Ron Paul for President of the USA

[raw-al]

YS,
Some great business partner Israel is. The Iraq war seemed to have a rather unbusinesslike effect on the price of oil......

Even after the Iraq war the Jewish press in the US which had been urging this debacle were soon seen scurrying for the manhole covers, with hardly a whimper lest they be seen. Hiding behind such silly platitudes as supporting the troops, supporting the President, war on Terror, ad nauseum. They knew it was a huge mistake and they didn't want to be seen as having an opinion, although a precious few were seen to whimper it was a mistake.

I used to visit an airport FBO where US troops passed through on their way across the pond to the Mid east. It pained me to see the fine gentle people being shipped off to a possible early grave.

As far as China goes TD is absolutely right. Indeed the Chinese have signed very long term contracts with the mid east countries for oil and signed at top dollar.

As far as Jimmy Carter and his presidency, I cannot comment. He appeared to be an honest man. I suspect he was a victim of a press that your country seems to sic on everyone who gets into power.

To say someone is the most failed president I think you are leaving Bush out of the running. According to Wackipedia Here is a reference to Bush's approval rating...
"By early 2006, his average rating was near 40%, and in July 2008, a poll indicated a near all-time low of 22%. Upon leaving office the final poll recorded his approval rating as 19%, a record low for any U.S. President."

[sabertooth]

Once a bureaucratic has the right to grab your genitals its  becomes hard for them to let go of that kind of power.

I am almost more opposed to the nanny state regulations that the world government control freaks are forcing on us, as I am about the out right criminality of the financial world.

You cant buy raw milk, raw glands, or foods that are actually tested free of harmful pesticides. We have all kinds of resources available for blowing up other countries to ensure that they can live as free as US.

There are cameras everywhere, Cops are on the prowl for criminals who don't wear seat belts, commit acts of rolling stops or have expired bar codes.

I can see whats in store, {for the next generation in my part of the world}, if things keep progressing as they are. People everywhere need to start preaching out against arrival of the nanny state. I don't want my children living under Chinese one child policy and having limited personal freedom, lower standard of living. We are now Paying taxes to organisations that close off resources,suppression of actually functional and healthy forms educational alternatives  and suppress technology in the name of environmentalism.

The UN already sets up ,through its think tank foundation backed organisations, the basic curriculum of most public school systems world wide, as well as the vaccine scheduled, and dietary content of cafeteria food. They want to feed us all soy...( ok maybe I am getting a bit silly now, so I will digress)

[ys]

Because of Israeli pressure to start wars in the Middle-East

That's a lie.  Israel did not start the war.  It was 6 arab states that started the war in 1948.  While it maybe true that UN's partitioning of Palestine was a shady affair the responsibility lies on countries that voted for it.  The same can be said for partitioning of India which was a botched job as well.

Some great business partner Israel

Much better than Egypt which was receiving significant amounts of military aid as well.
US does not admit it but they do indeed favour puppet regimes and seek to establish them wherever they can.  Soviet Union did the same thing.  And China is in the process as well.  They are actively buying foreign debt so they can have a controlling stake in those countries.

China is going to eat everyone's lunch, yours included, if not contested in the world arena.   Globalization is only going to expand.

As far as Jimmy Carter and his presidency, I cannot comment.

Hmmmmmm, then why do you advise me to read his book if you don't know what he has done?

I used to visit an airport FBO where US troops passed through on their way across the pond to the Mid east. It pained me to see the fine gentle people being shipped off to a possible early grave.

You know, one must be real stupid to sign up for army and not know they might be sent to some shithole to die for nothing significant.  Army is completely voluntary.

[TylerDurden]

That's a lie.  Israel did not start the war.  It was 6 arab states that started the war in 1948.  While it maybe true that UN's partitioning of Palestine was a shady affair the responsibility lies on countries that voted for it.  The same can be said for partitioning of India which was a botched job as well.

It is somewhat understandable that the Arabs attacked Israel - no region likes the notion of other peoples stealing part of their land. One could even argue that the Israelis started the whole business by having Irgun etc. terrorists bombing British and Arab targets in Palestine.

As regards some of the other wars, here is Begin's own admission that Israel started at least 3 of them:-

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0794/9407073.htm

Here is a list of all the wars Israel has been involved in:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_involving_Israel

What is incredible is that the last Israeli war against Lebanon got started over a mere 2 Israeli soldiers being kidnapped by Hizbollah. As a result of this minor matter, the Israelis bombed much of Lebanon(even the Christian areas!), which is interesting since the Christians had been allies of the Israelis in the previous Lebanon conflicts Israel got started:-

http://gulfnews.com/news/region/lebanon/christian-support-to-israel-dies-under-hail-of-bombs-1.248710

This behaviour seems due to Israel's policy of  "Meet force with greater force".

Much better than Egypt which was receiving significant amounts of military aid as well.
US does not admit it but they do indeed favour puppet regimes and seek to establish them wherever they can.  Soviet Union did the same thing.  And China is in the process as well.  They are actively buying foreign debt so they can have a controlling stake in those countries.

China is going to eat everyone's lunch, yours included, if not contested in the world arena.   Globalization is only going to expand.

The only reason that Egypt was given all that money by the US was to dissuade it from attacking Israel in revenge for all those wars Israel started in previous decades.

As for China, they are not seeking to set up puppet regimes, they merely aim to dominate economically.  Their approach appears to be that they don't care who is in charge as long as the bought-for oil/metals etc/ all go unhindered to China.

You know, one must be real stupid to sign up for army and not know they might be sent to some shithole to die for nothing significant.  Army is completely voluntary.

  The trouble is that the US provides all sorts of free training(driver's licence/pilot's licence/truck driver's licence etc.) plus money for university education, I believe, as well. This sort of bribe does give a huge incentive to people.

[ys]

As for China, they are not seeking to set up puppet regimes, they merely aim to dominate economically.

I see it completely different.  China currently does not have the  military might to do what US is doing.  But they are catching up.  China is building aircraft carriers and stealth technology.  These things are used exclusively for invasions and bullying.  Except in very rare occasions where one needs to defend remote territory as in the case of UK defending Falklands.  China is also building nuclear subs, and attack missiles.

China was also aggressively scouting Israeli UAV technology and Israel was willing to cooperate.  But US paid Israel not to share it with the Chinese.  That's just one of the examples why US is paying Israel.

On the side note India is building their first aircraft carrier and Russia is thinking to do the same when money will allow it.

The only reason that Egypt was given all that money by the US was to dissuade it from attacking Israel in revenge for all those wars Israel started in previous decades.

Dude, that is so wrong.  Mubarak was one of the only friend of Israel (and of course US).  He was true secular authoritarian who would do anything for money.

What is incredible is that the last Israeli war against Lebanon got started over a mere 2 Israeli soldiers being kidnapped by Hizbollah.

You don't understand middle eastern culture and mentality.  Only the strong is respected.  If you don't respond with brutal force it'll be considered a defeat and invitation for more attacks.  That's why diplomacy never worked in that area.

[TylerDurden]

I see it completely different.  China currently does not have the  military might to do what US is doing.  But they are catching up.  China is building aircraft carriers and stealth technology.  These things are used exclusively for invasions and bullying.  Except in very rare occasions where one needs to defend remote territory as in the case of UK defending Falklands.  China is also building nuclear subs, and attack missiles.

China was also aggressively scouting Israeli UAV technology and Israel was willing to cooperate.  But US paid Israel not to share it with the Chinese.  That's just one of the examples why US is paying Israel.

Think about it, the US is being forced to bribe one of its supposed "allies" in order to stop it from selling secrets which this ally had already taken from the US, in the first place. That makes it clear that Israel has no usefulness to the US as an ally. If it didn't have to support Israel, it wouldn't have to support Egypt either, since the two are intertwined. Also, if the US had the sense to grasp that imposing sanctions is one of the 3 or 4 main reasons why the US is so despised around the world, and lifted its sanctions from Burma, Cuba and Iran, among others, then its reputation would also increase.

As for China's current policy, they already have constant problems within their own country, such as in Tibet, Xinjiang etc. They are extremely unlikely to attack anyone except their nearest neighbours, and their overwhelming economic might means they simply don't need to go to war. Indeed, there are now signs of an approach to creating an EU-style economic organisation in East Asia.

As for its military buildup, nuclear submarines and the like are necessary to show how unpleasant it would be to invade that same country. Every country, even Iran, should have the right to avoid the horror of nuclear blackmail from another country.

On the side note India is building their first aircraft carrier and Russia is thinking to do the same when money will allow it.

  Cool - as history has shown, it's usually the case that those who give up their weapons will usually end up being destroyed sooner or later by another entity with bigger weapons. Best that everyone provide their own military deterrent to being invaded. I note that Libya and Iraq were invaded, but would not have been if they had had nuclear weapons, for example.

Dude, that is so wrong.  Mubarak was one of the only friends of Israel (and of course US).  He was true secular authoritarian who would do anything for money.

He was no genuine "friend". You are right that he liked to be bribed, but that does not make him a genuine "friend". I am sure he would have listened to his people, and adopted a far more aggressive stance towards Israel, if he had not been bribed away from that stance.

You don't understand middle eastern culture and mentality.  Only the strong is respected.  If you don't respond with brutal force it'll be considered a defeat and invitation for more attacks.  That's why diplomacy never worked in that area.

  That is plain ridiculous. I previously gave a typical example whereby Israel bombed a whole country(Lebanon) simply because a  (non-government-aligned) militia had abducted 2 Israeli soldiers. That is such psychopathic, excessive overkill that it is plain that Israel is its own worst enemy.

That said, while I find the above quoted comment rather extreme, I do think that the Middle-East has its problems. For one thing,  they are still an intensely tribal culture which means that a regime can't really survive in the Middle-East unless it  a) represents/supports one allied group of those tribes and b) cracks down on any opposing tribes. Europe got around this tribal/regional problem by centralising the State, during monarchic reigns, and by crushing the power of the provincial peoples via Versailles and other unpleasant methods.

[raw-al]

You don't understand middle eastern culture and mentality.  Only the strong is respected.  If you don't respond with brutal force it'll be considered a defeat and invitation for more attacks.  That's why diplomacy never worked in that area.

You do not show your country of origin.

[raw-al]

That's a lie.  Israel did not start the war.  It was 6 arab states that started the war in 1948.  While it maybe true that UN's partitioning of Palestine was a shady affair the responsibility lies on countries that voted for it.  The same can be said for partitioning of India which was a botched job as well.

The Zionists treat(ed) the Arabs like dirt. They murdered adults and children including school busses full of Arab children, they drove the people off not only the land that somehow was given to them (the Zionists) without the approval of the owners (Arabs) but additional lands which they have continued to take over today including the infamous demarcation line with towers that they built on Arab land.

They have brutally killed Arabs indiscriminately in these areas and bulldozed their homes.

Hmmmmmm, then why do you advise me to read his book if you don't know what he has done?

At least I admit what I know less about.

Rather than dump on Jimmy Carter who you seem to know nothing about, other than to make wisecracks, maybe you should read his book on Palestine. He is but one of many on the sad subject.

one must be real stupid to sign up for army and not know they might be sent to some shithole to die for nothing significant.  Army is completely voluntary.

If you knew anything about Ron Paul which I see you do not, you would know that this is something he is against.

The US had various periods of enforced conscription in the military with a variety of selection schemes. Indeed if you are an American my understanding is that you are legally required to sign up for conscription. Whether or not they will do anything about the list remains to be seen. At one time you could buy your way out of it. (Civil War period) but nowadays you have to buy your way out like Bush Junior did during Vietnam.

Here's Wackipedia's version;

"The United States discontinued the draft in 1973, moving to an all-volunteer military force, thus there is no mandatory conscription.
However, the Selective Service System remains in place as a contingency plan; men between the ages of 18 and 25 are required to register so that a draft can be readily resumed if needed. In current conditions conscription is considered unlikely by most political and military experts. In fact, some experts consider the selective service system itself to be pointless since the chances of a draft are nearly zero and since a draft would be extremely ineffective in a nuclear war, for example."

[goodsamaritan]

Jesse Ventura There's Only ONE Person I Like At All That's Ron Paul!

[SkinnyDevil]

Ron Paul is the only candidate from any party (with the possible exception of Gary Johnson) who understands what the problem truly is, and the solution.

It is that simple.

[raw-al]

Second, US does not have any friends, only business partners.  That's what Israel is - a source of certain services, materials, and intelligence.

So you are suggesting that the Taliban, leaders of the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan (where 10 - 12 year old boys are lured in to learn how to strap bombs to their bodies and kill people who have stereos, or no beards or "gasp" girls who show their ankles or children who dare to go to school), Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein etc etc etc are business partners.......... hmmmmmmm interesting business.

It's quite illuminating the information that Ron Paul brings to light as the actual cost of this clandestine nonsense.

The US has 900 bases in 135 countries in the world. The military budget eclipses the total that the rest of the world spends on the military.

[goodsamaritan]

Will The Jews Let Ron Paul Win?

Will The Jews Let Ron Paul Win?

[raw-al]

Will The Jews Let Ron Paul Win?

Will The Jews Let Ron Paul Win?

Not likely, and Americans are too lazy to vote to get rid of this political juggernaut that runs America. The Jews vote en masse.

They are essentially the latest version of the Mafia.

[cherimoya_kid]

The Jews vote en masse.

Jews make up about 2% of the US population.   Your math is broken.

[TylerDurden]

Jews make up about 2% of the US population.   Your math is broken.

As I recall, this figure applies only to those actively practising Judaism as a religion. Those of the same ethnic affiliation but who are Christian, Buddhist, agnostic or atheist etc. are not included.

[PaleoPhil]

"Although Jews make up just over 2 percent of the population of the United States--approximately 5.5 million out of 262 million--many Americans mistakenly believe that we constitute a full 20 percent of the American people, because of our disproportionate visibility, influence, and accomplishments. But our numbers may soon be reduced to the point where our impact on American life will necessarily become marginalized. One Harvard study predicts that if current demographic trends continue, the American Jewish community is likely to number less than 1 million and conceivably as few as 10,000 by the time the United States celebrates its tricentennial in 2076. Other projections suggest that early in the next century, American Jewish life as we know it will be a shadow of its current, vibrant self--consisting primarily of isolated pockets of ultra-Orthodox Hasidim.

Jews have faced dangers in the past, but this time we may be unprepared to confront the newest threat to our survival as a people, because its principal cause is our own success as individuals. Our long history of victimization has prepared us to defend against those who would destroy us out of hatred; indeed, our history has forged a Jewish identity far too dependent on persecution and victimization by our enemies. But today's most serious threats come not from those who would persecute us, but from those who would, without any malice, kill us with kindness--by assimilating us, marrying us, and merging with us out of respect, admiration, and even love. The continuity of the most influential Jewish community in history is at imminent risk, unless we do something dramatic now to confront the quickly changing dangers."

The Vanishing American Jew
In Search of Jewish Identity for the Next Century
By ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ
1997

[TylerDurden]

Yes, I have read Derschowitz's claims re the Vanishing Jew, but given that he is a particularly  ardent admirer of Israel etc., one can safely state that his fears are wholly unfounded, to say the  least.

[sabertooth]

Joe Biden says I am a zionist

You can't make this stuff up , the vice president of the united states is a Zionist.

[PaleoPhil]

Yes, I have read Derschowitz's claims re the Vanishing Jew, but given that he is a particularly  ardent admirer of Israel etc., one can safely state that his fears are wholly unfounded, to say the  least.

Good. Gooood. ... The Force is strong with you! A powerful Sith, you will become! Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth... Tyler.

The fact of the matter is, English- and Irish- Americans (aka the Sith) are the real dominant power. I should know, being one, and Jews are merely our puppets. We use them to take the heat while we really run things, and our opponents are powerless to stop us. Muwahahahaaaa!

I can safely reveal this because our propaganda has so saturated peoples' minds that they can't help but blame Jews even when we reveal our nefarious workings. The dwindling relative size of the Jewish segment of America means we'll soon need a new scapegoat to distract people with, though.

We have cool secret meetings with special handshakes, human sacrifice and everything.    Now back to your Jew-bashing like good apprentices. Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy and we shall have peassss.

While you're at it, take care of Jon Stewart will you? He's spoiling things by sticking up for Ron.
Ron Paul Mentioned on Daily show: Jon Stewart exposes media censorship of Ron Paul

[TylerDurden]

The fact of the matter is, English- and Irish- Americans (aka the Sith) are the real dominant power. I should know, being one, and Jews are merely our puppets. We use them to take the heat while we really run things, and our opponents are powerless to stop us. Muwahahahaaaa!

I can safely reveal this because our propaganda has so saturated peoples' minds that they can't help but blame Jews even when we reveal our nefarious workings. The dwindling relative size of the Jewish segment of America means we'll soon need a new scapegoat to distract people with, though.

  I must admit, your above drivel is shown as being particularly stupid right now. I mean, if the above were true, there's no way that affirmative action would exist right now, let alone the rabid support for Israel by the US. Quite aside, from the Israeli lobby's current dominance of Hollywood and the White House/Congress.

I don't personally approve of the extremist Islamic viewpoint, as of this time, but , compared to the Israeli/Zionist viewpoint, they seem like tame doves by comparison. I do often wonder  if the world's current problems could all just be resolved just by a few tactical nuclear strikes in the major Israeli cities...

[PaleoPhil]

Gooood. Use your aggressive feelings. Let the hate flow through you.

[goodsamaritan]

This will ADD more FUEL to the reality that JEWS hate Ron Paul:

http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/01/republican-jewish-coalition-bars-ron-pau

Republican Jewish Coalition Bars Ron Paul From Presidential Debate, Saying He's Too "misguided and extreme"

On Wednesday, Dec. 7, the Republican Jewish Coalition will host a presidential-candidates forum featuring Michele Bachmann, Herman Cain, Newt Gingrich, Jon Huntsman, Rick Perry, Mitt Romney, and Rick Santorum. Not invited is the GOP candidate currently polling around third in New Hampshire and second in Iowa: Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas). The explanation:

    Paul was not invited to attend the RJC's candidates forum because the organization - as it has stated numerous times in the past - "rejects his misguided and extreme views," said [RJC Executive Director Matt] Brooks.

    "He's just so far outside of the mainstream of the Republican party and this organization," Brooks said. Inviting Paul to attend would be "like inviting Barack Obama to speak."

Most of the mainstream US Media is owned by Jews.  As well as a lot of the owners of the FED.  And it is the MSM that shapes the MASSES who to vote. 

Ron Paul needs to find a way to get his message out to the 98% of the Americans who are NOT jews.

[ys]

i missed old replies somehow.  sorry for lengthy replies, just catching up.

Rather than dump on Jimmy Carter who you seem to know nothing about, other than to make wisecracks

Haha, I think this is so dumb for you to say.  How can you conclude that I know nothing about Carter when I only said that he was the most failed president?  Well for starters let me remind you that Carter brokered Camp David accord which was humongous failure that resulted in current Israeli-Palestinian relations.  And his failure during Iran hostage crisis.  Need any more?

So you are suggesting that the Taliban...

Absolutely correct.  They were used to counteract USSR invasion of Afghanistan in case you forgot.  Same thing with Saddam until his ego took the best of him and got himself lots of enemies.

The Zionists treat(ed) the Arabs like dirt. They murdered adults and children including school busses full of Arab children, they drove the people off not only the land that somehow was given to them (the Zionists) without the approval of the owners (Arabs) but additional lands which they have continued to take over today including the infamous demarcation line with towers that they built on Arab land.

Hmmmm, maybe jews should give a bill to Italians for their expulsion from Palestine?  What do you think?

And in case you don't know arabs who stayed and are now Israeli citizens have more rights and freedom than citizens of Syria, Egypt, Jordan, and the rest of the arab world.  How do you explain that arabs in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan treat their Palestinian refugee brothers like dirt?  When muslims expelled jews from Morocco, Lybia, Iraq, Iran, Syria, and others Israel took them all and gave them citizenship right away.  And Lebanese, Syrians, and Jordanians treat arab refugees like dirt.  Do you know why?  Because arabs in those countries do not have national identity, they live by medieval tribal rules and given chance would love to cut throats of competing tribes.  Not just arabs, but pretty much throughout muslim world with few exceptions.  Do you see where the problem is?

If you knew anything about Ron Paul which I see you do not, you would know that this is something he is against.

Exactly why Ron Paul is completely clueless about foreign policy.

Not likely, and Americans are too lazy to vote to get rid of this political juggernaut that runs America. The Jews vote en masse

Ron Paul will not win even if all the American Jews vote for him.  Whoever gets the most fundraising money from bankers, lawyers, farma, oil and unions has the best chance of winning regardless of the agenda.  Ron Paul does not have the backing of any of those groups.  He relies on individual contributions which would not be enough to win even the Senate or Governor's seat.  Unfortunately in this country money make all the weather.  Ron Paul isolated himself from big money and for that he will get his 5%.

Also, if the US had the sense to grasp that imposing sanctions is one of the 3 or 4 main reasons why the US is so despised around the world, and lifted its sanctions from Burma, Cuba and Iran, among others, then its reputation would also increase.

Oh yes, US is greatly despised, but somehow most of them want to come to the US.  Care to explain that?

As for its military buildup, nuclear submarines and the like are necessary to show how unpleasant it would be to invade that same country. Every country, even Iran, should have the right to avoid the horror of nuclear blackmail from another country.

I repeat, aircraft carriers do nothing for the defense.  Those things are ridiculously expensive and costly to maintain.  Only superpowers who have invasions in mind build them.
You really have no clue who is in power in Iran.  Iran's president publicly calls for Israel's destruction.  No sane president would ever say that.  Unless of course you greatly don't like Israel then you would want Iran to have nuclear bomb.

On a similar topic can you explain why US keeps paying Pakistan even though both pretty much hate each other?

[cherimoya_kid]

As I recall, this figure applies only to those actively practising Judaism as a religion. Those of the same ethnic affiliation but who are Christian, Buddhist, agnostic or atheist etc. are not included.

For that matter, everyone of European descent is Jewish, if by "Jewish", you mean "descended from a Jew". Your point is ridiculous.  As far as the strict definition of Jewish, only a few million people on the planet are born to a Jewish mother, which is the strict definition.

I just don't get all the anti-Semitism. Rise above hate.

[ys]

As I recall, this figure applies only to those actively practising Judaism as a religion. Those of the same ethnic affiliation but who are Christian, Buddhist, agnostic or atheist etc. are not included.

I think you are confused about religion and ethnicity.  2% are the ethnic Jews, not just those who practice judaism.    In other languages Jewish nationality and Jewish religion are different words.  cherimoya_kid is mostly correct, majority of people born to Jewish fathers are also considering themselves Jews.  Read wikipedia, it's all there.