After 2,169 lectures to more than 60,000 students in 170 schools in 29 states, t

[bharminder]

After 2,169 lectures to more than 60,000 students in 170 schools in 29 states, there is no doubt that Gary's presentation is the most powerful, informative and passionate speech ever conducted about ethical veganism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=es6U00LMmC4

runtime length : 1 hr 10 mins

[magnetic]

If I were in that class I would have asked him if he were a breatharian. If he were a breatharian I would respect his point of view, at least.

He doesn't offer a convincing case for animal liberation at all. He never explains adequately why animals have rights, because he cannot. Animals can neither make claims nor have others make claims (in a guardian role, as in parent/child). That is why animals are treated in law as property and not persons.

[Dorothy]

He's preaching to the choir with me and yet he starts out with religion saying "thou shalt not kill" but has no idea what that means cuz I don't think he read the bible. When Moses came down off the mountain he immediately ordered the execution of thousands of people because they were worshiping a statue of a calf. The word originally used in the bible and translated to "kill" obviously was quite different than the way we use the word kill today. The jews were never vegetarians and obviously thou shalt not kill doesn't even apply to not ordering executions of humans it seems - let alone animals. 

He also comes across angry and hostile immediately. I have always deeply disagreed with and disliked these kinds of lectures even when a vegan and a vegetarian and always having been an animal lover.

I couldn't get past such a lame beginning. Is there anything better later on worth watching for?

[bharminder]

I liked it a lot...even though that religious argument didn't work in his favor in terms of the reasoning at all, since many religious books mention using animals for food.

I also sensed his hostility and anger....and although I didn't like it, I think his ability to speak clearly the whole lecture very concisely and to the point was aided by that hostility...like he was channeling that anger into what he was doing. He mentions having been arrested several times. As somebody who has gotten in trouble once in my late adolescence, I can somewhat relate to the frustration from the dominance of the law, which can sometimes uphold unjust laws.

[sabertooth]

I still cant take him seriously, considering that for the first 25 years of his life he ate animals.

If he was born to a vegan mother and raised vegan then I doubt he would have grown to be as energetic or be able to speak as "intelligently" as he seems to be.

Is there a outstandingly healthy vegan out who was conceived by vegans and was raised completely vegan after being weened from the breast?

Show me that example of vegan perfection along with proof that its sustainable trans generationally then I may be willing to take that guy seriously.

In order to prevent the suffering of animals he would sicken the whole human race.

[janjan23]

: "These are the animals which you may eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat, " 

 Deutoronomy 14: 4

[raw-al]

I still cant take him seriously, considering that for the first 25 years of his life he ate animals.

If he was born to a vegan mother and raised vegan then I doubt he would have grown to be as energetic or be able to speak as "intelligently" as he seems to be.

Is there a outstandingly healthy vegan out who was conceived by vegans and was raised completely vegan after being weened from the breast?

Show me that example of vegan perfection along with proof that its sustainable trans generationally then I may be willing to take that guy seriously.

In order to prevent the suffering of animals he would sicken the whole human race.

I know lots of multi-generational vegans. There are lots in the world. I was one for 23 years and was quite healthy.

I didn't watch his vid but from comments here I surmise that he said that "Thou shalt not kill is a law of God". Hmmmmmm so when you pull a carrot out of the ground you are not killing it. What about the infanticide involved with mindless eating of apples? Or the horror of skinning a potato alive?

Man lives off of life. living things are our food and the animals around us do the same.

My understanding of veganism (cooked) or should I say that my justification for it was that veges and grains have a lightening effect on the body. In other words if you eat a lot of them you will be lighter because they tend to not make you as fat as eating meat (cooked). This lightening effect is beneficial for spiritual growth. To me all the rest of it nonsense.

So now I see the virtue of raw food so I am content to eat a primal diet. Does not mean I will for ever, just until I see a better way.

[sabertooth]

I know lots of multi-generational vegans. There are lots in the world. I was one for 23 years and was quite healthy.

So you know of vegan grandmothers who weened their children onto a vegan diet who had vegan children of their own who where perfectly healthy vegans.

Come on: I know they had to have a little animal foods somewhere along the line.

[cherimoya_kid]

So you know of vegan grandmothers who weened their children onto a vegan diet who had vegan children of their own who where perfectly healthy vegans.

Come on: I know they had to have a little animal foods somewhere along the line.

Yeah, I call major bullshit on that, too.

Even if there are some, they're like what I call the "one living canary"...if you have a hundred canaries in a coal mine, to detect poisonous gases, and 99 of them suddenly die, guess what?  The fact that 1 lived doesn't mean shit to me.  I'm getting out of the mine.

[raw-al]

So you know of vegan grandmothers who weened their children onto a vegan diet who had vegan children of their own who where perfectly healthy vegans.

Come on: I know they had to have a little animal foods somewhere along the line.

My Indian friend has eaten one piece of fish in his life. He was a teenager and he was curious. He was raised a vege by his vege parents/grandparents etc in a lineage that goes way the heck back. He's quite healthy and robust.

There is a substantial portion of the world's population that is vege. Partly for religious reasons and partly for economic reasons.

And an even larger (I suspect) who are economically obliged to be partial veges. Meat ain't cheap.

[sabertooth]

I have compassion for the fact that poverty has forced many in to adopt a vegetarian lifestyle.

I sometimes forget about how the peasants of Asia are more adapted to utilize rice and lentils because of generations of meat scarcity , though I think that many of them still use dairy.

Are you sure that your friends family eat no animal food what so ever?


They may live healthy lives up to a point , but I doubt that they are robust by the Olympian standard.

[raw-al]

Are you sure that your friends family eat no animal food what so ever?

They may live healthy lives up to a point , but I doubt that they are robust by the Olympian standard.

Absolutely positively, unquestionable certain. They won't even eat cake/risen bread with egg used as part of the recipe.

They are not Olympic atheletes. I have a few friends/relatives who were Olympic athletes, but they ate cooked SAD. Of course nowadays they would include chemistry in their diets.

Are you an Olympic hopeful?

[cherimoya_kid]

My Indian friend has eaten one piece of fish in his life. He was a teenager and he was curious. He was raised a vege by his vege parents/grandparents etc in a lineage that goes way the heck back.

There's a biiiiiig difference between vegan and lacto-vegetarian, my friend.  And don't claim that Hindu vegetarianism is veganism.  It's not.  Even most Jains eat dairy.

[raw-al]

There's a biiiiiig difference between vegan and lacto-vegetarian, my friend.  And don't claim that Hindu vegetarianism is veganism.  It's not.  Even most Jains eat dairy.

Aha! Ya got me!

You're right he does eat ghee and a small amount of other dairy but he has a lot of Kapha so dairy plugs him up, so he avoids it somewhat, but he does consume it.

I have a tendency to count dairy as vege but you're right. It's kind of in a no man's land between meat and potatoes.

[TylerDurden]

There was some vague mention online about a raw vegan sect/tribe in Iran which survived fine because they, unlike raw vegan westerners, always used human excrement as fertiliser for their plants and did not wash their plants before consumption. Thus they got their vitamin B12 via the manure, and probably ate any insects already inside the plants.

[raw-al]

There was some vague mention online about a raw vegan sect/tribe in Iran which survived fine because they, unlike raw vegan westerners, always used human excrement as fertiliser for their plants and did not wash their plants before consumption. Thus they got their vitamin B12 via the manure, and probably ate any insects already inside the plants.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but where would their protein come from?

My understanding is that vegetarians typically get protein from various types of beans which have to be cooked to break down the poisons in them.

I have difficulty believing that the insects in plants would give sufficient protein to live on, unless they were religious people who were not of this world, ie monks.

[TylerDurden]

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but where would their protein come from?

My understanding is that vegetarians typically get protein from various types of beans which have to be cooked to break down the poisons in them.

I have difficulty believing that the insects in plants would give sufficient protein to live on, unless they were religious people who were not of this world, ie monks.

No idea, I thought that the protein in some plants was usable. No wait, it was foolish for me to suggest they were raw vegan, they were just vegans.

[raw-al]

I cannot imagine how anyone could be a raw vegetarian (no dairy) or fruitarian, but apparently there are some.

But then there are breatharians.

[cherimoya_kid]

No idea, I thought that the protein in some plants was usable. No wait, it was foolish for me to suggest they were raw vegan, they were just vegans.

A.T. Hovanessian was/is a raw foodist in Iran, but he happened on raw veganism on his own.  David Wolfe apparently plagiarized large portions of Hovanessian's book for Wolfe's first book.  Hovanessian was born in the 20th century, so there's no tradition or tribe, just him and, I suppose, some followers.

[magnetic]

Aha! Ya got me!

You're right he does eat ghee and a small amount of other dairy but he has a lot of Kapha so dairy plugs him up, so he avoids it somewhat, but he does consume it.

I have a tendency to count dairy as vege but you're right. It's kind of in a no man's land between meat and potatoes.

I know a "vegan" who is not completely insane. It turns out that she eats ghee "because Ayurveda says it has healing properties" and she will eat fish if she catches it herself, which happens when she goes camping in the summer. After I discovered that she did in fact eat fish and dairy, I understood how she could still be healthy eating so much birdseed.

[magnetic]

I cannot imagine how anyone could be a raw vegetarian (no dairy) or fruitarian, but apparently there are some.

But then there are breatharians.

There are those that claim to be breatharians but I believe it is complete BS. Breatharianism = fasting. And long term fruitarians, likewise, are either lying about what they eat or do not have the health they claim to have.