High Meat

[miles]

What kind of microorganisms should be in high-meat? Can any type of meat, organ or muscle be used to make high-meat? Does it have to be sealed like in a glass jar..? Would it be best to put it in salt-water like with sauerkraut? What should high-meat look and smell like..? Could someone experienced with high-meat tell me if there are any types of meat which don't work? I've tried to hang kidneys, and also inner skirt of beef, and they don't dry out like most muscle meat does, some parts stay moist, those parts become really nasty smelling/tasting and it spreads across the dry parts too... Smells/tastes bad.. Similarly, perhaps there are also some meats which do not work for high-meat as well..

I have a bad gut micro-organism balance and I want to sort it out so I want to make some good pro-biotic foods. I'm going to make a load of sauerkraut, but I'm wondering about high-meat as well.

I now have a wardrobe where I can hang meat on meat-hooks. I have smoked a large sheet of cotton and hung it over the wardrobe, and also put a bowl of strong-smelling herbs, spices, pepper and garlic inside. I found that the fridge environment was supporting fungal growth on my meat(cool, damp...)(also low oxygen). I noticed this much more when I started using a separate fridge - because it was opened much less frequently.

[eveheart]

I fitted the vegetable bins in my refrigerator with meat racks, so the meat sits on skewers of bamboo, letting air circulate. This way, I can make solid high meat (not aged until liquid). I set the meat in the drawers in big steak-slabs slabs, not tiny chunks. The meat-in-jars method was too high maintenance for me. From what I've read, the meat bacteria is not the same as fermented-vegetable wild fermentation, but it is the right bacteria for meat. I make fermented vegetables, too usually opting for a kimchi-styled mixture, which is fermented in seasoning of garlic, onion, hot peppers,etc. It's been hard to learn about meat fermentation online because you usually get information about meat products like salami or bologna, which actually is a form of carbohydrate fermentation, because of the carbs that are incorporated in the meat mixture. However, I have come across a few articles which named the meat bacteria, and it's different from the veggie ones.

Fatty meat, like inner skirt, doesn't dry like a lean cut - the fat itself doesn't dry. But, one of my favorite treats is beef fat that has been hung in my $10 Jerky Dryer (a la Lex's instructions). It taste like a paleo version of a snack food you'd buy in the 7-Eleven. 

[miles]

There is not that much fat, but the fat is not the problem anyway, the fat is fine. It's where there is bio-tubing and stuff. Where some tubing is, it stays moist and goes nasty - the same thing happened with ox kidney I tried to hang, because it's moist, some parts didn't dry out, and in those bits some nasty bacteria bred - the same bacteria as on the inner skirt. It doesn't stay where it is though, but spreads all across the parts of the meat which have dried. There are nutrients in organs and tubing which stop them from drying out. Inner skirt also has some of these nutrients in the meat, because it's closer to the organs, as well as in the tubing attached to it.

[raw-al]

Interesting evehart.

I have it in bottles but it is definitely high maintenance. I like the idea of just putting it in the fridge. That eliminates the stick?

[KD]

What kind of microorganisms should be in high-meat? Can any type of meat, organ or muscle be used to make high-meat? Does it have to be sealed like in a glass jar..? Would it be best to put it in salt-water like with sauerkraut? What should high-meat look and smell like..? Could someone experienced with high-meat tell me if there are any types of meat which don't work? I've tried to hang kidneys, and also inner skirt of beef, and they don't dry out like most muscle meat does, some parts stay moist, those parts become really nasty smelling/tasting and it spreads across the dry parts too... Smells/tastes bad.. Similarly, perhaps there are also some meats which do not work for high-meat as well..

I have a bad gut micro-organism balance and I want to sort it out so I want to make some good pro-biotic foods. I'm going to make a load of sauerkraut, but I'm wondering about high-meat as well.

I don't know the first answer but I can give a go to the rest. My belief is in order to 'culture' something its going to have to be in a controlled environment...like the jar. With hanging and ageing meat, it will break down of course but without knowing too much of the details - has to be somewhat different as a process. Alot of the traditional methods allowed for some kind of inclosure/festering so to speak with some system of airflow to refresh the system. Of course in nature an animal will just rot but even this I imagine is different in results to 'modern' high-meats which is more akin to 'medicine' - thus man-made quantities/types of stuff.

the lacto-fermentation of sauerkraut or kimchi is indeed different..but just as an analogy..no rotting cabbage will produce sauerkraut.

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I have some organs going for the first time but havn't eaten anything but heart that way in the past. I think rawzi has made them out of nearly everything?

I have fish going now. tastes and smells almost entirely like feces, somehow not in a bad way. err somehow not in a super-bad way. Some fridge settings have impeded me in the past personally - resulting in condensation and other poor conditions

if you are looking for a quicker probiotic, kefir or yogurt (even pasteruized) do indeed work in a pinch. Relatively small amounts in temporary fashion might be enough. Regardless of ones opinions on dairy foods, it is not true that these do not aid in meat/fruit diets.

[raw]

I am raising a different question about high meat here....anyone knows the best microscope to use to see those high meat microorganisms at home? I spend already a good amount of money and time doing this research. I amaze to see rainbow like colored pattern, but not any moving objects. It would be facinating if I can see them moving...

Using clay pot instead of glass jar is an interesting way to make high meat. Many tribes all over the world use clay pots to do that.

[raw-al]

I am raising a different question about high meat here....anyone knows the best microscope to use to see those high meat microorganisms at home? I spend already a good amount of money and time doing this research. I amaze to see rainbow like colored pattern, but not any moving objects. It would be facinating if I can see them moving...

Using clay pot instead of glass jar is an interesting way to make high meat. Many tribes all over the world use clay pots to do that.

Sheep's guts seem to be popular.

[eveheart]

Interesting evehart.

I have it in bottles but it is definitely high maintenance. I like the idea of just putting it in the fridge. That eliminates the stick?

I got the idea of non-jar high meat from this post from sabertooth, but I modified it to vegetable bins to fit in the with urban kitchen motif of my life:

I am going to make a shift away from Jar made high meat and try to open air age most of my meats. I have been using jar high meat and I notice that many of the batches just turn out foul tasting and seem to be overrun with white molds , while my open air aged meats turn out wonderfully grey with a layer of tasty slime.

I get a thick cut of meat going in one vegetable bin going while I am eating the aged meat from the other vegetable bin, so I always have something slimy to eat. The bamboo skewer slats keep the meet from contacting the plastic of the bin and allow air to circulate all around the meat. The meat surface dries out somewhat, but not so much that the delightful slime effect is ruined.

[Ioanna]

I get a thick cut of meat going in one vegetable bin going while I am eating the aged meat from the other vegetable bin, so I always have something slimy to eat. The bamboo skewer slats keep the meet from contacting the plastic of the bin and allow air to circulate all around the meat. The meat surface dries out somewhat, but not so much that the delightful slime effect is ruined.

picture, please

[eveheart]

1/2" PVC frame drilled with holes to accomodate BBQ bamboo skewers. Picture taken with a thin 1-pound steak, but capacity is about a 4 pound thick cut of steak like a top round steak. http://www.flickr.com/photos/90487287@N00/6167865843/

PS How do I put an image in my post? I see the IMG button, but I didn't know what to write inside.

[RawZi]

I have some organs going for the first time but havn't eaten anything but heart that way in the past. I think rawzi has made them out of nearly everything?

    I have fermented successfully raw pineapple and other fruit, cabbage and other vegetables normally without spices or herbs, cooked soybeans, raw spring-wheat sprouts and other grain, sesame and other seeds, filberts and other nuts, cooked and raw milk, raw grass-fed grain-fed and forage milk from A1 and A2 cow nanny-goat and ewe, cow cream, bison meat, goat, chicken, pork, fish, shrimp, scallop, and presently I have liver, kidney, thyroid, swordfish and tuna at over a year in the fridge which I will eat soon. I have previously fermented bison at basement temp in clay-pot.  I haven't really buried foods or intentionally done eggs or eyes, but I've done other glands and organs.  I haven't tried fermenting with salt.  I haven't used dairy starter successfully on meat or other foods.  I have almost always fermented dairy without any kind of starter, an exception of course was the cooked.  I like high-meats, they feel so good, even if them make my hands smell when I touch them.

[sabertooth]

I have been moving away from jar high meats and have just been aging meats in a fridge that I have dedicated as a meat locker. I will quarter the whole animal and then put the pieces on the racks. I will set the humidity on high and then adjust the temperature depending on how I want the pieces to age. I don't completely drain the animal of blood, plus I cut of the limbs whole, I think this helps to keep the meat from getting too dry to get good bacterial growth.

The end results have been real tasty and I just love eating the limbs first cutting off only what I need each day. I have been leaving the torso for last and letting it age then dry until it has the most wonderfull flavor. Aged rib meat is my favorite.

[miles]

Sabertooth. With the moisture on high, don't you get fungal growth on the meat? I've actually moved a fan-heater into my meat-wardrobe in order to lower the humidity, and also cut up the moist neck meat and salt & peppered it. The moist neck meat was starting to get some fungal growth on it before I did this.

[raw-al]

1/2" PVC frame drilled with holes to accomodate BBQ bamboo skewers. Picture taken with a thin 1-pound steak, but capacity is about a 4 pound thick cut of steak like a top round steak. http://www.flickr.com/photos/90487287@N00/6167865843/

PS How do I put an image in my post? I see the IMG button, but I didn't know what to write inside.

I have a Mac computer so it may not be the same with your computer but here is how I add a picture.

Make sure the photo file size is less than 900 kb and it's file extension must be one that is acceptable to the raw paleo site.
When you have clicked on the "post reply" there is an option to the left below the area you type into that says "Additional Options".
Click on that.

Then the menu shows attach with a button beside it that shows "Choose File"

Click on that

Then in the menu that shows up you select the location of the picture on your hard drive or thumbdrive etc.

Then you locate the file wherever it is and double click on it. It should start to download.

That may take a bit of time.

[miles]

To produce most fermentation cultures care is taken to reduce exposure to air in order to prevent fungal growth. Salt is also usually added to protect the article until fermentation begins(or whey or other probiotic is used to jump-start the fermentation process), as after this point the fermentation by-products will protect the article. High-meat was made wrapped in leaves under ground, and now in sealed glass jars. So I would think meat must be dry to prevent growth of all micro-organisms if air-aged, or else if moist it would favour fungal growth. This is also my experience, though I have not attempted to age meat in jars, only exposed to air. So I've found that fungus grows if moist meat is exposed to air, though not when dry meat is exposed to air, but I don't know what happens if moist meat is aged away from air.

Meat will be moist if it has not first been hung for some period of time in dry air, though some types/cuts of meat do not dry unless certain parts are first removed, and some will never dry properly but putrefy.

[raw-al]

To produce most fermentation cultures care is taken to reduce exposure to air in order to prevent fungal growth. High-meat was made wrapped in leaves under ground, and now in sealed glass jars. So I would think meat must be dry to prevent growth of all micro-organisms if air-aged, or else if moist it would favour fungal growth. This is also my experience, though I have not attempted to age meat in jars, only exposed to air. So I've found that fungus grows if moist meat is exposed to air, though not when dry meat is exposed to air, but I don't know what happens if moist meat is aged away from air.

Meat will be moist if it has not first been hung for some period of time in dry air.

My understanding is that high meat must be aired regularly. If it is kept in an anaerobic container it will become dangerous.

[miles]

What does your(anyone's) high-meat taste like? Is the rot savoury or sweet, is it nice or nasty? I just had quite a lot of meat that had been hanging from a hook open to the air at room temperature which had gone off quite nastily after only 2 days. I mean, not much had actually happened to the meat, but the stuff which had happened(on the outside) was nasty.. There were a few different textures of meat and each texture had a different tasting rot but all were horrible and sickly-sweet tasting.. It was difficult to eat, but I don't have any other meat right now and I just pushed through eating it until it started turning me on which made it easier.

[raw-al]

It's an acquired taste. I can eat small amounts. My GF stopped eating it.

If kept in an enclosed bottle it stinks to high heaven and can only be opened outside the house.

[sabertooth]

All I can say is that I have been aging meat in a fridge all summer and have been having the most wonderfully flavored aged meat.

I set the humidity on high because if I don't the cool air that circulates in my fridge will make the meat to dry. The way I have it now seems to work perfectly. The outside gets a dry crust while the inside slowly ages. So far no abnormal or poisonous growths. The air in a fridge is constantly circulating so there isn't a problem with anaerobic molds and I keep it cool enough to prevent the meat from being completely rotted, so the end result is a slightly high meat that isn't too dry and taste wonderfull.

[eveheart]

Mine is very tasty and smells pleasantly strong - the surface of the meat is slimy, making my fingers and plate covered with a sticky brown coating. It does not taste or smell "gaggy" or disgusting. I much prefer the slimy meat over fresh meat. Someone who is odor-phobic would think my fridge smells strange, but not rotten.

The vegetable bins prevent the meat from drying in the fridge, but after a few weeks, some relative drying does occur. The slab of meat I brought home today weighs just under 5 pounds and is between 3" - 4" thick. I'll start eating it next week, and it will last about 3 weeks, getting more aged during that period. If I had more storage capacity, I'd buy larger cuts of meat.

[miles]

Well, my meat does not smell good, I have no problem with strong odours that are good, and this isn't... Why then is it that my meat goes bad and yours goes good? Do you think it's because of the other stuff you have in your fridge alongside it? Because of the handling prior to me receiving it? Or what..? In the fridge it went bad, and now in the cupboard it goes bad... Maybe it's this house? It's quite a damp, dusty house, if that could make a difference..

I've never heard any special rules for making aged meat, it's just hang it and leave it according to everyone here, but when I do that is just goes bad..

[sabertooth]

I dedicate an entire fridge to ageing whole limbs that I butcher myself, so there is no contamination from other food stuffs. The air in the fridge is constantly circulating and keeps the surface of the meat slightly dry and lets it age without rotting.