Yo Brits! What is the real story about the London Riots? Looting? Mayhem?

[raw-al]

  All your points are invalid in a ridiculous way. For one thing, the American culture got started with the Constitution way after 1492. Plus,  aboriginal culture now forms only a tiny part of overall Australian culture. And besides I am talking about the present, not the dead past.  The number of non-Anglo-Saxons nowadays is also irrelevant as I am talking about the dominant culture not the people. I mean, you don't see Asian immigrants to the USA choosing to give their children Chinese first names, for example, it's Anglo-Saxon ones they usually give them.

As for "cultural genocide" that's truly absurd. I mean, banning sharia law and the burqa in the UK would not be committing cultural genocide as sharia law is alive and well in parts of the Middle-East. Besides, it's a question of "face". When you are invited into someone's home, you are expected to be polite and not smash your host's furniture for a laugh or because you resent his success in life. Same applies when you are an immigrant in a foreign country. Although immigration seems actually irrelevant in these riots, as many rioters weren't immigrants at all.

Incidentally, the poverty/fatherless society claims are bogus, now that the identity of some of the looters has been made known. A rich businessman's daughter, for example...

Besides, not having a father is no excuse for appalling behaviour. There are many people who have been sexually abused by their parents or worse who've behaved well in life.

Hmm, all this anti-women stuff must be really pissing off the female members here. I mean, problems in any society are always caused by both genders, for obvious reasons. Still, women also have their delusions, such as the notion that if women controlled the world, that there would no longer be any wars.

American culture is just Anglo-Saxon culture transplanted to the country that was inhabited by the first nations in North Am. and Australia. The new arrivals (Anglo-Saxons) did not integrate into the local indigenous populations any more than the new arrivals in Anglo-Saxonly predominantly Britain are doing.

In the dead past our ancestors did roughly what the immigrants to your country are doing now, just in a slower fashion. They probably want to take over and with their higher birthrate they no doubt will. I have read that the US is slowly being turned into a non-white neighbourhood and even a date when honky will be overtaken has been speculated.

People never integrate into the host society. The first few are like Uncle Toms but then after their foot is in the door they go back to the way they were.

The Anglo-Saxons and every other group that came to North Am. smashed the furniture of all the aboriginal occupants. It's survival of the ones with the bigger muscles and that appears to be what is going on in your country. I get that you are at war. The war will not stop until one side or the other is killed off one way or another just like the North Am aboriginals. This is no great sin, just the way humans are wired.

BTW think again about the naming theory of yours. The Asians/Africans/European/Orientals who emigrate into North Am. do indeed call their children names that none of us WASPS can pronounce or even remember. When I go kiteboarding I have a heck of a time remembering or even understanding the names of people I meet. My Indian (from India) friends do the same.

[raw-al]

Maybe you can do what your ancestors did back in 1755 with the "expulsion of the Acadians" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acadians

Now that certainly was an act of kindness and gentleness on the part of your forebearers.

A group of non-political simple farmer/fisher folk who left the politics of Europe behind, who wanted to live in peace out of any political climate. Just live and farm. They were successful and hard working. They reclaimed land from the ocean and created a very successful society who lived in harmony with everyone including the aboriginals.

Then the Brits ripped them out, separated families from one another and shipped them off to a foreign land that was basically swampland. AND why did they do this? Was it because the people were rioting in the streets or causing problems? No. It was because they would not sign allegiance to the King. A sheet of paper. Go figure.

[raw-al]

So that's the only reason then. So bad fathers are not at fault here? What would make women want to be single in the first place. Hmm... I wonder...  

I was not implying that one or the other, (bad mothers or bad fathers) are to blame.

People see a hole in a fence and they jump through it. We all do it.

If a girl wants a baby or couples with a male and has one in the belief that he will stick around, it is simplified by the welfare system providing sustenance and the legal system allowing suing the guy for support.

Previously there was pressure on the girl to get a strong commitment from a guy before consenting to having a sexual contact. Obviously rape is a separate issue.

Nature has provided a few instincts that have maintained the survival of our species.

Males have a strong drive to have sex which has the (sometimes) unintended consequence of creating a child.

Women have a strong drive to have children.

Sometimes the drives in the respective persons are so strong that tomorrow is not taken into account.

There have been men who dump their children since the beginning of the world. Saint Augustine was in this group.

There have been women who pick up "something" in a bar just to get themselves pregnant. A friend of mine's wife is a result of one of those couplings. She's never met her father. Boy is she f#*ked up. But she is a hell of a mother herself. She would kill anybody who hurt her kids. She spoils them and loves them to death. (figuratively speaking of course)

[TylerDurden]

The naming theory works. One only has to look at the media and higher education in the US to see that most of the Asians have adopted anglo-saxon names. It's mainly only the ones who haven't succeeded who keep their original non-western first names.

And it is quite possible for others to adopt an alien culture. One only has to look at the Bosnian Muslims, who were indigenous Christians before the Turks invaded.

[raw-al]

The naming theory works. One only has to look at the media and higher education in the US to see that most of the Asians have adopted anglo-saxon names. It's mainly only the ones who haven't succeeded who keep their original non-western first names.

And it is quite possible for others to adopt an alien culture. One only has to look at the Bosnian Muslims, who were indigenous Christians before the Turks invaded.

Sorry Tyler,
the successful (if a Doctor or successful business person or lawyer or other such professional category) category is being invoked, all my foreign born friends call their kiddies names that I cannot pronounce and have to consciously practice to get right in some cases.

The town I live in which is the capital of Canada is by far dominated by the presence of people from countries I had only barely heard of when growing up. This is true all across Canada. Even the poor outpost sections have Doctors, lawyers, etc., who have every religion, ethnicity and linguistic background imaginable.

The world is multi-cultural.

On my street alone there are: a Tibettan married to a French Canadian whose parents are German and Dutch. They go to a Tibbettan church sometimes and practice Yoga. Their daughter is named a typically North Am. name and speaks Tibettan and French and English and can sign (deaf speak)
My ancestors are Scottish, Irish, English and Swiss. My daughters have added French. In my immediate blood family, German and Haitian have been added.
Another neighbour is from the Caribbean married to an Anglo. Another neighbour is a Chinese married to a honkie.  (not sure what background)
Down the street are Russians, Bulgarians, Muslims, you name it. I am sure that a large percentage of Africa and China live here.

In the air every imaginable language is spoken. There are ethnic stores of every variety. You can buy probably every delicacy from around the world. Every imaginable church, mosque, temple, etc is happily, peacefully functioning. There are ethnic sections in town where people speak no English.

You should get out more often.

[Projectile Vomit]

Hello   TylerDurden. The blatantly racist, bigoted rant you've been spewing is exactly why I hesitate to allow my real name to be associated with this site.

Just in case you care...

[raw-al]

Tyler,
To get down to basics, your countrymen in the past have one of the most pathetic records in the annals of history on moving into sovereign nations, plundering and pillaging, raping, and subjugating locals into being slaves to your money machines. I am surprised that some of the people who post here have not brought up the subject.

Maybe you could give some examples of how y'all moved into a country and converted to their language and religion and delicately helped out with no expectation of remuneration.

Maybe it's payback time. Some call it Karma. Karma is the equal reflection for actions taken.

It is one thing to do something and feel regret, but it is another thing entirely to get self-righteous when somebody does it back to you.

(I was writing this as Eric replied)

[magnetic]

His "rant" sounded more nationalist than racist to me.

[raw-al]

Hello Geoff Purcell (aka TylerDurden). The blatantly racist, bigoted rant you've been spewing is exactly why I hesitate to allow my real name to be associated with this site.

Just in case you care...

I'm confused,
Why does it say "Last edit By TylerDurban" on this post?

[TylerDurden]

First of all, raw-al, as usual, you have completely gotten the wrong end of the stick. I was talking about CULTURE, not genetics/ethnicity for god's sake. People all over the world can peacefully adopt a different culture. There are endless other cases, such as the Christianisation of pagan Europe way back when.

Then there's the really moronic mentions of slaughter by the British in the past. First of all, this is wholly irrelevant, of course, since almost every nation/tribe/ethnic group on Earth has gone in for the old rape and pillage in the past. It seems fashionable to mention the British excesses, but there are plenty of other crimes  such as the Arab invasion of Europe in the Dark Ages, the Mongol invasion of Europe and Asia in the Middle-Ages etc.. More to the point, I was not advocating mass slaughter of ethnic groups, so it is truly disgraceful to even suggest that that was what I meant, I merely talked about assimilating a different culture for greater integration into society, nothing more.
 Hmm, I did state that those particular rioters(who, anyway,  as was made clear in the news right from the start, come from all ethnicities) should be shot or at least beaten up by the police, but these are criminals for god's sake. It so happens that I, as a UK citizen, would not appreciate it if some idiot tried to set fire to my house. Now, maybe some village-idiots here might be happy to see their own houses burnt to the ground while they pass out food and water to the rioters and wait for the police to come around, but who cares...


Interesting, Eric. You previously did not want your real name revealed on this site which we fixed for you, yet happily mention my own real name, trying to violate my right to privacy. Hypocrisy and double-standards.....  Besides, you previously unfairly attacked this whole  forum on spurious grounds(re moronic mention of "cults"), so it does look as though you are just returning in order to troll.

[TylerDurden]

I'm confused,
Why does it say "Last edit By TylerDurban" on this post?

I merely corrected a spelling-mistake in that drivel of a message. "been" instead of "be".

[Projectile Vomit]

Interesting, Eric. You previously did not want your real name revealed on this site which we fixed for you, yet happily mention my own real name, trying to violate my right to privacy...

Except that you have your own website (http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/testimonials/geoff-purcell-uk/) where you freely use your real name and expound on the virtues of the Raw Paleo Diet, and you've mentioned your real name on this site in other places. So how much privacy am I actually stealing from you?

And regarding trolling, re-read the pages of animosity you've been spewing in this thread. Who's the troll?

[KD]

Hello Geoff Purcell (aka TylerDurden). The blatantly racist, bigoted rant you've been spewing is exactly why I hesitate to allow my real name to be associated with this site.

Just in case you care...

Well I don't know if you checked out the 'Women' thread, but most of these conversations (TD or not) are often bigoted, racist, etc..its the caveman way essentially. I personally do agree with Mel Gibson and some other folks that at the end of the day we need to acknowledge to some extent that individuals are different and 'not equal' and not always tolerate all this PC crap in discussing such things on those terms. The problem is that he and others tend to take things way too far in not being respectful towards others' point of view and experience. People that are PC need to respect challenges to their viewpoint and people that are 'naturalistic' need to acknowledge that things change and don't have simple solutions.

In other words, just because in nature people have taken on certain roles does not mean contemporary societies cannot change those roles. It does mean they might have consequences particularly for the people who don't benefit as much from such.

As per the looters and unrest which will likely only spread and get worse...there is going to have to be some GOVERNMENT solution to such things that is not just us-against-them violence. IMO as a wake up...basially there isn't going to be an unraveling of social programs or return to some constitutional interpretation (here in the US or elsewhere) to how government functions..nor should there be as these things are unprepared for how truly complex people are. Everything in the past ONLY worked by marginalizing other people (women/blacks etc..) and in creating gaps between individuals more so then other times in history - nevermind in 'nature' - and at a price of removing all kinds of freedoms to drink clean water and find clean food and just live. Even medieval serfs only had to work less then 20 hours a week or something and they always had clean food and booze. The shitty aspects of the world we live in are not due to liberal policies but to industry and greed. Modern liberal policies (like conservative policies) can be a tool for others to capitalize and hold on to such resources and create ignorance.

Its true that constant striving for equality and such brings up a tremendous amount of problems that some would rather not deal with..but hell we get to pick up our food from a store and live in a relatively safe dwelling free of raids from angrier lusting savages.

I think even most people even on the right do not believe we will solve problems by returning to some extreme but just to more simplistic model..that it is not all a big conspiracy.

since people are forced to pay taxes and such, individuals that receive benefits should now be forced to meet more strict requirements to receive them. (I hesitate to write: like in China) which serve as incentives and benchmarks not to be an asshole.

If people want some kind of basic medical coverage (which is necessary even for healthy people in case of physical accidents and such) then they should have to comply with basic rules..like they can't have more then 2 kids. If people are unemployed for more than three months they should HAVE to get up and go to some non-bs public program that makes or constructs things. We should concentrate on the crack down of real food by corporations via government and lobby for policies where all the things that are 'bad' like fast food and such should go the way of cigarettes and just be taxed to death so that only hipsters can afford them as novelty items.

[TylerDurden]

Except that you have your own website (http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/testimonials/geoff-purcell-uk/) where you freely use your real name and expound on the virtues of the Raw Paleo Diet, and you've mentioned your real name on this site in other places. So how much privacy am I actually stealing from you?

  That isn't my own website, it's GS's, to which I merely contribute articles, the testimonial was done with great reluctance and in a good cause. I very rarely have mentioned my name here, usually it's been PP and others who have done so, and I then reluctantly admitted to it. Doesn't change the fact of your hypocrisy and double-standards attitude.

And regarding trolling, re-read the pages of animosity you've been spewing in this thread. Who's the troll?

Nothing wrong with my statements. I was legitimately criticising the usual lame excuses given about criminals re absent fathers/poverty etc, while some others were practically cheering the rioters! And you and one or two others  maniacally over-reacted to my comments, ridiculously accusing me of promoting genocide, when  I was actually suggesting  minor things such as changing names, removing sharia law and the like. As for you being a troll, well you previously quit the forum because you disapproved of it for mythical, dubious reasons. Why would you come back if not to troll, then?  Hmm, or perhaps it's just that you are the anarchistic type who always has "issues" with anyone in a position of authority, no matter what the situation?

What is truly disgraceful is the attitude of some members here, who seem to approve of criminals. I mean, these rioters were stealing things like televisions and luxury goods and the like. Now, if the rioters were genuinely  starving and only stole food and drink, I could understand that - I could even understand people shouting loudly during a demonstration/protest. But applauding rioters who were killing people, setting fires to peoples' homes, stripping people naked and robbing them etc., as a result of boredom and a desire for luxury goods, is just sick. Well, anyway, it seems to have blown over, curfews will  probably be coming in, and there will be no further need for groups of vigilantes with baseball bats hanging around the neighbourhood..

[Projectile Vomit]

...As for you being a troll, well you previously quit the forum because you disapproved of it for mythical, dubious reasons. Why would you come back if not to troll, then? 

I never left the website. I had my username changed so that it wasn't my real name. I then wanted something in between, not complete anonymity but at the same time not my full name, so I started and now use a new account with my first name as my username. I'd have changed the old one to "Eric" too, but can't as the way the board is structured doesn't give me that privilege.

As for my trolling, the only threads I can recall where I've challenged anyone are this one (challenging your racist, bigoted and nationalistic statements) and other threads where I challenged cheromiya_kid for his banning of a member that I didn't feel deserved it. If those two issues constitute trolling, well then I suppose I'm a troll and I guess you should ban me.

[TylerDurden]

I never left the website. I had my username changed so that it wasn't my real name. I then wanted something in between, not complete anonymity but at the same time not my full name, so I started and now use a new account with my first name as my username. I'd have changed the old one to "Eric" too, but can't as the way the board is structured doesn't give me that privilege.

You, at first wanted your account deleted completely. The only reason you chose the other option was because the 1st option wasn't allowed for obvious reasons re the search-engine.

As for my trolling, the only threads I can recall where I've challenged anyone are this one (challenging your racist, bigoted and nationalistic statements) and other threads where I challenged cheromiya_kid for his banning of a member that I didn't feel deserved it. If those two issues constitute trolling, well then I suppose I'm a troll and I guess you should ban me.

I made no racist, nationalistic, bigoted comments. All I suggested were minor methods already put in place  in other countries which did actually help improve relations between immigrant communities and their host nation, such as the name-changing law in Thailand. About the only "offensive" thing I said was that the rioters ought to have been shot and that I supported the baseball-bat-wielding vigilantes defending shopping/restaurant districts from the looters. This was because the police clearly hadn't a clue how to deal swiftly with the situation, so someone else had to step in. Condemning criminals is not bigoted, it's perfectly understandable, especially in the case of a person(me) whose house has been burgled several times, who suffered an attempted but failed mugging etc.

[raw-al]

Condemning criminals is not bigoted, it's perfectly understandable, especially in the case of a person(me) whose house has been burgled several times, who suffered an attempted but failed mugging etc.

Imagine how the folks in Iraq felt when y'all stormed into town (in the alive present), with cannons blazing like John Wayne, killing everything in your path, so you could secure oil with your old arch rival, the US.

Y'all have a long history of walking into Iraq and being not neighbourly and surprise, surprise karma knocks on your door.

But then I guess that is just disgraceful criminal-like hypocritical drivel from a crackpot, insane, dairy addicted Nazi, bleeding liberal, socialist pig like me...   

[TylerDurden]

Imagine how the folks in Iraq felt when y'all stormed into town (in the alive present), with cannons blazing like John Wayne, killing everything in your path, so you could secure oil with your old arch rival, the US.

Y'all have a long history of walking into Iraq and being not neighbourly and surprise, surprise karma knocks on your door.

But then I guess that is just disgraceful criminal-like hypocritical drivel from a crackpot, insane, dairy addicted Nazi, bleeding liberal, socialist pig like me...   

Didn't Canada participate in Iraq? And, anyway, I was always against the Iraq War,  because I knew that the Christians there would get wiped out etc., so you can't hold that against me. Indeed, most people in the UK were against the war, unlike in the US, but Blair forced us into it with that bogus pretence of the 45 minute warning and weapons of mass destruction nonsense. Democracies suck re peoples' rights, we should have had Prince Charles rule as a benevolent dictator ages ago. He at least usually listens to what the masses want, and would have got rid of the notion of invading other countries unnecessarily.

You still seem to be under the delusion that these riots were some sort of ethnic "war". It wasn't, didn't you see all the white faces everywhere among the looters?

As for the criminals, I stand by what I said before. Indeed, if I'd been in charge, I would have heeded Stalin's famous quote:- "Death solves all problems - no man, no problem." Imagine the State  not having to pay for expensive long  stays in prisons.

[raw-al]

I had to ask my GF to verify but Canada did not participate in the Iraq.

It did not take any "weapons of mass deduction" to figure out what that was all about.

BTW I do not believe that ordinary citizens of any country are the cause of war. It is typically waged for some or other economic reasons, * by people who have something to gain personally, like Bush/Cheney and their band of looters and backers, who made a fortune off of the deaths of countless people, not to mention the misery of the soldiers and the people of Iraq.

* (except in the case of racial hatred which would obviously not be a factor here.)

The whole topic of democracy VS Monarchy is a whole other question.

When you spoke of Sharia law and "they should adopt our culture" I assumed you were alluding to assimilation of other cultures.

So I am a bit confused.

I heard it was about university fees being raised. That does not sound like a justification for violence, so there has to be more.

[TylerDurden]

I mentioned Sharia law, because at least one community in the UK actually tried to install sharia law for all residents, at one stage - I don't care about sharia law in Saudi Arabia and the like, and do not approve of pursuing  foreign wars to make everyone be  like us. I just mean, when in Rome live as the Romans do. As for "adopting" a culture, minor  requirements like changing one's name (like in Thailand) or needing to speak English or have an education etc. all seem rather reasonable to me  as it makes life easier for both immigrants and the host country.

[goodsamaritan]

http://www.myhealthblog.org/2011/08/12/london-riots-malaysian-ashraf-haziq-beaten-jaw-broken-then-robbed-interviewed/

[raw-al]

I believe it was in "The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell that he described how New York City dealt with the crime issue in the subway system. I've heard others dispute what Malcolm says but it's a place to start.

[TylerDurden]

You're talking about the zero-tolerance policy, I suppose.


Just read an interesting article. A guy who opportunistically stole a bottle of water from a broken window in a  Lidl supermarket store got nabbed by the police and is getting full 6 months in jail. The only reason he isn't getting more time in jail is that he wasn't one of the real looters, he just did the minor theft on impulse. So, fortunately, the courts have seen sense and will presumably lock the serious rioters away for a decade or two at least.


At least, the media is turning against the looters now. Before, they provided the usual lame excuses for riots such as absent fathers/poverty etc., but not after photos were shown of people running off with expensive TV sets etc.

[raw-al]

You're talking about the zero-tolerance policy, I suppose.

Sorry I don't remember the details but essentially there was a serious problem with petty problems like not paying subway fees, theft etc.

The Police came down like a ton of bricks and prosecuted every single violation to the full extent of the law bringing paddy wagons in and carting off the offenders. There was more to the story, but this is the essence.

Seems to have worked because when we visited there a few years ago, the subway was awesomely friendly with people tripping over themselves to be helpful. We were pleasantly surprised. In fact a relative who lived in Manhattan told us it is one of the safest places on the planet. Go figure.

[TylerDurden]

Sadly, it seems I was wrong re harsh punishments, at least for those under 18:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8696787/UK-riots-young-yobs-back-on-streets-despite-David-Camerons-pledge.html

HR laws really need to be reworked so that criminals don't get away with crimes.


Interesting to read about Mark Duggan, the guy shot by the police being the nephew of a known gangster:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8697208/UK-riots-Mark-Duggan-was-nephew-of-Manchester-gangster-Desmond-Noonan.html

Most riots are started out of greed or a desire for violence or kick-started by rogues with political motives. Sure, on occasions, they can occur as a result of genuine grievances such as the Middle-Eastern uprisings in recent months and the riots that preceded the fall of the Soviet Union, but the latter are the exceptions.