Danger of Overthinking/Obsession

[zeno]

I was reading another thread and came across this post:

The counter point to the over thinking argument is that none of us would have found this diet if we didn't do a lot more than average thinking about diet. The average person doesn't think about what they eat, and they eat SAD foods or whatever their parents brought them up to eat. The average person here who eats primarily RAF's has spent considerably more time thinking about diet.

Can you over think? Probably. Can you under think? Most definitely.

I realized that perhaps those who follow the SAD, those who graze about on whatever is available and whatever they please, are simply acting out a natural tendency. There seems to be a similarity between the way our ancestors most likely ate and those who don't worry about what they eat, in that it wasn't a process that was over-complicated by thought.

Lex discusses the idea of over-complication in another thread:

I think the whole premise is mostly nonsense. Our ancenstors didn't measure their blood glucose levels before deciding what to eat.  Neither did they agonize over whether they should combine fruits with fat, fat with protein, protein with fruit or eat all three together.  They ate what was available to them when they were hungry and they ate until either the food ran out or their hunger was satisfied.  To the best of my knowledge, no other animal agonizes over BG levels or food combining issues and all seem to do rather well when living their natural lifestyle.

Leave it to humans to overly complicate that which every other lifeform can do without giving a second thought - eat.  Makes one wonder how our species has survived this long.

Lex

So what has changed? Why must we feel the need to extrapolate, theorize and debate the minute details of nutrition? Its truly only the environment. Our ancestors most likely ate in a similar fashion to the way modern people eat--without too much thought--because there was food everywhere and the environment (and thus food) was pure. Now that civilization has tainted the environment and food supply, some of us feel inclined to constantly wonder about radiation fallout in the atmosphere, the HFCS content in our beverages and the omega 3 and omega 6 ratio in our foods. Although many of us here have good reason to worry about nutrition and the environment, we would also benefit from learning from our modern-day counterparts who are much more careless and therefore exert less energy worrying over trivialities.

I brought this topic up just to provide perspective. I know that since I learned about the difference in organic and conventional agriculture I've become much more obsessive about my health and the state of the environment to the point where I may be worrying too much.

I suppose that some of you have already realized this, but too much attention to detail can be detrimental to mental health. Perhaps the best advice is to experiment and find something that works for you and just stick with it until it doesn't. This seems to be a theme on the boards. Worrying about results and so forth will just exhaust you mentally. 

[eveheart]

I've come across the term orthorexia. (more properly orthorexia nervosa), sometimes discussed in this forum. It's the obession with eating healthy foods. When I hear this mental disorder speaking in the lunchroom, in the media, and elsewhere, it sounds like the new Babel - our conversation is confounded by divergent thinking and pointless complexity concerning the minutiae of our bodies' nutritional needs. Overthinking and obsession are the new Opiates of the Masses.

[RogueFarmer]

I think it's backlash for how we have mindlessly been shoving food down our throats.

Even people who eat only plants or no meat, are almost always in complete blissful ignorance of the way their food is being produced. Some people are even producing the food, but are ignorant or in denial of the harm their methods are causing.

What goes around comes around
 

[goodsamaritan]

The counter point to the over thinking argument is that none of us would have found this diet if we didn't do a lot more than average thinking about diet. The average person doesn't think about what they eat, and they eat SAD foods or whatever their parents brought them up to eat. The average person here who eats primarily RAF's has spent considerably more time thinking about diet.

Can you over think? Probably. Can you under think? Most definitely.

I'm on the side of Kyle on this one.

As an engineer, healer, programmer, problem solver, it's my thing to think and solve and give solutions to previously unsolvable, incurable things.

When you have a sick person who's not getting well with the usual holistic stuff, you think of other things you missed.

Say when I got sick and my entire family was sick, I discovered our house was sick and our roof was leaking fine dust from the 2009 flood.  Who would have thought of that?  But I had to... or else.

[eveheart]

I like to make a distinction between profound thinking to solve a problem and overthinking/obsession. iI draw the line when the thinking becomes mentally obtrusive.

[zeno]

I did a quick search and found this thread created by Nicola which mirrors the intent of creating this thread.

[zeno]

After reading through caveman's recent Raw Dairy Journal I decided to contact him to see how he has been while living in Switzerland, if his diet has changed and how. I felt the conversation suited this thread.

Dear Caveman,

After reading through your raw dairy journal I, too, decided to experiment with raw dairy. Coincidentally, your diet mirrors the milk diet (a diet that consists of purely milk) quite considerably. Brady has been experimenting with the diet and has recorded his results on the Raw Paleo Diet Forum. Both your account, Brady's account, and the book entitled The Miracle of Milk (Macfadden) have inspired me to experiment with a milk diet.

I wanted to thank you for recording your experiment. I've been having issues with eating tons of raw meat (goat, lamb and beef) and wasn't sure how to resolve it. I thought dairy was unnecessary but now I'm learning that it may be suitable for me for the time being. With the meat, I always felt that I wasn't getting enough of something and would overeat to compensate. Hopefully the experiment will go well such as yours.

I would love to hear how your regiment has changed since your experiment with dairy. Have you weaned yourself of milk? Have you introduced solid foods, such as beef, again?

Again, thank you for the inspiration!

Sincerely,

zeno

Hi zeno, nice to hear from you!

I have to let you know, I had been going through a tough time in my life and I was very confused. I was actually spiritiually and emtionally sick and stressed and thought I was physically sick. The symptoms may have sure been there, and I know that is how it works now, but I also know now that the cure for me has nothing to do with diet. It did seem that I managed much better while doing the raw dairy, and I must say it was delicious of course. Diet should have been my last concern in all of these past years, though.

Physically, the only real downside to the raw dairy/milk diet was the "bloating" and what appeared to be something like high blood pressure. I think there was way too much fluid going into my body. My stomach would feel so hard and full and I would feel my heart beating faster and harder. Sometimes I thought it gave me an energy boost in that way. Maybe it did something to my testosterone levels as well, but most likely those benefits are completely unnecessary for me.

I learned the hard way that no extreme diet will do me any good at this point in my life. If I may become very ill with something, I know I will go back to some raw paleo dieting if the case is right for it, but the fact is that I am physically healthy and so are a lot of us who can easily become confused. We are one system. I believe that our mental and spiritual health should be regarded as priority in any case. It is more important than being some kind of "food fascist" or however you would like to say it.

I have been back in my home country of Switzerland and I have learned to enjoy life and find the beauty in it. I like to consider what I do "modern instincto", but the point is to not stress over anything and enjoy. This is what I had come to because it was right for me.

Let me know if you have any other questions, I am always glad to answer.

Enjoy and live well!

Dear Caveman,

I can appreciate your perspective. Perhaps it was living in the U.S. which caused your problems. This country can be stressful and extreme (lacking balance). I seem to be suffering from that as well (lacking balance). However, I do enjoy raw foods and have done well by cutting out fruit. But, like others, I would say the enjoyment of a warm meal may null any harm in eating cooked food. Unless one's health is terrible, worrying about what to eat all the time could cause more harm.

So does that mean now you eat as you please--cooked foods and raw foods? Does your diet exhibit any staples? Do you avoid any foods (fruits or beef because you are blood type A)?

Thank you for responding to my letter! It's great to hear your perspective. I'm glad you feel balanced in your present condition!


Sincerely,

zeno

Dear zeno,

I do eat whatever I desire. I do follow a kind of staple on local organic and "dark" breads, mainly made with spelt. I feel like it does me good. I used to think I had a gluten intolerance and I even showed symptoms of other food allergies like to lemons for example. This all went away when I heightened my vibrations. I learned to stop looking at myself in the mirror, to give myself more love and respect and to live in the moment. You could say a lot of anxiety may have caused most of my problems. I am still working on it, but it is much better. I just try to eat real food and go for quality instead of confining my choices. I avoid what does not feel right either way.

[Ferocious]

I agree that we should eat what we know is healthy with our knowledge now, but not obsess over it. Obsessing will cause what we are trying to avoid in the first place, bad health. It is true that every cell in our body is eavesdropping on our thoughts. Just eat!

[billy4184]

I always found it very annoying to think about what I ate, because it seemed silly. But health issues forced me to take a good look my diet. I always had a dozen weet-bix in milk for breakfast before school, and for years I wondered why I was so foggy and tired during the morning. Same for my deteriorating teeth. Now I know, but if I hadn't forced myself to think, I would never have known.
Also, Im a competitive person, and for me it is the highest of values to be the best I can be. When I feel down, if I can look at my body and my mind and be happy with what I am and what I've done, then I can never be beaten. Some people are happy to be overweight and beset by chronic illnesses, as long as they can enjoy a pizza in front of the TV, and thats OK but not for me.
I do think that it is possible to be obsessed. The same way a bodybuilder can be obsessed with how they look. At some point, if there is nothing more to be gained by dieting carefully, one has to simply move on to other things. But if doors are still opening, then there's no reason to stop.

[Dorothy]

When does interest and fascination become obsession and when does it become negative? I tend to delve into a subject with intensity, to learn, to explore in attempts to make my life more full - better - or just enjoy the pursuit. I've done this on many subjects over the course of my lifetime and things that I was "obsessed with" 20 or 30 or more years ago and dropped entirely still nourish me and enhance my life. If you have never been so into an exploration that it didn't run away with much of your thoughts and get you so excited that you wanted run with it as much and as often as possible - I highly suggest you find something that opens yours heart and your eyes to that degree and try flying with it.

Most of the people that stand out in history, the arts,science and most great human accomplishments were the ones that found what obsessed them the most the earliest in life so that they could spend the amount of time and energy necessary to go all the way on one subject. I think they are some of the luckiest people in the world.
   

[billy4184]

Let me put it this way:
In modern times people are overweight, sugar-addicted, white bread addicted, gluten intolerant, lactose intolerant, diabetic, alcoholic, caffeine addicted, depressive, aggressive, and generally function on a cocktail of weight control pills, sleeping pills, antidepressants and litres of coffee. Its ruining the human culture, and it has  everything to do with diet. How about the heavy metals, hundreds of toxic pesticides, artificial sweeteners, food additives, colourings and preservatives that routinely kill mice in the labs but somehow find their way into EVERY food staple in the SAD diet?
I don't call it being obsessed, its trying to survive relatively sane. The ancestors were damn lucky not to have to worry about this kind of thing.
Cheers

[Dorothy]

Let me put it this way:
In modern times people are overweight, sugar-addicted, white bread addicted, gluten intolerant, lactose intolerant, diabetic, alcoholic, caffeine addicted, depressive, aggressive, and generally function on a cocktail of weight control pills, sleeping pills, antidepressants and litres of coffee. Its ruining the human culture, and it has a everything to do with diet. How about the heavy metals, hundreds of toxic pesticides, artificial sweeteners, food additives, colourings and preservatives that routinely kill mice in the labs but somehow find their way into EVERY food staple in the SAD diet?
I don't call it being obsessed, its trying to survive relatively sane. The ancestors were damn lucky not to have to worry about this kind of thing.
Cheers

Oh yeah, then there's that too Billy.
Well said.

[balancing-act]

Check. Surviving sanely, and ideally blissful, amidst the utter insanity.