system once. The person was not constipated in the dried out, hard sense. It was very a mild cleaning. I think that it was suggested by Edgar Cayce in one of his readings.

    Yes, I had to drink colorful root juices for several days prior.  I don't like nausea.  Never gonna do this again. Months of 24/7 nausea, if can be avoided, that I will do!  Raw butter on the primal diet seemed to absorb all my colon toxicity and clean it out safely without the toxins hurting me and in relatively very little time (less than a month).  He uses peanut oil for it?  I think maybe aajonus used to too, but now there's no good peanut oil on the market.

I have been told that colonic irrigations can be extremely drying to the interior of the colon due to the substances used. I do not mean to infer that this is true in your case. Ayurveda prescribes oils and nutrients as part of any Basti (enema) as well as a specific massage to prepare for the enema.

    The colonic series of three didn't even get anything out and couldn't really get much in. I was stopped up.  Drink warm water or put warm urine in a bulb syringe.  Works much better in this case.  Lightly steamed dark greens or raw blended standard organic green salad also works better for it.  Believe me, I had "real" bricks.

Typically but not always (depending on the person) in Ayurveda the castor is prescribed following a multi day buildup taking certain oils (generally ghee) first thing in the morning which slows hunger, lubricates the GI tract and softens any "stuff" that is collecting in the colon.

    Ghee clogs my ears.

There is a whole technique to taking Castor effectively which includes the preparation, timing, bath, diet for days before, during and after as well as preparations to take with the castor to make it more effective with less griping. I started to write it out and then realized what this might precipitate.

    I had no griping.  The colonic actually went well, I was very pleased.  Afterwards however made me nauseas for months.  I did her whole protocol for the colonic, it was nice.  Maybe it was problematic I left the "plaster" on longer than prescribed.  Also she liked silver nitrite, maybe I should have bought some.  RAFD works though, why should I go back to complication?  That's what I don't need and why I found this.  It gets expensive and sometimes hard to find and in the end it doesn't help the toughest cases enough.

BTW I hope I do not sound preachy as I am not intending to, just a further description of what I said. I certainly do not wish to minimize the depth of your discomfort. It's easy to sit in the gallery and be a know it all. That is not my intention. I am very aware that you went through a very uncomfortable period of time but the great news is that you figured out your answer. Others will learn from your story.

    Yes, too many years and time of being sicker than many people ever get.  If you don't let it kill you, then you learn some real lessons, it's how you get out the other side.  Wonderful clicking in your own brain, epiphanies and hard lessons, better than all the books and lessons, and I make it just for me.

Once again RPD seems to be the answer.

    Yes, like many others.  They go through so many illnesses of their own and health theories till they get to the ultimate that works best that they need.