I just ate my first steak in 20 years - what should I expect?

[Dorothy]

That's right, the highest up on the food chain I've eaten for the last 20 years has been raw fish - and extremely infrequently at that - and not large servings and I have gone a decade without it and then the other 10 years I could go many months without it. I've been eating raw eggs regularly for a year or two now - because I got my own chickens so trust the quality.

As I re-introduce meat into my generally raw diet, what should I expect? My stomach is now making some pretty outrageous sounds that I haven't heard in a very very long time. Is that normal?

Has anyone else here done similar or can guess what might happen?

I am very healthy so no issues there to consider.

My first meat meal was lightly seared steak.

Are there things that are easier to start with that you can suggest for me?

Btw, I don't want to eat animal species that live with us - dog, cat, rabbit, chickens. Not that most people eat dog or cat - but it is common in other cultures. I am willing to eat insects if I can figure out ways to prepare them that I can tolerate. I understand that they are very healthy to consume and I have raised many of them to feed pets.

Thanks in advance for any help/advice you can give me.

[TylerDurden]

There are always certain issues:-

1) Many ex-raw  or ex-cooked vegans experience digestive issues when they start to  re-cinroprorate animal foods. Similiarly, people who go RZC generally find they get digestive issues when they re-incorporate plant foods into their diet. This is normal as animal foods and plant foods require entirely different bacteria and enzymes to digest them, so that it takes time to re-add in the necessary bacteria/switch to the right enzymes  so as to adjust to the different foods in the diet.

2) Switching from raw to cooked, or worse, being partially raw/cooked inevitably causes issues as raw and cooked foods require different digestive processes etc.. For example, I used to be able to happily swallow dozen of croissants into my mouth in my pre-raw, cooked-food-eating days, but a few months after going rawpalaeo, I found that I secreted far less mucus in my throat so that I had to wash down every mouthful of dry croissant with a drink of mineral water, in order for it not to stick in my throat. Similiarly, I would produce much less stomachg-acid after going rawpalaeo, which made it problematic when I consumed cooked foods at times, as the latter required more stomach-acids to properly digest them.

[Dorothy]

Thank you Tyler. That was very useful information. You say that plant foods and meat need different enzymes and bacteria. Does this mean that I should not eat raw greens with my steak in the future? Do you eat only meat at one meal?

[TylerDurden]

Thank you Tyler. That was very useful information. You say that plant foods and meat need different enzymes and bacteria. Does this mean that I should not eat raw greens with my steak in the future? Do you eat only meat at one meal?

Yeah, keeping animal and plant foods separate is a great idea- at least 30 minutes inbetween, preferably more.

[PaleoPhil]

It all depends on a lot of individual factors, like the enzymes and bacteria, as Tyler mentioned, amount of stomach acid, health of your GI tract (such as the epithelial cells, mucosa and smooth muscle tissue), immune system functioning, metabolic functioning, hydration and so on. So we have little way of knowing how you'll be affected in the short term, so maybe start out slow and don't panic if things don't go swimmingly at first?

I enjoy eating meats and greens together and don't notice any problems from that, but YMMV (your mileage may vary). One factor to consider is that it is known that mixing fats and carbs increases the reward value of foods, which can trigger increased consumption, and thus might be a concern for anyone who doesn't want to add any body fat. I've noticed that the more successful dieters tend to eat either low carb with moderate to high fat or high carb with relatively low fat, but there are exceptions in between, of course.

[Dorothy]

So we have little way of knowing how you'll be affected in the short term, so maybe start out slow and don't panic if things don't go swimmingly at first?

Well, so far so good Phil. I felt better from the steak than I do from any processed food. So far better to eat a raw steak than to eat say a vegetarian burrito (even without the beans).   We will eat any carbos first and wait awhile at least just for the beginning until we have things down and know that it isn't an issue... and I promise not to do one of those: "but I tried it for lunch and it didn't make me feel good so it must be all bad" moronic dances for you.

I've noticed that the more successful dieters tend to eat either low carb with moderate to high fat or high carb with relatively low fat, but there are exceptions in between, of course.

That's interesting. The whole 80/10/10 folks being super thin even with lots of calories. My problem is that I could never figure out what high fat was if we're not talking eating mostly suet. I mean, I would think that I was eating TONS of raw fat with my butter and avocados and eggs and milkshakes and seeds and then I would go out to a restaurant and see deep fried cheese, covered in cream, wrapped in fat fried coating with a fried egg on top - all dripping and think to myself - compared to what most Americans eat my high fat raw diet is chicken feed.   

But I never care two hoots about my size. If I feel good, I am good - and I pretty much always feel good. 

[Tsurugi_Oni]

  No way!!!     

  Ohh I wonder the outcome!

[Dorothy]

  No way!!!     

  Ohh I wonder the outcome!

Ha ha ha. Yes way.

But then TO - you have had a tremendous influence on me. You have no idea how you have changed my thinking with your persistent darn logic! Ecology and agriculture and all your arguments you devil.    Talking to so many vegans and vegetarians who were so incredibly self-righteous and judgmental of others had its effects over time too. When the people that are being the least violent, hostile and angry towards other people and are the most stable are eating raw meat it can make a big impression. I became slowly convinced that maybe all the benefits came from the other things that people were not eating - and perhaps had nothing to do with meat in general itself - if eaten in it's natural raw form. I watched many people start or continue to do all raw vegan or fruitarian over time talking and watched the changes. It was a bit shocking. I'm still not convinced that I in particular need to eat meat, but, I also wonder the outcome! I've gotten curious and this thing with the  hubbie as the massive push - will also satisfy a curiosity. I want to know how it will affect my energy, my emotions and my spiritual work. I might not need it to feel good or even great - but will it effect me badly in any way? 

[PaleoPhil]

I became slowly convinced that maybe all the benefits came from the other things that people were not eating - and perhaps had nothing to do with meat in general itself - if eaten in it's natural raw form.

Bingo!

[Dorothy]

I don't know how I missed it - but I just found Tyler's stickies for newbies.

How generous and kind to do all that work and post it for us! Thank you Tyler. 

[RawZi]

My stomach is now making some pretty outrageous sounds that I haven't heard in a very very long time. Is that normal?

    My first beef in over a couple dozen years was freshly store ground 100% grass-fed I think 20% fat beef.  I had recently tried fully raw sustainably harvested salmon with its skin no prob.  After the beef that night I had a horrible nightmare.  I never get those (or more like once in thirty years).  I have many theories why it happened.  I am even more careful now about beef and grinding.  Seared like you did it I'd get an arthritis-like attack and other inflammation.  Every person is different.

[Dorothy]

   Seared like you did it I'd get an arthritis-like attack and other inflammation.  Every person is different.

I thought that pan-seared might be easiest for my husband to adjust to, but now I'm not so sure. I mean it was the closest to what he normally ate - yet it was different enough and tough enough that it wasn't exactly appealing to him.

Ground meat from the store - no way! No wonder you had nightmares.

I'm thinking that what I need to do is get my husband into ideas for sauces. He's a master at making sauces.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

  Dorothy - What does your husband normally eat that pan-seared would be tough enough that it lost its appeal??  Maybe it was the cut of meat???  There are a few cuts of beef that are too tough to be enjoyable raw and are only enjoyable if eaten braised. 

  Lex Rooker, an iconic raw carnivore who comes from one of the greatest health challenges that I've ever read about, doesn't really notice much of a difference between lightly seared meats and raw.

  I personally don't notice much of a difference between raw and medium-rare beef.  Raw meat is awfully hydrating though and for that reason alone I find raw meats very desirable. 

  On a cow the best value cut IMO is the Chuck Roast.  Best value for the most fat, tenderness, flavor, and price.  On a lamb the best value cut is the shoulder.  Amazing marbeling, as tender as any beef tenderloin, great flavor and great price.  Fyi =]

 

[PaleoPhil]

Ground meat from the store - no way! No wonder you had nightmares.

I've been eating mostly ground grassfed meats from local markets for years now with never a headache or other problem as versus unground cuts of meat. I find ground meats to be easier to digest and a little less constipating and they are also cheaper, so they work for me. As always, YMMV.

[Dorothy]

I saw a program on ground meat on television that made me have nightmares without ever eating it! They showed how ground meat came from all different animals and because that would be a breeding ground for bacteria because if only one cow was sick all the ground beef would be contaminated they would soak it all of it in ammonia! 

Of course getting it from a vendor you know and trust and if you see them grind it right in front of you would be different I would think - but there's no way I'm eating ammonia soaked anything.

[Dorothy]

  Dorothy - What does your husband normally eat that pan-seared would be tough enough that it lost its appeal??  Maybe it was the cut of meat???  There are a few cuts of beef that are too tough to be enjoyable raw and are only enjoyable if eaten braised. 

  Lex Rooker, an iconic raw carnivore who comes from one of the greatest health challenges that I've ever read about, doesn't really notice much of a difference between lightly seared meats and raw.

  I personally don't notice much of a difference between raw and medium-rare beef.  Raw meat is awfully hydrating though and for that reason alone I find raw meats very desirable. 

  On a cow the best value cut IMO is the Chuck Roast.  Best value for the most fat, tenderness, flavor, and price.  On a lamb the best value cut is the shoulder.  Amazing marbeling, as tender as any beef tenderloin, great flavor and great price.  Fyi =]

 

I have a feeling that you were right TO and that it was just not a good cut - I wasn't used to buying meat. I have to learn all about cuts. The man at the farmer's market told me that it was really great and I believed him - and now I can't even remember what on earth it was!  I'm going to get myself a little notebook to take to the farmer's market with me and take notes on vendors and cuts etc. and how we like them. This is a totally new area of knowledge that I have no experience in and that I do not even know the language of. The first thing to go in my notebook is your suggestions on cuts.

What about bison raw? There are a few really good bison ranches. Shape Ranch in San Antonio has these things on its brochure that are so cool. They let the bison live with minimal interference on native grasses and don't wean or take the calves away so that the bison have a secure herd and the animals are field harvested. They come to the farmer's market I go to and I got hubbie some bison before and he liked it - so time to try it raw. They say that it's real important not to cook bison too much - so it might be really good raw. Bison are what our ancient ancestors were eating - unlike the cows that have been so changed from the even recent past. What bison part do you think we should try?

[PaleoPhil]

I saw a program on ground meat on television that made me have nightmares without ever eating it! They showed how ground meat came from all different animals and because that would be a breeding ground for bacteria because if only one cow was sick all the ground beef would be contaminated they would soak it all of it in ammonia!  

That's CAFO supermarket ground beef, not at all like the super high quality stuff I buy. I buy only the best available in the healthfood markets and I've never had a problem with it. From eating raw my taste buds and nose have become quite sensitive. At work I can smell when the guy in the next office out of my sight gets a cup of French vanilla coffee and tell him the flavor he bought and if I've been out and walk by a half hour or more after he has consumed it I can still smell the odor in the air from that little cup of coffee (and if I tell him, he responds with a WTH? how did you know look LOL).

Even before I went raw I had a sensitive sniffer. When I worked as a bank teller I could tell, from behind the security glass, when a smoker walked into the bank (without any cigarette, as smoking in the branch was prohibited), via the door on the other side of the branch, without looking up to see. I also like guessing the ingredients in coworkers' hot meals. There's no way anyone is sneaking ammonia by me, believe me.

[Tsurugi_Oni]

Bison is spectacular, my absolute favorite red meat hands down.  Here's a quick rundown on bovine cuts.  I would probably stick to this list.  Anything outside runs the risk of a very dry, tough, lean, or unappetizing cut.  As a rule on any animal the muscle that gets worked the least is the most tender (tenderloin usually), and any muscle that gets worked a lot is tough.  Tougher cuts of meat are also the most flavorful by far.

  Chuck Roast / Tri-tip - I already told you about this.

  Tenderloin / Filet Mignon- Extremely lean but extremely tender.  Not much flavor.  Unless paired with a strong sauce I would forget it.

  Strip steak - Extremely tender, fatty, cooks tender, and has tons of flavor.  In terms of asthetics my favorite cut.  Premium though.

  Porterhouse / T-bone - The only difference between these two are the size of the "good section".  This steak is 2 steaks in 1 ; a strip steak and a filet mignon.  Good compromise between tender and flavor.  Cooks tender.

  Flat Iron - Very fatty,tender, and flavorful.  Best used eaten raw -> medium rare.  

  Brisket - Generally only suitable for slow cooking, braising, or super quick frying.  Can get dry quite easily.

  Skirt steak - Extremely fatty and flavorful.  Meltingly tender if raw or quick seared but very tough if cooked well done.

  Cheek meat - Unbelievable flavor but tough.  Only suitable for braising.  One of the best cuts of meat to braise.  Lots of collagen in there too!!

  SHORT ribs (has to be "short") - Extremely fatty and flavorful but pretty tough.  Do not mistake for just plain ol "beef ribs".  It's a good cut if you don't mind gnawing on meat like a dog lol.  Extremely good braised.

  Shank - Mildly tough raw yet good flavorful.  Not particularly fatty at all.  Good for braising.

  For a staple cut I use chuck roast or a decently priced skirt steak.  For a premium tender cut choose the strip steak / strip loin or porterhouse.  

  I personally think the chuck roast, cheek, and short ribs are only cuts worth braising.  

[Dorothy]

"At work I can smell when the guy in the next office out of my sight gets a cup of French vanilla coffee"


Ah - Phil, I remember when all raw for awhile I smelt a grapefruit that had fallen and broken 3 blocks away when walking in NYC!

I hear ya, I hear ya! It's about the quality. I gotta get grasfed and use my sniffer! Will do, will do. Thanks!


On a similar note I made my butter yesterday and there was an incredible smell of PLASTIC coming out of my food processor. Weird. I made my milkshake and it was awful.    Then I made my dog her's and she wouldn't eat it! I realized duh! that's the first time I left the milk in the fridge for a couple of days before making the quark in the plastic bottles instead of putting it directly into my "cauldron" for fermentation.

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to eat the stuff. 

I'll use the snoz!

[Dorothy]

Bison is spectacular, my absolute favorite red meat hands down.  Here's a quick rundown on bovine cuts.  I would probably stick to this list.  Anything outside runs the risk of a very dry, tough, lean, or unappetizing cut.  As a rule on any animal the muscle that gets worked the least is the most tender (tenderloin usually), and any muscle that gets worked a lot is tough.  Tougher cuts of meat are also the most flavorful by far.

  Chuck Roast / Tri-tip - I already told you about this.

  Tenderloin / Filet Mignon- Extremely lean but extremely tender.  Not much flavor.  Unless paired with a strong sauce I would forget it.

  Strip steak - Extremely tender, fatty, cooks tender, and has tons of flavor.  In terms of asthetics my favorite cut.  Premium though.

  Porterhouse / T-bone - The only difference between these two are the size of the "good section".  This steak is 2 steaks in 1 ; a strip steak and a filet mignon.  Good compromise between tender and flavor.  Cooks tender.

  Flat Iron - Very fatty,tender, and flavorful.  Best used eaten raw -> medium rare.  

  Brisket - Generally only suitable for slow cooking, braising, or super quick frying.  Can get dry quite easily.

  Skirt steak - Extremely fatty and flavorful.  Meltingly tender if raw or quick seared but very tough if cooked well done.

  Cheek meat - Unbelievable flavor but tough.  Only suitable for braising.  One of the best cuts of meat to braise.  Lots of collagen in there too!!

  SHORT ribs (has to be "short") - Extremely fatty and flavorful but pretty tough.  Do not mistake for just plain ol "beef ribs".  It's a good cut if you don't mind gnawing on meat like a dog lol.  Extremely good braised.

  Shank - Mildly tough raw yet good flavorful.  Not particularly fatty at all.  Good for braising.

  For a staple cut I use chuck roast or a decently priced skirt steak.  For a premium tender cut choose the strip steak / strip loin or porterhouse.  

  I personally think the chuck roast, cheek, and short ribs are only cuts worth braising.  

Just what I needed!
OK - I should get for eating raw and not cooking (I think I want to skip it and go straight to raw never having cooked meat before):

Staple:
Chuck
Strip steak
Premium:
Porterhouse
Strip loin
And also good are:
Flat Iron
Skirt steak

I will memorize this list! THANK YOU!

[Wolf]

Top sirloin is my favourite steak to eat raw, out of the steaks I have tried.. but as for the 100% grass-fed steaks, there isn't much choice, I have only seen top sirloin, flank, and rib-eye.  For some reason I hate the taste of the rib-eye, and it tastes slightly rotten to me, but I can't seem to handle high meat anymore.  Fresh top sirloin, while still all red and no brown, tastes amazing to me eaten raw.  The flank was just okay.  I haven't tried any of the other steaks grass-fed.

[HIT_it_RAW]

I dont know how the cuts translate to the dutch names so can't tell you right now which cuts I eat. However I order my grassfed beef in bulk and get a bit of every part of the animal in the same ratio it is in the animal. So lots of cheap cuts and little expensive cuts. Some are very tough some extremely tender. I hate the overly tender ones (premiun cuts) I like to chew on the meat.

@Tsurugi_Oni 
Whats with that list? you recommend cooked on most cuts. I like all cuts better raw and besides this is a RAW forum. In fact I think most her focus even more on the raw than on the paleo aspects of the diet.

[eveheart]

I quit vegetarianism after four decades because my body signals were unmistakable. I had to learn the cuts of meat, and I'm still confused when it comes to names like New York steak and porterhouse. It took another ten years for me to find raw paleo. Bison is great, if you have a reliable source. I had always assumed that bison was grass-fed, but I came to find out that it can be grain-supplemented, so ask direct questions. As Wolf mentioned, many grass-fed beef retailers carry only a small selection of cuts. I, too, like top sirloin the best.

Don't overlook lamb. Most of my meat intake is lamb, and mostly loin cuts, plus lamb liver.

[klowcarb]

I just eat raw grassfed ground beef or bison every day. Easy and delicious.

[Dorothy]

Thanks so much everyone for chiming in on your favorite cuts! It's majorly helpful.

HIT you said: In fact I think most her focus even more on the raw than on the paleo aspects of the diet.

You're right about that for myself. It wasn't until I could get good raw eggs that I started eating them - they do me good when cooked eggs just aren't the same and when it came to dairy I was researching a cancer cure for my dog and learned about Budwig. They said that in the US they use regular cottage cheese. Well, my dogs eat all raw so I figured I'd try the cottage cheese mixed with flax on myself and boy did it make me feel sick. But then when I got good raw milk and fermented it correctly it was just fine for me. When it comes to me I'm assuming just like with all other foods - that I will be better off if I eat it raw. If I have to stay strong enough and not get sick so that I can keep on helping my husband then I might be better off seeing if I can figure out ways that both of us can do it together and jump hand-in-hand into eating the good meats - me staying well by not eating cooked stuff and him being able to handle the idea and him NOT being a raw foodist like me he might detox more and be more sensitive.

I think TO because he knows more about me and my husband, realizes that I might have chosen to gradate him into raw meat more gradually. So far I've learned ways to make him feel more secure about raw fish by using whey and citrus and have gotten him to eat raw eggs by using them in sauces - unlike me who just eats the yolks out of my palm.

My husband is an amazing chef  and I'e been slowly talking him into cooking better grass-fed meats for himself. This is a big shift me doing it with him now.... and a big shift in that I think he needs to just leap into raw foods for the sake of his health faster than I would have subtly tried to convince him of before.

I'm very respectful of other people's choices of food for themselves. Me being willing to eat steak after 20 years just for him made a major impression as you can imagine and if I'm willing to do that - he is willing to try a lot for me. So, raw meat it is going to be for the both of us now because I am convinced that he needs lots of excellent raw fats!

The only exception is that I might try a long slow cooking bone stock for him until I can get him to eat just plain bone marrow. He might have to watch me eat bone marrow for a while before he's willing to try it - but I think he needs those minerals now.