Author Topic: Ron Paul for President of the USA  (Read 251169 times)

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Offline raw-al

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #625 on: February 18, 2012, 09:20:07 am »
It's not just the US.

In Quebec during the Referendum (never-endum) on separation which was essentially a ploy to get more provincial power and money from the rest of the country, you had to be a member of the party in power (rabid separatist) to get a job at the election booths and therefore naturally you were a certified vote counter.

There was investigations into the voter fraud and it was officially put at 10% but really it was a lot more. Business as usual.

As Draconian as what you are saying sounds Tyler, it's true. May as well set up a King again.

As I mentioned previously there are more people in US jails than there was in Stalin's.
Cheers
Al

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #626 on: February 18, 2012, 11:43:20 am »
Tyler, I think I would have to become terribly drunk to fully understand your melding of sympathy for libertarianism with even more enthusiastically professed sympathy for benevolent dictatorship, but oddly enough I think I have a small inkling of what you intend and at least you picked one of the better dictators in the King of Bhutan. I believe you mean King Jigme Singye Wangchuck, yes? At least he placed happiness above money in the hierarchy of values. The USA is still a young nation, enamored of everything new, with money unfortunately still viewed as the ultimate objective and yardstick. Wangchuck at least had the sense to realize that there are more important things than money, fancy clothes, and newfangled junk to clutter one's home.

Here's a classic example of a modern liberal--he tries to keep morality completely out of his movies, is proud of it, proclaims it to the world and clearly looks down upon anyone who disagrees, and his liberal interviewer is impressed:
Quentin Tarantino: Keeping Morality Out of the Question

The public embrace of evil by today's liberals is refreshingly honest and forthright.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 12:33:07 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #627 on: February 18, 2012, 06:45:39 pm »
Well, the old King of Bhutan was perhaps a bad choice. He was a fine ruler up until the point where he very stupidly changed Bhutan's government towards more democratic lines, plus I believe the death penalty has been recently abolished which is a disaster. This will inevitably pave the way for massive corruption, just like in neighbouring democracies, Nepal and India. Plus, when you have a weakened king who has to get a "yes" from parliamentarians and special interests before being allowed to do anything, then very little ever gets done, and the usual compromises between so many groups of people often don't really benefit anyone in the long-term. I should have noted Peter the Great or Charles V or Maria Theresia as being better examples(Peter the Great even killed his eldest son in order to carry out his dream, now that's integrity!). Whatever the case, I have noted that  Prince Charles' ideas are usually far more in line with what the majority of British people want than any parliamentarians.

As for  extreme anarchism-libertarianism, with no laws curbing personal behaviour, and enlightened despotism, I am actually far more in favour of the former, for obvious reasons, and have made that clear previously. I just don't think it's as likely to come about as the latter type of government. The real problem today is that we have people elected for only a few years, and who try to make as much money as possible either during or after their terms. Having one ruler who genuinely cares for his people(and who doesn't need to deal in backfighting and treachery to get to the top because he already is at the top, anyway) is so much more effective, since, as he's there for life, he can take a much longer-term view than others. Now, granted, one has to avoid inbreeding of royal lines(eg:- Habsburg Lip etc.) but that's solved by the Imperial Japanese custom of never marrying aristocracy, and one has to ensure that there are capable royal advisers, and not automatically have the eldest ascend the throne, in case he/she turns out to be incompetent as a ruler, but these are simple to implement.



"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #628 on: February 18, 2012, 10:21:00 pm »
As for  extreme anarchism-libertarianism, with no laws curbing personal behaviour, and enlightened despotism, I am actually far more in favour of the former, for obvious reasons, and have made that clear previously.
Yes, as clear as mud.  ;D At any rate, the mix-mash makes for interesting reading.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #629 on: February 18, 2012, 10:44:15 pm »
The people of the United States tried to establish a modern progressive constitutional monarchy through the Kennedy family( John and Bobby,  and much later Jr.) Who were brutally killed by the powers that be .

Many in America would love to have a benevolent governing class that could not be bought off and would not sell out the people, but the  special interest in control would not allow for such a monarchy to rise up and take hold of the seat of of power.

Kennedy vowed to rid our government of the secretive rulers by his second term, and given the chance he would of. Then with the love of the people behind him he could of handed the presidency over to his brother or someone else who would of continued building a better America.

Instead we got LBJ the biggest crook in Washington. Who ushered in the era of pointless war, debt, and servitude to the military industrial complex.
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/11/us/how-johnson-won-election-he-d-lost.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm






« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 04:48:23 am by sabertooth »
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #630 on: February 18, 2012, 11:05:50 pm »
I should have noted Peter the Great
BTW, you may be disturbed to learn that I'm also something of a fan of Peter, though like the old King of Bhutan, some of his modernization reforms had unintended negative consequences. Perhaps there is some sort of third way that will incorporate the best aspects of both anarchism and libertarianism with those of values-oriented authoritarian rule. One problem with chiefs is they tend to want to become lords, and lords to become kings, and kings to become emperors, and emperors to become rulers of the world for life. Some check and balance seems necessary to counter that tendency.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 11:08:59 pm by TylerDurden »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #631 on: February 18, 2012, 11:10:49 pm »
I see the two sides as completely separate, it being a choice of either one not both.  If I have to be ordered around, I would only like someone who had my best interests at heart, regardless of whether it was benevolent or not in the short-term. Otherwise, I would far rather just be left alone to do whatever I want.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #632 on: February 18, 2012, 11:19:05 pm »
What about a decentralized tribal pastoral-type society with local or regional chiefs? It's nearly anarchic, with very little oversight, but there is a ruler or rulers who could obtain his/her/their position(s) in a way of your choosing. Not very realistic in today's modern urbanized societies, but maybe there's some way of creating a sort of modern version of it? Some way of re-instilling traditional values and long-term thinking into society without absolute despotisms that inevitably become horrible when a benign dictator either goes sour or is succeeded by a malevolent one?

Your checks and balances of never marrying aristocracy, and somehow requiring that there are capable and presumably powerful royal advisers, are a start, though I don't know how one prevents a despot from getting rid of capable advisers he doesn't care for, and thus ignoring good advice.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #633 on: February 18, 2012, 11:37:02 pm »
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9127

By Brad Friedman on 2/17/2012 2:49pm 

The ongoing fraud in MAINE by an independent reporter.
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Offline raw-al

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #634 on: February 19, 2012, 12:01:41 am »
As for  extreme anarchism-libertarianism, with no laws curbing personal behaviour, and enlightened despotism, I am actually far more in favour of the former, for obvious reasons, and have made that clear previously. I just don't think it's as likely to come about as the latter type of government. The real problem today is that we have people elected for only a few years, and who try to make as much money as possible either during or after their terms. Having one ruler who genuinely cares for his people(and who doesn't need to deal in backfighting and treachery to get to the top because he already is at the top, anyway) is so much more effective, since, as he's there for life, he can take a much longer-term view than others. Now, granted, one has to avoid inbreeding of royal lines(eg:- Habsburg Lip etc.) but that's solved by the Imperial Japanese custom of never marrying aristocracy, and one has to ensure that there are capable royal advisers, and not automatically have the eldest ascend the throne, in case he/she turns out to be incompetent as a ruler, but these are simple to implement.
Funnily enough I remember a speech long ago, by the Indian Yogi, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi where he said roughly what you said about the monarchy being superior.

It is of course fashionable to dump on the monarchy, but I kind of wonder if a certain amount of that is jealousy.

A monarchy represents stability which is missing when ruthless or greedy people get elected to further their ego/pocketbook aims.

Well said PP and ST also
Cheers
Al

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #635 on: February 19, 2012, 01:05:34 am »
PP, I loathe the noble savage theory, and am fully aware of its limitations. I think a sizeable population needs/requires a different kind of government, one in which either enlightened despotism or anarcho-libertarianism exists.

I think it's easy for to prevent a king/emperor from banning capable advisors. All one has to do is enact laws allowing only the best of the electorate to vote to elect the relevant advisors, ie not the worst like ex-fraudsters/muggers etc., and to prevent the king/emperor from firing those advisors.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #636 on: February 19, 2012, 01:47:03 am »
PP, I loathe the noble savage theory, and am fully aware of its limitations. I think a sizeable population needs/requires a different kind of government, one in which either enlightened despotism or anarcho-libertarianism exists.
I wasn't trying to imply that you like a noble savage theory. After all, I thought you explained that the noble savage idea was fictional, based on the nostalgic utopian assumptions of Weston Price (and perhaps others?) and not actually based on the reality of past societies? Plus, I already pointed out that it isn't practical to return to even the actual way that things were due to the population (urbanized) factor (among others). The past reality (not the noble savage myth you've talked about) was merely what you've been describing reminded me of.

Quote
I think it's easy for to prevent a king/emperor from banning capable advisors. All one has to do is enact laws allowing only the best of the electorate to vote to elect the relevant advisors, ie not the worst like ex-fraudsters/muggers etc., and to prevent the king/emperor from firing those advisors.
OK, so you're adding the semi-democratic element of advisors directly elected by an elite? So presumably those advisors would campaign and they would effectively be like the Roman Senate? Who would be "the best of the electorate"?

I don't have any answers myself beyond that certain libertarian and libertarian-oriented politicians seem the least loathesome of our US politicians and the least likely to cause long-term harm. There seem to be downsides to every approach. In other words, no utopias.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 02:00:50 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #637 on: February 19, 2012, 03:08:59 am »
I actually agree with the elected advisors + monarch idea.  There are several countries with a system like that, IIRC.

The problem with monarchies, especially the more traditional monarchic systems, comes with the fact that the NEXT monarch may be a very bad one, even if the existing one is good.  Elected officials are usually not in power long enough, nor have enough power, to do either as much good or bad as a monarch. It's a middle-of-the-road approach.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #638 on: February 19, 2012, 03:36:38 am »
I actually agree with the elected advisors + monarch idea.  There are several countries with a system like that, IIRC.
Which ones are you thinking of?

Quote
The problem with monarchies, especially the more traditional monarchic systems, comes with the fact that the NEXT monarch may be a very bad one, even if the existing one is good.
Is there an echo in here?  :P
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #639 on: February 19, 2012, 07:42:42 am »
Which ones are you thinking of?


I want to say a couple of Southeast Asian countries, but it's been a while since I studied any of that.

the UK had a system very much like that, prior to the monarchs just becoming figureheads.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #640 on: February 19, 2012, 08:14:22 am »
Are you thinking of Thailand or perhaps Singapore, though not a monarchy?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 08:20:43 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #641 on: February 19, 2012, 01:41:52 pm »
Even if the monarch is a bad one, if his advisors are good, then it doesn't matter. There are endless examples where an advisor deftly managed to outwit a less competent ruler - Bismarck is  a case in point. Now, if the voters can only vote if they are above a certain IQ and have minimum social mores etc.(ie are not conmen or bank-robbers or whatever), and if the elected officials/politicians are also forced to maintain a similiar high standard in order to be eligible to stand, then things are fine. A monarchy can also be stable provided there are enough royals to choose from(perhaps royals could be forced to become polygamists?) - then the right royal could be elected(like in the Holy Roman Empire).

The real problem is that few human societies have ever instituted a genuine meritocracy. I mean, we now have ultra-rich people who only became rich via skulduggery of various kinds, not through hard work or brilliance. I was truly appalled when the governments bailed out the banks.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #642 on: February 19, 2012, 02:32:20 pm »
Are you thinking of Thailand or perhaps Singapore, though not a monarchy?

I think I was thinking of Thailand, but I think there's another, maybe even one in the Middle East.


Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #643 on: February 19, 2012, 03:46:28 pm »
I think I was thinking of Thailand, but I think there's another, maybe even one in the Middle East.


The Thai King is, sadly, just a figurehead. The Saudi king seems to be the one you are thinking of, or perhaps the Moroccan one?
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #644 on: February 19, 2012, 03:49:47 pm »
I just read an article in the Daily Telegraph which emphasises the hypocrisy(and the monumental stupidity) of the West in that it is siding with Al-Quaeda as regards Syria, and Libya etc. before that. Ron Paul is right, we need to get out of the Middle-East:-

"Sunday 19 February 2012

Syria's crisis is leading us to unlikely bedfellows
David Cameron and William Hague are at risk of over-simplifying a dangerous and complex situation.
Protesters in Egypt chant slogans calling for the expulsion of the Syrian ambassador - Syria's crisis is leading us to unlikely bedfellows
Protesters in Egypt chant slogans calling for the expulsion of the Syrian ambassador  Photo: AFP/GETTY

By Peter Oborne

9:00PM GMT 18 Feb 2012

When two car bombings killed nearly 50 people in the heart of the Syrian capital of Damascus just before Christmas, we in the West were quick to challenge claims made on state TV that the atrocities had been carried out by al-Qaeda. We were inclined to award more credibility to the Syrian rebels, who denied that the terror group was involved at all, and insisted that the attacks had been cynically staged by the government, perhaps as a bid for international sympathy.

However, all doubt ended last week when James Clapper, director of US national intelligence, informed the Senate Armed Services Committee that the Damascus bombings “had all the earmarks of an al-Qaeda attack”. Mr Clapper added that “we believe al-Qaeda in Iraq is extending its reach into Syria”. So, it’s official. Al-Qaeda is acknowledged as an ally of Britain and America in our desire to overturn the Syrian government.

Think about it. Ten years ago, in the wake of the destruction of the Twin Towers, we invaded Afghanistan to eliminate al-Qaeda. Now the world’s most notorious terror organisation wants to join a new “coalition of the willing” in Syria (not just al-Qaeda: yesterday the Muslim group Hizb ut-Tahrir staged a march through west London in support of their Syrian brothers and the establishment of the Khilafah state).

This may be the most profound turnaround in global politics since the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact of 1939 converted Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany from bitter enemies into allies – and it is important to understand that the affinity of interests between al-Qaeda and the West extends far beyond Syria. Britain, the United States and al-Qaeda also have a deep, structural hostility to President Assad’s biggest sponsor, Iran.

Like al-Qaeda, we are interested in undermining Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in the Lebanon. In Libya, David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy threw their weight behind the destruction of Gaddafi’s government and its replacement by a new regime which reportedly embraces al-Qaeda-connected figures. We and the terror group have come to share the same hostility to the Iraqi prime minister Nouri al-Maliki, and for very much the same reason: we both agree that he takes his orders from Tehran.

Of course, it remains the case that we have different methods and contrasting ideals. But we share unnervingly similar short-term objectives. Although it is unlikely that Britain and America have significant direct dealings with al-Qaeda, it may be that some of our allies do.

Let’s consider for a moment one of the most glaring hypocrisies of American foreign policy: the differential treatment between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Washington never ceases to complain about the connection between the Pakistani intelligence services and the Taliban. But we never hear a whisper of concerns about the connection between Saudi intelligence and Salafi movements across the Middle East, of which al-Qaeda is the best known offshoot.

For months, the region has been alive with rumours that al-Qaeda and other Sunni fighters have been sneaking into Syria through Lebanon and Turkey. Many of these extremist Sunni infiltrators fought with al-Qaeda in Iraq before being driven out and taking refuge in the Lebanon. It is likely that they are backed with money and arms by Saudi interests, and inconceivable that they could act without the knowledge, and perhaps the assistance, of Saudi intelligence.

So what has brought al-Qaeda in from the cold? The answer lies in the Arab Spring. Certainly the revolutions in Libya, Tunisia and elsewhere started out as popular uprisings; many of the rebels in Syria continue to fight, and often die, for human rights and democracy. But, as time has gone by, other agendas are coming into play, and other interests have sought to assert themselves. The statecraft of Saudi Arabia demonstrates how complex the situation has become. The gerontocracy which governs that desert kingdom will never countenance internal opposition. Indeed, Saudi troops marched into Bahrain to suppress the democracy movement there. On the other hand, the Saudis backed the Libyan rebels and are reportedly active in the destabilisation of President Assad.

This deeply reactionary monarchy remains Britain and America’s closest ally in the Middle East. As the Arab Spring has unfolded, we have encouraged the Saudis to develop a makeshift alliance that embraces Qatar, Jordan, the Israelis, al-Qaeda and, it would seem, elements of the Muslim Brotherhood, who have very strong historical reasons for wishing to dislodge the Assad regime, in the light of its brutal crushing of the Brotherhood-inspired revolt in Hama 30 years ago. All members of this alliance would agree that they want the Shiite-Allawi regime in Syria to be replaced by some form of majority Sunni rule. Britain and America hope this would be democratic; doubtless al-Qaeda and its Saudi allies have something else in mind. Ranged on the other side are Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas and Iraq’s al-Maliki government. In Iraq, many of the Awakening Councils (the militia set up by the US six years ago to defeat al-Qaeda) now feel betrayed and are said to have joined forces again with their Sunni brethren.

The situation could hardly be more dangerous or more complex. Yet, in recent public pronouncements David Cameron has repeatedly spoken of the conflict in Syria as a struggle between an illegal and autocratic regime at war with what he likes to call “the people”. Either he is poorly briefed, or he is coming dangerously close to a calculated deception of the British public. For the situation is far more complicated than he has admitted. It is far from obvious, for example, even that a majority of Syrians are opposed to the Assad regime. Russia calculates that perhaps two thirds of Syrians are still broadly supportive, and it is worth recalling that Russia was a more accurate source of information in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq than either Britain or the US.

Foreign policy is perhaps the area where David Cameron’s Government has copied New Labour most closely. Mr Cameron shares much of Tony Blair’s slavish adherence to American foreign policy aims, especially in the Middle East. Like Mr Blair, he wilfully simplifies intractable foreign policy decisions and has shown a fondness for overseas adventures. In Syria, British rhetoric may raise expectations among the opposition which we can never satisfy.

Meanwhile, in Libya there are menacing signs that last year’s Anglo-French intervention is starting to go wrong. The toppling of the Gaddafi regime has not brought an end to the killing. If anything, the fighting appears to be getting worse, as the country breaks into hostile armed fractions – a fertile hunting ground for al-Qaeda, our latest collaborator in the war on terror. I hope that the Prime Minister and his Foreign Secretary, William Hague, know what they are doing as they allow Britain to be dragged closer towards further intervention in the Middle East. But judging from their public remarks they may be playing a game whose rules they do not fully understand.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #645 on: February 19, 2012, 04:00:05 pm »
I just found out that Santorum is a Catholic. Oh, the shame! It was always a comfort to me, previously,  that the US evangelicals/Protestants  more commonly exhibited the more loony attitudes of the Religious Right. Now, I have come to realise that even RCs can be just as bad. I mean, this sicko Santorum is in favour of banning abortion even in the case of rape or incest.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #646 on: February 19, 2012, 11:39:18 pm »
if the voters can only vote if they are above a certain IQ and have minimum social mores etc.(ie are not conmen or bank-robbers or whatever), and if the elected officials/politicians are also forced to maintain a similiar high standard in order to be eligible to stand, then things are fine. A monarchy can also be stable provided there are enough royals to choose from(perhaps royals could be forced to become polygamists?) - then the right royal could be elected(like in the Holy Roman Empire).
OK, so one of your voting requirements is IQ level. So all who want to vote would be given IQ tests and you would presumably need a new government agency to administer the tests, or perhaps add it as another responsibility of the public high school education system or other existing government agency. There would also need to be government agents of some sort to investigate corruption to prevent the testing authorities from selling passing IQ scores, either a new government position or a new task for the FBI, perhaps.

In the USA voting rights are a states rights issue and it's already the case that incarcerated con artists and bank robbers cannot vote in any state but two and fourteen states ban anyone with a felony conviction from voting for life, even after they have served their sentence. So what if any other measures would you add to ensure minimal "social mores" among voters? Would you federalize the requirements?

Is the Holy Roman Empire the closest historical thing to your idea of a good government and Charles V the sort of leader you desire?

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"We and the terror group have come to share the same hostility to the Iraqi prime minister Nouri al-Maliki, and for very much the same reason: we both agree that he takes his orders from Tehran. ....

Meanwhile, in Libya there are menacing signs that last year’s Anglo-French intervention is starting to go wrong. The toppling of the Gaddafi regime has not brought an end to the killing. If anything, the fighting appears to be getting worse, as the country breaks into hostile armed fractions – a fertile hunting ground for al-Qaeda, our latest collaborator in the war on terror." --Peter Oborne
This is one of the problems with foreign interventions--unintended consequences. How ironic that the US government is now at odds with the dude we helped bring to power, who is allied with the newest target of the Neocons--Iran. The Neocons have been as self destructive as a committed fifth column designed to destroy the USA, what with their getting us to drain our treasury, demoralize our military and create enemies around the world, including enemies we help install. 

Now, I have come to realise that even RCs can be just as bad. I mean, this sicko Santorum is in favour of banning abortion even in the case of rape or incest.
The Vatican has been vehemently opposed to allowing abortion in any circumstance since before you were born. Many of the laity ignore the vatican on this, but there has been a resurgence of right-wing Catholicism in this country, via such movements as "Catholic traditionalism" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_Catholic and Catholic monarchism, and via such organizations as Opus Dei and the Society of St Pius X and with a prominent promoter in Mel Gibson, some of whom believe that even the pope is not sufficiently orthodox per their standards. Santorum even sent two of his sons to an Opus Dei-affiliated school (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/01/opus-dei/47349/) and he has praised Opus Dei as part of a "new evangelization" (http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/2012/01/08/rick-santorum-opus-dei/).
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>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #647 on: February 20, 2012, 12:21:04 am »
The pro-life movement within the RC Church only got started somewhere in the 19th century. It is not necessarily an essential part of RC doctrine.

For my own part, I absolutely despise the post-Vatican-II RC Church. They are so blatantly leftist that they make me puke. I mean, these psychotic retards invented the "Marxist Liberation Theology" which has ruined South America for decades. I'd rather have had Lefebvre as Pope, if he'd still been alive.

No, I don't view the HRE as a desirable entity as it had too little power. But Peter the Great, Catherine the Great etc. are wonderful examples of what I mean.....

As regards IQ tests, we would obviously need morality tests and competence tests as well. No doubt, we would need a Federal department for monitoring that, but the increase in individuality caused by all these reforms would mean less government bureaucracy overall.

"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #648 on: February 20, 2012, 12:35:39 am »
Cheers
Al

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Ron Paul for President of the USA
« Reply #649 on: February 20, 2012, 02:28:03 am »
The pro-life movement within the RC Church only got started somewhere in the 19th century. It is not necessarily an essential part of RC doctrine.
Unless you're super-old, the 19th century is before you were born, like I said. :) Opposition to all abortion is an official position of the Vatican and all traditionalist Catholic groups I'm familiar with, so I'm still puzzled why you're surprised that a conservative Catholic like Santorum would promote it. I could understand that with a liberal Catholic Democratic politician like when Geraldine Ferraro ran for vice president, but a conservative Republican candidate like Santorum who's trying to get the support of Theocons, both traditionalist Catholics and evangelical Protestants?

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No, I don't view the HRE as a desirable entity as it had too little power. But Peter the Great, Catherine the Great etc. are wonderful examples of what I mean.....
So the most effective Tsarist regimes are your favorite historical examples of good government? You could do worse, but playing Devil's Advocate, what about the fact that they were eventually followed by Nicholas II and then the Communists? It's the same problem that Cherimoya_kid and I pointed out before--benevolent and effective dictators are often eventually followed by loathesome regimes, whom the people have no nonviolent way of removing.

You do also seem somewhat favorably inclined toward the HRE and Charles V, just not as much as toward the premier Tsars, correct?

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As regards IQ tests, we would obviously need morality tests and competence tests as well. No doubt, we would need a Federal department for monitoring that, but the increase in individuality caused by all these reforms would mean less government bureaucracy overall.
What would the morality and competence tests be composed of? Has there ever been a government-created morality test? How would the reduction in bureaucracy come about? Do you think these tests would result in a more libertarian electorate? How would you get the Libertarians to support these tests and the new bureaucracy to manage them? What if this new elite should vote for leaders you despise?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 02:33:30 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

 

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