Cancer

[LePatron7]

By B17 do they mean amygdalin?

Basically, the terms laetrille, amygdalin and Vitamin B17 are used almost interchangeably.

[Dr. D]

I have yet to meet someone who actually cures their cancer with B17. Could you describe their situation and how it worked for them in more detail?

The little brother to my best friend in high school had cancer from a very young age. His parents were more willing to trust that God could provide things in nature to heal and they didn't treat him with conventional methods of chemo, radios, etc. They told me ( and I believe them because of the great relationship we had) that he had been eating a few apricot seeds a day and his cancer went into remission. This is all before they even considered diet to be enough to destroy cancer outright and still ate basically SAD. Not full on refined grains every meal, but well close. However for as long as i knew them they only ate their own farm grown meat (goats, pigs, sheep, etc) so that may have been a large contributing factor in his recovery also, regardless of raw or keto.

My dad also healed cancer through a very painstaking process of near vegan (~20% meat, 40% veggies, 40% fruit, no refined sugars) and a handful of supplements: MMS mixed in with DMSO for uptake into cancerous area, IP6, Shark cartilage, some apricot kernels but very few due to western medicine convincing him it prevents the blood from receiving enough oxygen, and many more. I think he was taking about 20 supplements on top of a few different drink mixes that he'd combine with juice. It was no where near "natural" but at the time it seemed like it would "give the body a lot of nutrition and heal it." Sugar and fiber and cooked proteins and fat can destroy cancer with a few other supplements. Imagine having the diet right, I can see the supplements being entirely unnecessary.

I can speak from experience in this, that cancer is NOTHING compared to healing schizophrenia. Cancer is our government creating fear to motivate people to waste their money on becoming more sick. Like it "just happens" with "no explanation as to why" but they are so sure they can beat it.

Also, my dad went down to M.D. Anderson in Houston, TX to get more doctors' opinions on his cancer options and while there he looked at all the other patients being treated with chemo, radiation, and he said "they looked like jews at a holocaust concentration camp, and they were paying to be there".... talk about perspective huh? Cancer alone would never cause that kind of sickness in someone. You know they (Nazis) told the Jews that they were going to be cleansed when they sent them into gas chambers? It really breaks my heart to know that cancer can be battled quite easily (with the right motivation towards getting healthy and conviction in the face of the govt.) yet people see it as this big invisible enemy that the govt is working tirelessly day in and day out to cure, when in reality they have no motivation to really cure cancer (they can't with drugs anyways, it'll just come back) as long as a chemo treatment costs half a million USD.

[Alive]

Here is the outrageous story of a provider of apparently useful alternative cancer therapies being driven out of business and jailed by a conspiracy of corrupt FDA, DoJ, competitors, and scammers.

Along the way he provides very interesting and detailed information on various alternative cancer therapies, and describes how profit motivates our modern culture to discard useful traditional knowledge.

There are six chapters online, which make for very compelling reading:
http://www.meditopia.org/chap1.htm

[raw-al]

I wasn't going to say anything ,but I saw two references to Schizophrenia so I will suggest this :
http://ehealthforum.com/health/niacin-treatment-for-schizophrenia-t314742.html
I have read this in a # of places and it is neither raw nor paleo and I do not know if it works.

[Dr. D]

I wasn't going to say anything ,but I saw two references to Schizophrenia so I will suggest this :
http://ehealthforum.com/health/niacin-treatment-for-schizophrenia-t314742.html
I have read this in a # of places and it is neither raw nor paleo and I do not know if it works.

Hmm I guess it's worth a shot because Niacin isnt really that "dangerous" as far as giving yourself time to adapt and getting over the flush. My bro went through narconon (awful place) and did sauna with Niacin in doses that were intended to flush every time, if he didn't get a flush he got more niacin. This "vitamin therapy" is very scientology based. Ron L. Hubbard seemed to believe that forcing "good" into the body could drive out the "bad" and he prescribed this kind of detox for a drug addict.

From a post:

3 g niacin
600 mg pyridoxin
50 mg zinc
200 mcg selenium
600 mg calcium
300 mg magnesium
10 000 IU vitamin D
2 g L-methionine
2 g vitamin C

Read more: Schizophrenia Forum - Niacin treatment for Schizophrenia. http://ehealthforum.com/health/niacin-treatment-for-schizophrenia-t314742.html#ixzz2VAs0tOih
Follow us: @ehealthforums on Twitter

honestly half the stuff in there negates itself out or just runs out of the system in urine... not even counting the material the vitamins are coming from. Vit c can be in many forms and all different forms affect uptake, just like all other nutrients.

[PaleoPhil]

...it is neither raw nor paleo and I do not know if it works.

You've topped yourself, Raw-Al, that's the least enthusiastic recommendation I've yet seen in the forum.

[LePatron7]

I wasn't going to say anything ,but I saw two references to Schizophrenia so I will suggest this :
http://ehealthforum.com/health/niacin-treatment-for-schizophrenia-t314742.html
I have read this in a # of places and it is neither raw nor paleo and I do not know if it works.

Niacin is very effective for schizophrenia. In fact my healing journey never would've gone anywhere if it hadn't started with the niacin. The niacin got rid of the negative symptoms I was having.

Other things that help

Clean diet - raw paleo
Clean water
Toxin avoidance
Thyroid health

[raw-al]

 

You've topped yourself, Raw-Al, that's the least enthusiastic recommendation I've yet seen in the forum.

Well you see someone talked me into trying it. I read up about it on the net and have done 4 days and am up from 500 mg to 1750 so far. Some people say it;'s a great idea is all I really know.

But wow do you ever have one big bejeesely hot flash!!! 

I know some guys who are schizophrenic and I know some of the drugs they use are not pretty, so I thought I would suggest it.

[goodsamaritan]

electrical / energy / magnetic / remote healing is BIG. Super Big.

Electricity is BIG and we may need to start a thread on the entire electrical thing.
We are not living optimal paleo electrical / magnetic environment.

[PaleoPhil]

But wow do you ever have one big bejeesely hot flash!!! 

What does that mean? Sounds cool! 

[goodsamaritan]

The use of vitamin B17 is just another tool in curing people with cancer and other illnesses.
Only a fool of a neophyte healer will depend on one single item for healing.
That is why healing is supposed to be "holistic".
And why "studies" on single variables to cure cancer are pointless.

[raw-al]

What does that mean? Sounds cool! 

Niacin is something that apparently we get in our foods naturally but if you are lacking it due to your diet etc. then supplementing it can be good. It has an effect on cholesterol. (As you may be able to tell I am not an expert on the subject.)

So if a person has plenty in their system or needs no additional then when they take it they will get what is known as a flush even with a low dosage.

The flush is like the feeling you would get if you stood naked on a boat on the ocean in midday sun in a tropical climate for a few hours. You get very hot and red as if you had a sunburn, in other words. Then not long after you get itchy which if you give into is never ending. Or so it seems.

For those who have low systemic levels you would not get the flush till higher dosages. So the idea is to start with say 100 mg and work up as high as I believe 6000 mg for some. In case anyone believes they are superman, I suggest a bit of caution here.

My wife wanted to go the hospital emergency and wound up with a few day headache. (She has a liver issue) You see I did not know better so I started with 500 mg and  it didn't phase me at all.

For some people with heart problems, arthritis or Schizophrenia it is a Godsend.

I heard people talking about it on another group.

The use of vitamin B17 is just another tool in curing people with cancer and other illnesses.
Only a fool of a neophyte healer will depend on one single item for healing.
That is why healing is supposed to be "holistic".
And why "studies" on single variables to cure cancer are pointless.

Well said! Best to prevent in the first place, but if a person is faced with it, then hit it from as many angles as you can. Something will stick.

[PaleoPhil]

Cure Cancer With The Ketogenic Diet! Elaine's Remarkable Story
Thanks for the link, LittleElefant.

Löwenherz

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/carnivorous-zero-carb-approach/cure-cancer-with-the-ketogenic-diet-elaine's-remarkable-story/msg106692/#msg106692

Thanks to LittleElefant and Löwenherz for this amazing cancer success story.

I tried an apricot seed. It looked like an almond and tasted like a bitter almond. Interesting.

[LePatron7]

I tried an apricot seed. It looked like an almond and tasted like a bitter almond. Interesting.

I've never had a bitter almond. I've heard conflicting reports (just like with apricot seeds). Mainstream says it's toxic and can kill you, B17 supporters claim it's great.

[PaleoPhil]

I meant it tastes like an almond that's bitter. I haven't tried a wild bitter almond.

This article contains a chart of cyanogen content:
http://www.foodsafety.govt.nz/elibrary/industry/Cyanogenic_Glycosides-Toxin_Which.pdf

It looks like apricot seeds have about 1/5 the amygdalin content of bitter almond. Presumably the dose makes the poison and safety depends on the dose plus the context of the health of the person eating the seeds or nuts (such as glutathione level--the master antioxidant--which helps in detoxifying the amygdalin). I've seen extreme views on both ends of the spectrum, with some people worrying about the amygdalin in apple seeds and others believing that amygdalin is not toxic at any dose (which isn't true of any food).

[raw-al]

I meant it tastes like an almond that's bitter. I haven't tried a wild bitter almond.

This article contains a chart of cyanogen content:
http://www.foodsafety.govt.nz/elibrary/industry/Cyanogenic_Glycosides-Toxin_Which.pdf

It looks like apricot seeds have about 1/5 the amygdalin content of bitter almond. Presumably the dose makes the poison and safety depends on the dose plus the context of the health of the person eating the seeds or nuts (such as glutathione level--the master antioxidant--which helps in detoxifying the amygdalin). I've seen extreme views on both ends of the spectrum, with some people worrying about the amygdalin in apple seeds and others believing that amygdalin is not toxic at any dose (which isn't true of any food).

The amygdalin content in an apple seed is very low. So low that you would have to eat an enormous amount to have a negative impact. Where would you get that many apple seeds. However it does negatively impact cancer cells from what I have read elsewhere. It compromises the surface of them and so kills them.

http://chemistry.about.com/od/healthsafety/f/Do-Apple-Seeds-Contain-Poison.htm

http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/apples.asp

[Dr. D]

This is the reason I have always figured fruit seeds to be eaten alongside the fruit. Animals don't discriminate against the seeds and often they are broken down by stomach acids when chewed. Not always so, but still.

I have never heard of a 'bitter almond' ... Is that an actual classification? And apricot seeds not only taste like an almond that's bitter, when left in your mouth for a few minutes, it will make them go numb. Flavor tip for drinking it down, use milk or the apricot fruit itself. Delicious.

[raw-al]

This is the reason I have always figured fruit seeds to be eaten alongside the fruit. Animals don't discriminate against the seeds and often they are broken down by stomach acids when chewed. Not always so, but still.

I have never heard of a 'bitter almond' ... Is that an actual classification? And apricot seeds not only taste like an almond that's bitter, when left in your mouth for a few minutes, it will make them go numb. Flavor tip for drinking it down, use milk or the apricot fruit itself. Delicious.

I love milk, but I wouldn't wash down apricot seeds with it.

Bitter almonds look like small almonds, maybe half the size.

[LePatron7]

I meant it tastes like an almond that's bitter. I haven't tried a wild bitter almond.

This article contains a chart of cyanogen content:
http://www.foodsafety.govt.nz/elibrary/industry/Cyanogenic_Glycosides-Toxin_Which.pdf

It looks like apricot seeds have about 1/5 the amygdalin content of bitter almond. Presumably the dose makes the poison and safety depends on the dose plus the context of the health of the person eating the seeds or nuts (such as glutathione level--the master antioxidant--which helps in detoxifying the amygdalin). I've seen extreme views on both ends of the spectrum, with some people worrying about the amygdalin in apple seeds and others believing that amygdalin is not toxic at any dose (which isn't true of any food).

I've seen conflicting views too. Most mainstream views are that the B17 is a toxin, and can kill you.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html

But the non mainstream views are that it is beneficial, and a necessary nutrient to prevent cancer.

http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/

FYI my brother has eaten approximately 20, maybe more just to see if it was toxic, with no ill effect.

[raw-al]

I've seen conflicting views too. Most mainstream views are that the B17 is a toxin, and can kill you.

QW is famous for using character assassination and every other dirty trick they can dream up so I am not sure how useful that link is. They also (if you have the time to read and check upon all their facts you are maybe a bit bored) fail to use science to back up their claims. They use hearsay (probably made up there is so much of it) They have lost so many battles in court that they are irrelevant. Their whole purpose is to trash people who threaten the drug cartel, not help humanity.

[Dr. D]

I love milk, but I wouldn't wash down apricot seeds with it.

Bitter almonds look like small almonds, maybe half the size.

aww come on, don't dock it til you try it dude haha. Honestly, I know it sounds crazy, but the flavors compliment each other well.

[LePatron7]

QW is famous for using character assassination and every other dirty trick they can dream up so I am not sure how useful that link is. They also (if you have the time to read and check upon all their facts you are maybe a bit bored) fail to use science to back up their claims. They use hearsay (probably made up there is so much of it) They have lost so many battles in court that they are irrelevant. Their whole purpose is to trash people who threaten the drug cartel, not help humanity.

Right, I don't take QW as credible at all, and I think I've seen posts here showing it's founded by someone who works for pharma.

Just wanted to show a source that shows they're "toxic."

I've also seen that healthy (non-cancerous) cells convert the Vitamin B17 into healthy substances.

"Normal healthy cells contain the enzyme Rhodanese which neutralizes the Benzaldahyde and Hydrogen Cyanide in B-17. It converts them to the useful nutrient compounds Thyiocyanate and Benzoic acid."

from - http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/b17-laetrile-alternative-cancer-treatment-suppressed-50-years/

[PaleoPhil]

Hi Raw-Al, I agree with you about apple seeds being harmless and maybe even beneficial. Two thumbs up! It's nice to find something I agree heartily on with you.

It's amazing what some folks worry about nowadays. A former coworker of mine warned me not to eat apple seeds because of potential cyanide poisoning, but I'm not concerned. My favorite apples are Dolgo apples, which are quite small. I eat everything but the stems. To try to avoid eating the itty bitty seeds and core would be a ridiculous waste of time, and quite possibly counter-productive.

I have never heard of a 'bitter almond' ... Is that an actual classification?

Hi Dr. D, I hope you don't mind a little humor--here's where you can find info on bitter almond:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitter+almond


Hi DaBoss88, Amygdalin is indeed a toxin, and I think that's why it's medicinal and theoretically might kill cancer cells (along with other plant food toxins). As with all plant toxins, "the dose is the poison" (and the medicine). The key question is,  what is the right dose? It's a question that rarely gets investigated in studies because there's little or no profit potential. So I mostly do my own experimenting. (I try not to prescribe and any who try my experiments do so at their own risk.)

[Dr. D]

Haha bravo good sir. I'm sorry, I kinda realized AFTER I hit send what I was really asking, and then I got distracted with work. Good site too haha.

I'll be more diligent in the future.

[LePatron7]

Hi DaBoss88, Amygdalin is indeed a toxin, and I think that's why it's medicinal and theoretically might kill cancer cells (along with other plant food toxins).

I think that it depends on what enzymes are present that determines whether the benzaldehyde and  hydrogen cyanide act as toxins or nutrients. The cancer site has enzymes that release the cyanide and benzaldehyde to destroy the cancer. While the rest of the body turns it into a useful substance.

"Normal healthy cells contain the enzyme Rhodanese which neutralizes the Benzaldahyde and Hydrogen Cyanide in B-17. It converts them to the useful nutrient compounds Thyiocyanate and Benzoic acid."

"There is no "free" hydrogen cyanide in Laetrile. When Laetrile comes in contact with the enzyme beta-glucosidase, the Laetrile is broken down to form two molecules of glucose, one molecule of benzaldehyde and one molecule of hydrogen cyanide (HCN). Within the body, the cancer cell-and only the cancer cell-contains that enzyme. The key word here is that the HCN must be FORMED. It is not floating around freely in the Laetrile and then released. It must be manufactured. The enzyme beta glucosidase, and only that enzyme, is capable of manufacturing the HCN from Laetrile. If there are no cancer cells in the body, there is no beta-glucosidase. If there is no beta-glucosidase, no HCN will be formed from the Laetrile (1)."

http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/laetrileandcyanide.html

That link gives a more detailed description. Of course like you mentioned anything in excess can be a toxin. So consuming 500 apricot seeds in one sitting is probably a bad idea.