Detox from Ground beef?

[CuredMeat]

So I'm easing my way into the raw meats.  I've mostly been doing fish, but last night I had some ground beef that was grass fed, not previously frozen.  I didn't sleep well last night.  Not sure if this is a detox symptom or not.  Usually I associate crazy dreams/nightmares with detox.  This wasn't really a crazy dream night though... I woke up, felt a little nauseous... it was a feeling I associated with eating bad food before bed.  I thought I was going to get sick... I didn't, I just didn't sleep that well the rest of the night (and felt a little anxious).  I'm not particularly tired today (maybe the raw foods are giving me more energy)... But my stomach doesn't feel great... not bad, just not quite relaxed and in order.
So I'm wondering if this is a detox symptom or possibly if it was bad meat (not sure if people believe in "bad meat"... but there could be some sort of toxin on the meat, right?)... I know it's hard to tell as everyone's detox symptoms will be different.  I have more of the ground meat I'm debating about eating today.  I'm also juicing... some green juice, but also carrot and cucumber.  Perhaps the juicing is what's causing the detox symptoms?

Just wanted to throw this out there and get some opinions... think it's ok to stick with this batch of ground beef?  Are people eating a lot of ground beef and is there a difference between the ground and other cuts? 
Thanks!

[TylerDurden]

I personally found, early on in the diet, that ground/minced meat digested less well than meat in chunks - don't know why, exactly.

There has been a lot of concern among Primal Dieters re the issue of veggie-juices:- for one thing mixing veg and meat together in the same meal is not a good idea re food-combination rules(they require different types of stomach-acid) but also veggie-juice contains antinutrients, so that, if one drinks them too regularly, they tend to cause problems.

Other than issues with raw dairy/coconut-oil and the like(to which I'm allergic), I have had the occasional digestive upset with raw meats - these generally occurred, though, due to mistakes on my part such as eating aged, raw meat which I hadn't left exposed to the air on a regular basis, or eating too much raw meat at one time. I'm not discounting the notion that it's a particular batch which is at fault, though. I take it, it's 100% grassfed?

[CuredMeat]

I believe it was 100% grassfed (I didn't ask about the 100% part because I assumed when the label said grassfed, it meant completely... but I'll check next time). 
I ate a little more of the ground beef this morning and no ill effects yet.  But I only ate a little because I just couldn't get it down (I'm still finding the raw meat really unpalatable... the flavor is bland which I'm fine with, but I can't get used to the texture at all... I know it's social conditioning, but I can't seem to shake it). 

I don't mix my juices with my meats... but I should probably cut down on the juices.  So many people (even non-primal eaters) seem to have done well with juicing (even though there are obviously plenty who haven't) so I thought I'd give it a try and see how I do with it. 

Is there a link discussing the anti-nutrients in vegetable juices?  Have only read a little about that.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Satya]

I believe it was 100% grassfed (I didn't ask about the 100% part because I assumed when the label said grassfed, it meant completely... but I'll check next time). 
I ate a little more of the ground beef this morning and no ill effects yet.  But I only ate a little because I just couldn't get it down (I'm still finding the raw meat really unpalatable... the flavor is bland which I'm fine with, but I can't get used to the texture at all... I know it's social conditioning, but I can't seem to shake it). 

I find steaks and fish fillets much more palatable than ground mixes, personally (even after a year eating mainly rvaf).  The texture is rather iffy, isn't it?  It is also a process of reacquiring taste, I believe.  Try sliced steak with a sauce of your liking.  I now refuse to eat any steak cooked to any degree.  Hang in there!

[TylerDurden]

To get round the social conditioning, you could try marinating raw animal food in (raw, organic)freshly-squeezed lemon-juice as happens with ceviche(raw fish). The texture of the resulting raw animal food is, apparently, much like cooked-food.

[TylerDurden]

Re antinutrients:- There's no specific link about the antinutrients in vegetable-juices, it's mostly anecdotal from posts on other forums.However, there is plenty of information on the Web about the antinutrients present in raw, solid vegetables(eg:-

http://www.youngerthanyourage.com/13/plants.htm

)

The idea is that juicing solid vegetables breaks down the indigestible cell-walls and thereby makes the nutrients in the solid vegetables more bioavailable, but the antinutrients in the vegetables are also made more accessible that way as well. In addition, juicing allows one to consume far more in the way of vegetable-matter(and far more of the harmful antinutrients within the veg) than would be possible if one just ate raw, solid vegetables, instead - raw vegetables are, mostly, rather bland and tasteless(eg;- raw broccoli/raw kale) and it would not be possible to match the amounts that would, otherwise, be juiced each day, in liquid form. Plus, those who juice routinely add sweeteners such as raw honey, raw cream or raw eggs in order to improve the taste/appetite.

[wodgina]

Sounds like my detox.

Usually at night with some crazy dreams. My brother also got exactly the same detox as me. Try some more of the ground beef, you'll be fine!

It will stop after a couple of weeks, it's very rarely the meat, your only just starting out so your likely to be worried about it being off/bacteria etc. (it just doesn't happen)

Don't worry about ground meat, I've eaten about 300 kgs in the last 2 years! It's tasty, easy to chew and almost always cheaper.

Good luck and keep it up.

[goodsamaritan]

I personally have not found a reason to grind my beef.
In the markets where I buy freshly killed beef, you just ask the butcher a slice of how many kilos.

As for detoxing, I never experienced detox using food.
I have experienced bad food: polluted oysters and polluted mussels, made me puke and poop.

I used herbal detox protocols:
http://www.curemanual.com/detox-protocols

By the time I added raw animal foods to my diet I was already fully detoxed and had already done raw vegan and raw fruitarian.

I'm just sharing.  Maybe my experience will help you.

[wodgina]

.

Other than issues with raw dairy/coconut-oil and the like(to which I'm allergic)

Rant starting.I think coconut oil is not food but plant poison! high in salicylates and other nasties.

I will never touch that stuff again, I followed the 'guru' Bee Wilder's advice on taking this stuff as an anti-fungal. It maybe anti-fungal but it's also anti-homo sapien. I'm a little annoyed at some of the advice thrown around by these 'all knowing wise guru's' even when the anecdotal evidence starts to stack up. Rant ended.

[goodsamaritan]

Rant starting.I think coconut oil is not food but plant poison! high in salicylates and other nasties.

I will never touch that stuff again, I followed the 'guru' Bee Wilder's advice on taking this stuff as an anti-fungal. It maybe anti-fungal but it's also anti-homo sapien. I'm a little annoyed at some of the advice thrown around by these 'all knowing wise guru's' even when the anecdotal evidence starts to stack up. Rant ended.

I think you need "virgin coconut oil."  This is the raw version, cold pressed.
"coconut oil" just by itself is the cooked version.  I personally do not touch this unless I see my herbalist make it herself.  But VCO is just superior, most herbalists today just buy cold pressed VCO and add in their herbs to make it more potent.
Maybe you were sold the cooked "coconut oil."

Yes, "virgin coconut oil" is anti-fungal / anti-candida and works pretty good. 
See http://tinyurl.com/vcodetox

It is always possible that someone is allergic to something.

[TylerDurden]

Andrew's right, coconut oil, even raw, contains lectins, salicylates and other antinutrients which cause problems for some people. I've also had digestive problems after eating coconut oil(which was 100% raw, cold-pressed etc.)

[wodgina]

I think you need "virgin coconut oil."  This is the raw version, cold pressed.
"coconut oil" just by itself is the cooked version.  I personally do not touch this unless I see my herbalist make it herself.  But VCO is just superior, most herbalists today just buy cold pressed VCO and add in their herbs to make it more potent.
Maybe you were sold the cooked "coconut oil."

Yes, "virgin coconut oil" is anti-fungal / anti-candida and works pretty good. 
See http://tinyurl.com/vcodetox

It is always possible that someone is allergic to something.

It's 100% organic, cold pressed virgin coconut oil. Supposedly produced within one hour of opening the actual coconut.

Coconut has the highest level of salicylates out of the vegetable oils.

I'm not anti coconut oil some people can handle it. It just hurts my guts and I instantly want to get it out of my body (throw up/diarrhea) It does kill candida because I've used it topically and it definitely works. I would take care prescribing it internally to sensitive individuals. I think 'herxheimer candida die off' from coconut oil is often confused with allergic reactions to the VCO, I knew the difference and stopped taking it.

Since eating almost 99% raw carnivore I've become more in tune with my body and notice allergic reactions, of which I've always had, I just did not notice them because I thought they were normal bodily sensations and I was overwhelmed by the shear number of allergens.

Cheers

[coconinoz]

just as from a cow's, goat's, ewe's, camel's, buffalo's, donkey's udder: from a coco-nut people may get milk, cream, butter, yogurt, cheese

&, who knows, perhaps coconut opiates the brain as much as dairy does?

[Furion]

What's the difference between coconut cream and coconut oil?

I am just beginning this way of eating and for the last 5 days for breakfast I have been having 6 raw eggs + 1 lime juiced + 1 tbsp of cold pressed sesame seed oil.  My muscles just have had no energy for kickboxing when I go to the gym.  I think I must be detoxing or something.  I don't have all my raw meat/dairy yet so I had some bread and butter an hour b4 the class so I thought I would be alright.  I've been feeling tired too.

Anyone else experience this when they first started?

[RawZi]

What's the difference between coconut cream and coconut oil?

I am just beginning this way of eating and for the last 5 days for breakfast I have been having 6 raw eggs + 1 lime juiced + 1 tbsp of cold pressed sesame seed oil.  My muscles just have had no energy for kickboxing when I go to the gym.  I think I must be detoxing or something.  I don't have all my raw meat/dairy yet so I had some bread and butter an hour b4 the class so I thought I would be alright.  I've been feeling tired too.

Anyone else experience this when they first started?

    Coconut cream you make fresh.  Coconut oil is the fermented enzyme-free end product. 

    Sesame oil is on the Primal Diet?  Did AV recommend it to you?  What kind of bread?  How often?  What kind of eggs?  What are the limes for? Have you done any green juices or unheated honey?

[Furion]

    Coconut cream you make fresh.  Coconut oil is the fermented enzyme-free end product. 

    Sesame oil is on the Primal Diet?  Did AV recommend it to you?  What kind of bread?  How often?  What kind of eggs?  What are the limes for? Have you done any green juices or unheated honey?

Thanks for clearing that up.

Nah I know bread isn't part of the diet, I wont have all the primal diet foods until this weekend though

I got AV book a few days ago..soon ill be fully fledged primal diet.   I know this is for me. Yeah I have a juicer for green juice and I found a place to get unheated honey which is good.

The eggs are free range that havent been refridgerated.

Apparently limes help loosen everything up, and the raw fats are used by the body and they carry toxins out too like AV says.
http://www.curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=180601&s=1#i1 

That thread is what got me learning about the primal diet.. it has the stuff about limes too.

[Furion]

Interview with AV:

"You recommend the use of stone pressed oils (heated below 96 deg F) in our diets. You state that they should not be eaten with vegetables, as in a salad. Please explain the benefits of the oils and why the mixture with vegetables is harmful?

Cold-pressed-below-96 deg F oils mainly provide solvents for detoxification. - They may also be made into any fats as fuel, lubrication and chelation, but not much. - These oils are chiefly cleansers.

The combination of vegetables (leaves, stalks and roots) and cold pressed oils is most often inadvisable. Vegetation in the human digestive tract is mainly undigested. It would take at least one more stomach, 2 1/2 times more length of digestive tract and 60,000 times more of the enzymes that disassemble cellulose to derive much protein and fat from vegetables. If you put cold-pressed oil, without being premixed with raw vinegar, on vegetables the oil coats the vegetables and further reduces the digestibility of the vegetables."

taken from http://life-enthusiast.com/index/Articles/Vonderplanitz/All_Raw_Primitive_Diet