Population Debate Thread

[CitrusHigh]

Lol! Too right GS!

It's moot anyway, while they seem to have the best of intentions, we will either flourish and get our shit together or we'll die out in yet another mass extinction, what, the fifth or sixth for this planet now at least?

[eveheart]

This August 9th Mentos calls on you* to celebrate not just National Day, but National Night too..." 

So, in Singapore, kissing begins with a candy mint, and the chicks think about $900 strollers when they think of sexual intercourse? So sorry to hear that.

[Neone]

Can someone explain to me the thought process behind your children being your immortality or however it is thought of.  What does the mix of your genetics have to do with escaping oblivion..?

[TylerDurden]

Not much. The notion behind having tons of children is futile as the human race will perish, c. 300 million years from now, as organic lifeforms will never  have the capacity for interstellar flight.

[goodsamaritan]

Can someone explain to me the thought process behind your children being your immortality or however it is thought of.  What does the mix of your genetics have to do with escaping oblivion..?

The meaning of life is to make more life.
Survival of the fittest... and another criteria is those who choose to reproduce.

I do not believe in an immortal soul (for those who are religious).
What I do believe is we live through our descendants.
It's a relay race.  You pass it on and on and on.
So my ancestors live through me.
Trace your bloodline.  Make your family tree.
Does your personal bloodline die out? Or flourish?
What does blood family mean to you? Parents, Children, grandchildren, Brothers, sisters, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc.

It used to be that a nice greeting was "May your tribe increase!"

In ultra overcrowded urban settings... that may be an insult.

The ultra urban people have forgotten the basics of life, they are supreme EXTREMISTS at the opposite side of the pendulum swing and they do not know it.  Voluntary extinction, abortions, euthanasia, gmo suicide food, condoms = safe sex, to singapore whose young people have to be taught the basics of dating, that pairing up is good and basic human sexuality.

In the movie TERMINATOR, the robot terminator cannot self terminate.  Yet millions of brainwashed people today are into murdering their own children they deceive themselves by calling "choice" / abortion.

You detach yourself from your current urban programming, just as you detached yourself from western medical programming / nutrition.  You look at human history and pre-history to our wish and celebration to survive to thrive.  Voluntary human extinction is such an extremist stupid not even trying to survive crap slave to the overpopulation notion.  We should be reaching for the stars instead of thinking Earth is the only island we can live on.

Every human for himself then.  It has always been that way.  Those who wish to be voluntarily extinct... let them.  Those of us who wish to survive, let us, and let us protect our own descendants from the depopulationists... pushy brainwashing attitudes.

Life must go on, life will go on.
Those depopulationists want human population to be 500 million to 1 billion tops.
Some of us AIM to be those survivors, part of the 500 million.
The first step is having real sex, spread your bets to many children, take care of those children... see to it they make children themselves... back to the basics of being human.

[TylerDurden]

The trouble is that the survival of the fittest hasn't been happening since well before the end of the Palaeolithic era. Now, it's more like survival of the weakest/fattest etc, given the welfare state and the ease with which humans can survive nowadays due to  advancing medical technology etc. In a few thousand years, the human future will inevitably resemble the film "Idiocracy"/EM Forster's novella "The Machine Stops", but there won't be any successors, humans will just become extinct. It's inevitable  - think about it, such a fate for all organic lifeforms would easily explain why we have never encountered or communicated with aliens.

[cherimoya_kid]

Not much. The notion behind having tons of children is futile as the human race will perish, c. 300 million years from now, as organic lifeforms will never  have the capacity for interstellar flight.

Who needs interstellar flight?  With good enough technology, populating Mars, Pluto, and the moons of Jupiter and Saturn wouldn't be too difficult.

[TylerDurden]

Who needs interstellar flight?  With good enough technology, populating Mars, Pluto, and the moons of Jupiter and Saturn wouldn't be too difficult.

Mars would still be too close for comfort once the Sun became a red giant and swallowed the Earth. And terraforming the moons of the larger planets would be a problem, with the gravity issue unlikely to ever be solved. The only consolation is that the Sun will never go nova, but the answer to the Fermi Paradox is that there are periodic supernovas and gamma ray bursts  occurring all over the place which  wipe out all life in their vicinity. Without interstellar travel, the human race is doomed.

[Neone]

Ahh, GS.. If you follow the family history of anyone back far enough, don't we all pretty much come from the same place?  So really your genetic lineage has the same root as mine?  I dont unerstand what your super special DNA means, unless you think that the shape of your face is important? 

[goodsamaritan]

Ahh, GS.. If you follow the family history of anyone back far enough, don't we all pretty much come from the same place?  So really your genetic lineage has the same root as mine?  I dont unerstand what your super special DNA means, unless you think that the shape of your face is important? 

Nothing special other than the will to actually live and do something about it.  A sign of life is life reproduces. 

[Neone]

I believe you can have a will to live, while exercising a concious choice to not reproduce (you can still have unprotected sex and not have children with the use of simple natural techniques).

I look at it as things like Bacteria and Animals will reproduce without any thought to the future consequences. 

The people here are kind of saying that there isnt enough to go around and if we keep on reproducing like we are now, then times are going to get very tough for everybody.  Is that the kind of future you want for your children? one of survival of the fittest?

You keep on saying Survival of the Fittest GS, what exactly does that mean to you?  And do you consider your genetics superior? or are you just passing them on because they are yours and you want to?

I guess I am just trying to understand what your goal is with booming the population more.
I feel like my ideals are centered around the planet and humanity as a whole, where I personally am not as important as i like to think.
Your thinking just seems to be 'real sex is good sex; more life is better; I like babies"

[goodsamaritan]

Please go back to what i wrote.
I explained my personal philosophy in its entirety.
Including what you just asked.

[cherimoya_kid]

Mars would still be too close for comfort once the Sun became a red giant and swallowed the Earth. And terraforming the moons of the larger planets would be a problem, with the gravity issue unlikely to ever be solved. The only consolation is that the Sun will never go nova, but the answer to the Fermi Paradox is that there are periodic supernovas and gamma ray bursts  occurring all over the place which  wipe out all life in their vicinity. Without interstellar travel, the human race is doomed.

Mars would not be too close.  We could simply move into underground caves to avoid the Sun's heat.

You are also assuming we will never master controlling gravity.  You might be right, but I doubt it.

[TylerDurden]

Mars would not be too close.  We could simply move into underground caves to avoid the Sun's heat.

You are also assuming we will never master controlling gravity.  You might be right, but I doubt it.

Many disagree:-

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100316061038AApfgoR

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110106195408AAbfG2j

Basically, we humans are perfectly adapted to Earth-like conditions. Surviving on Mars would require vast amounts of water, oxygen etc. which just isn't there. And terraforming is such a  massive undertaking that it appears logistically impossible.

[goodsamaritan]

Humans will try and try.

[TylerDurden]

Humans will try and try.

Current evidence indicates the opposite.  The best thing would be for humans to build Strong AI as the latter is the only kind that can ever reach the stars.

[goodsamaritan]

So lets remind each other to revisit this interstellar travel thing in 50 years, shall we?  We are raw paleo dieters so we can hope to all be alive in 50 years.

[CitrusHigh]

Lol, bumped in to this today while I was looking at ways for a friend to get in to a cow head she is going to broth...

"5. Do I have to kill myself?

Of course you don't have to kill yourself! If you really want to, though, wait until after you've joined the Church. That way, you automatically become a saint, without any additional paperwork. Don't forget to leave a note thanking and/or blaming the Church, and feel free to will us your estate, if you have one. "

http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/coefaq.html

[TylerDurden]

Well, humans cannot survive in space, but one species can, albeit not forever:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2207828/This-bug--The-indestructible-micro-animals-survive-vacuum-space--blood.html

[goodsamaritan]

Current evidence indicates the opposite.  The best thing would be for humans to build Strong AI as the latter is the only kind that can ever reach the stars.

Seems the technology to colonize the solar system is here and now.

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/space-travel-free-energy-nanotech-etc-keshe-foundation/