7 weeks on an all Raw Milk Diet

[PaleoPhil]

too acidic (tired, dehydrated, anxious) so I wanted to look at taking a more Alkaline diet.

I'm pretty sure the sweating was my Adrenals starting up again as I felt so much better and more alert, libido also increased.  And sure it will be detoxing as well, when you don't sweat in 3 years your body accumulates a lot of poison.

No obvoious problems with the honey apart from the expense and now that I've stopped I realise that it was contributing to the over acidity I described.  Raw Honey is a strange thing, its obviously does aid in the digestion of animal foods given the fact it brought me back from the dead but it does seem to contribute to some health issues at the same time, I'll maybe play with it a little more.

By acidic, do you mean acidifying foods that produce acidic ash after you digest them or foods that are acidic in your mouth and stomach when you ingest them (in other words, they have a low pH)? These are two entirely different and unrelated factors. As a matter of fact, acidic foods like raw honey tend to be alkaline, not acidifying and indeed raw honey is alkaline (ie, it produces alkaline ash):

"An alkaline-forming food, this type of honey contains ingredients similar to those found in fruits, which become alkaline in the digestive system." http://www.benefits-of-honey.com/raw-honey.html (see also the chart at http://www.alkaline-alkaline.com/ph_food_chart.html,

"unprocessed raw honey has been classfified as an alkaline-forming food. (Processed honey is only little acidifying" http://arthritisreviews.com/apple-cider-vinegar-and-honey-remedy-for-arthritis

Some believe that the sugar in honey offsets the alkaline ash, producing a net acidifying effect, but even if true, I'll bet that is offset by fermentation: "Honey and raw sugars produce alkaline ash, but because of a high concentrate of sugar become acid-formers" http://www.angelfire.com/az/sthurston/acid_alkaline_foods_list.html

I don't know if this is related to your dehydration problem on your pound-of-honey-a-day diet you reported or not, but I found that unfermented raw honey dries my skin, whereas fermented raw honey clears up any dry skin on my face and reduces scalp flakes for me.

[monkeysee]

Not to hijack this thread, but I've been on a mostly-milk diet for more than a year now.  In the first 6 to 9 months, it was even more "mostly".  The last month or two has been less.

My mostly-milk diet consisted of drinking a half-gallon of whole raw milk from Organic Pastures Dairy.  I might have a non-milk meal of some sort at home in the evening, but it was very small.  I started as a 165-170lb adult; the milk only provided 1250 kcal/day, so I was also essentially dieting, but that was not the intent.  A year+ later, I'm at 154.  I was going to drink a gallon a day and try to live on nothing but that, but it was hard to push it all down.  I'd also develop "cravings" to chew something, didn't matter what; adding raw eggs to the diet did not satisfy the need to chew.  Sometimes I'd add extra cream (from OPD), or have a banana+milk+cream shake, but the bananas+milk can be constipating.

These days I still drink a half-gallon a day, on average, but have additional food for breakfast and/or dinner, not strictly raw.

Typically I consume the milk after letting it warm up from the fridge for several hours, and I never put it back in the fridge, but I can handle the milk cold, too.  I am unable to drink pasteurized or otherwise cooked milk.

I could talk about this at length, for those interested.  I experienced many healthy changes.

[zeno]

I could talk about this at length, for those interested.  I experienced many healthy changes.

I presume that these changes have been mostly beneficial or otherwise you wouldn't have continued this diet. Is that so?

Also, on this urge to chew, have you considered including foods like raw meat rather than eggs or bananas? Do you enjoy the milk so much that you haven't thought of transitioning away from milk? Or, at the least drinking less of it?

[monkeysee]

I presume that these changes have been mostly beneficial or otherwise you wouldn't have continued this diet. Is that so?

Yes, healthy, as in beneficial, changes.  If there are negative consequences, I'm not feeling them.

Also, on this urge to chew, have you considered including foods like raw meat rather than eggs or bananas? Do you enjoy the milk so much that you haven't thought of transitioning away from milk? Or, at the least drinking less of it?

Yes, I've eaten raw meat, which I wrote a little about in some earlier posts, but I have not in the last month or so.
I started drinking raw, grassfed milk after extensive reading and, primarily, to address my poor digestion.  My digestion seems to do very well on a mostly raw milk diet.  I haven't tried a mostly raw meat diet.
I also am somewhat lazy about preparing food, and this seemed -and is- so convenient.  I did not like eating candy or other vending machine food, but sometimes I'd get hungry at work and didn't have good food on hand.  The half-gallon of milk provides a lot of food for the work day; if it weren't for a craving to chew on something, I wouldnt need anything else all day.  I sometimes have "chips", not an ideal food, but I view it as better than candy of any sort.   
I've brought raw eggs to work but was not very comfortable eating them there; even when I did, it did not kill the munchy craving.
Bringing raw meat to work seems a bit much, but I suppose I could try it.  Cheese and bananas sort of address the munchy craving, but not always.  I'm not going to eat a salad in the middle of the day on a milk diet.

Regardless, despite the small cheats off of a 100% raw milk diet, ie chips or a slice of pizza, having raw milk as the great majority of my diet was sufficient to see benefits. 
I discussed them a bit here
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/hot-topics/danger-of-raw-food-products-made-from-raw-milk-(yogurt-cheese-and-butter)/msg72885/#msg72885






 

[raw]

To Brady, one of my close friends who is 85 yrs old dancer and yogini, she is on raw goat milk acidophilus for many years now. Her bones are strong, teeth looks great and extremely strong woman in general. She consumes no sweet at all. Only cucumbers, quash, celeries are her vegetable and some home grown seasonal fruits. Rarely she eats cooked organic meat. She also takes some extra vit C and high dose of Vit D supplements. But overall, her health looks really great. So, eating only raw milk probiotics as main diet is different then drinking just raw milk. Good information Brady. Thanks to you.

I

[Brady]

By acidic, do you mean acidifying foods that produce acidic ash after you digest them or foods that are acidic in your mouth and stomach when you ingest them (in other words, they have a low pH)? These are two entirely different and unrelated factors. As a matter of fact, acidic foods like raw honey tend to be alkaline, not acidifying and indeed raw honey is alkaline (ie, it produces alkaline ash):

"An alkaline-forming food, this type of honey contains ingredients similar to those found in fruits, which become alkaline in the digestive system." http://www.benefits-of-honey.com/raw-honey.html (see also the chart at http://www.alkaline-alkaline.com/ph_food_chart.html,

"unprocessed raw honey has been classfified as an alkaline-forming food. (Processed honey is only little acidifying" http://arthritisreviews.com/apple-cider-vinegar-and-honey-remedy-for-arthritis

Some believe that the sugar in honey offsets the alkaline ash, producing a net acidifying effect, but even if true, I'll bet that is offset by fermentation: "Honey and raw sugars produce alkaline ash, but because of a high concentrate of sugar become acid-formers" http://www.angelfire.com/az/sthurston/acid_alkaline_foods_list.html

I don't know if this is related to your dehydration problem on your pound-of-honey-a-day diet you reported or not, but I found that unfermented raw honey dries my skin, whereas fermented raw honey clears up any dry skin on my face and reduces scalp flakes for me.

I believe (and I'm not the only one) that the theory that Acidic Foods with an 'alkaline ash' like Citrus actually make the body alkaline is a falacy.  Rather than get caught up in a chemistry debate I'll put this to you, drink the Juice from a whole squeezed Lemon of a bottle of Raw Apple Cider Vinegar and see how alkaline you get?  You will be extremely acidic and not feeling too well I'd imagine. 

[Brady]

Not to hijack this thread, but I've been on a mostly-milk diet for more than a year now.  In the first 6 to 9 months, it was even more "mostly".  The last month or two has been less.

My mostly-milk diet consisted of drinking a half-gallon of whole raw milk from Organic Pastures Dairy.  I might have a non-milk meal of some sort at home in the evening, but it was very small.  I started as a 165-170lb adult; the milk only provided 1250 kcal/day, so I was also essentially dieting, but that was not the intent.  A year+ later, I'm at 154.  I was going to drink a gallon a day and try to live on nothing but that, but it was hard to push it all down.  I'd also develop "cravings" to chew something, didn't matter what; adding raw eggs to the diet did not satisfy the need to chew.  Sometimes I'd add extra cream (from OPD), or have a banana+milk+cream shake, but the bananas+milk can be constipating.

These days I still drink a half-gallon a day, on average, but have additional food for breakfast and/or dinner, not strictly raw.

Typically I consume the milk after letting it warm up from the fridge for several hours, and I never put it back in the fridge, but I can handle the milk cold, too.  I am unable to drink pasteurized or otherwise cooked milk.

I could talk about this at length, for those interested.  I experienced many healthy changes.

Hi-jack away my friend! Great to hear your input.

[Waldpfad]

Hi guys,

I just stumbled upon this thread and thought I put in my 2 cents, speaking from my own experience with a raw (almost) all milk diet.
I was born premature and never had mothers milk. I also never had raw milk of any kind. I grew up on Ersatz milk.
Anyways, at the age of 38 I found a raw goats milk farmer that would milk it by hand and give me however much I want to fill my nutritional needs. 
At first I couldn't get enough of this stuff. When I didn't have any or ran short I started to panic, crying, whining and bitching at everyone around me. Raw milk seemed to finally fill that nutritional hole I've been trying to fill with Dark Chocolate, Nut Butters and Raw Honey. Nothing worked but the RAW milk finally did it. ALL cravings for everything else vanished. If I had a carb craving for pie or ice cream, I got myself a cup of raw milk and the cravings and headaches were gone!
I drank 2-3 gallons of whole raw goats milk per week for 1.5 years straight without a break.
I lost 20 lbs because I switched to paleo at the same time, BUT, the flab on my midsection never really got any thinner. Many, many good things happened while drinking raw milk, stronger nails and hair, clean skin, strong teeth...but I can't say 100% that all this is from the raw milk because remember, I switched to Paleo at the same time, so it might've just been the new 'diet'. I also consumed bone marrows, organ meats and bone broths.

1 year and 6 months have passed and I have to say I'm getting slightly sick of milk. I think I had my fill and whatever nutritional hole that was to be filled, is full.
I am currently for the first time of my entire life weaning myself off milk in general...my main reason is 1. I'd like to get my body fat % down and 2. I don't want to worry about the calcium/magnesium ratio anymore.

I have cut down from 2-3 gallons of raw milk to 1/2 a gallon of raw milk over the last 2 weeks and here is what I've observed :
My clouded mental state that I used to get after drinking (this raw) milk is gone. I have no longer the feeling of wanting to take a nap after drinking this milk. It used to make me calm when being slightly angry or having anxiety over something...I don't need to be medicated with milk anymore to deal with stress. The fact that I don't feel tired and exhausted or lazy, sluggish all the time drinking raw milk has given me a boost of energy or motivation to get up and do things. I've noticed I have slightly less mood swings, I am the same character with the same mood every day and it takes a lot to get me angry. No more emotional ups and downs.
I no longer suffer from a constant bloated gut that looked like someone blew up a balloon in me. And the biggest improvement was I no longer have a horrible BAD sewer breath after drinking all this milk. My breath seems fresher and the stinky sock breath is gone. Also, my underarm sweat smells much, much cleaner. My body odour has improved a LOT since going paleo/primal but since cutting down to 1/2 a gal. of raw milk per week it's gone down even more. No more bad smell coming from my arm pits at ALL, even when sweating.

I am kind of convinced that there is something other than lactose that I am allergic to. I am not lactose intolerant, I had a test done...but something else might be going on.
After suffering 30 years from digestive problems, hard stools, constipation, cramps and severe outdoor allergies I didn't notice any of the things raw milk might do because ALL my other health problems vanished switching to primal/paleo.

Raw milk has many nutrients that are highly beneficial to us, but I gotta say there is something else going on. After all this time drinking large amounts of raw milk to fill some hole that wasn't filled after birth I am now kind of convinced that mother nature shuts off the milk cravings after about 1.5 - 2 years automatically.
I feel like a baby that finally had its mothers milk and is turning 1.6 years old and is ready for solid food. I now crave tons of fish (inland fish) and steak tartar warmed up in butter and perhaps a raw egg yolk. These would probably be the first foods a baby would eat being weaned off its mothers milk because those foods are soft.
No craving whatsoever for green things. Only soft berries like raspberries every other day or so.

As soon as the goats dry up for the winter I will cut the last remaining bit of raw milk I consume for good and go completely dairy free over fall/winter to observe the effects.

Good Luck everyone
Waldpfad

[zeno]

Thanks for sharing Waldpfad.

[djr_81]

Or most probably it's because your body became accustomed and stopped to react to poisoning, just like it happens  for every noxious stuff if you consume it regularly for a sufficient long duration. In other words, the immune system, being constantly overwhelmed by an antigen, goes on strike against it because it has invaded every cell all over the body and to destroy all the cells marked with such a recognition antigen would mean destroying the whole body.

With some luck, that may remain ok until you reach a venerable age, but with bad luck some cancerous cells will happen by coincidence to be marked with the same recognition antigen the immune system is "on strike”and thus won’t be destroyed. So the end result of milk consumption may emerge by a cancer 10, 20 or 40 years later, when this forum will no longer be here. 

Good luck!

This is the Primal Sub-Forum Iguana. We should be less critical of dairy here.

My personal experience with raw milk is that it is the lesser of two evils. I don't do well with either but I do "less bad" with raw milk. Of course this is just my own experience.

I hope you continue to find success with your experiment Brady.

I have cut down from 2-3 gallons of raw milk to 1/2 a gallon of raw milk over the last 2 weeks and here is what I've observed :
My clouded mental state that I used to get after drinking (this raw) milk is gone. I have no longer the feeling of wanting to take a nap after drinking this milk. It used to make me calm when being slightly angry or having anxiety over something...I don't need to be medicated with milk anymore to deal with stress. The fact that I don't feel tired and exhausted or lazy, sluggish all the time drinking raw milk has given me a boost of energy or motivation to get up and do things. I've noticed I have slightly less mood swings, I am the same character with the same mood every day and it takes a lot to get me angry. No more emotional ups and downs.
I no longer suffer from a constant bloated gut that looked like someone blew up a balloon in me. And the biggest improvement was I no longer have a horrible BAD sewer breath after drinking all this milk. My breath seems fresher and the stinky sock breath is gone. Also, my underarm sweat smells much, much cleaner. My body oder has improved a LOT since going paleo/primal but since cutting down to 1/2 a gal. of raw milk per week it's gone down even more. No more bad smell coming from my arm pits at ALL, even when sweating.

Have you considered a possible underlying fungal issue Waldpfad? In my past personal experience steady carbs in my diet has presented similar symptoms (without the body odor). I have self-diagnosed with fungal issues and find that I do best with minimal carbs in my diet or these symptoms come back.

[Waldpfad]

Like what kind of fungus? Internally or growing on my skin?
I don't see anything on my skin as far as my head can turn but I used to have little round rashes here and there before going primal/paleo. Those are gone now.
I was tested for Aspergillus and I'm highly allergic to all of them, I think 185 total LOL.
I can't tolerate humidity at all because of those little fungi buggers. But they also grow in soil and at high elevations, they're also present in desert sands.
But those wouldn't be the ones you're talking about, right? They also grow and are present on most leaf plants (grass, dandylion, lettuce, trees, etc), could they end up in raw milk and mess with my pipes?

[Brady]

Hi guys,

I just stumbled upon this thread and thought I put in my 2 cents, speaking from my own experience with a raw (almost) all milk diet.
I was born premature and never had mothers milk. I also never had raw milk of any kind. I grew up on Ersatz milk.
Anyways, at the age of 38 I found a raw goats milk farmer that would milk it by hand and give me however much I want to fill my nutritional needs. 
At first I couldn't get enough of this stuff. When I didn't have any or ran short I started to panic, crying, whining and bitching at everyone around me. Raw milk seemed to finally fill that nutritional hole I've been trying to fill with Dark Chocolate, Nut Butters and Raw Honey. Nothing worked but the RAW milk finally did it. ALL cravings for everything else vanished. If I had a carb craving for pie or ice cream, I got myself a cup of raw milk and the cravings and headaches were gone!
I drank 2-3 gallons of whole raw goats milk per week for 1.5 years straight without a break.
I lost 20 lbs because I switched to paleo at the same time, BUT, the flab on my midsection never really got any thinner. Many, many good things happened while drinking raw milk, stronger nails and hair, clean skin, strong teeth...but I can't say 100% that all this is from the raw milk because remember, I switched to Paleo at the same time, so it might've just been the new 'diet'. I also consumed bone marrows, organ meats and bone broths.

1 year and 6 months have passed and I have to say I'm getting slightly sick of milk. I think I had my fill and whatever nutritional hole that was to be filled, is full.
I am currently for the first time of my entire life weaning myself off milk in general...my main reason is 1. I'd like to get my body fat % down and 2. I don't want to worry about the calcium/magnesium ratio anymore.

I have cut down from 2-3 gallons of raw milk to 1/2 a gallon of raw milk over the last 2 weeks and here is what I've observed :
My clouded mental state that I used to get after drinking (this raw) milk is gone. I have no longer the feeling of wanting to take a nap after drinking this milk. It used to make me calm when being slightly angry or having anxiety over something...I don't need to be medicated with milk anymore to deal with stress. The fact that I don't feel tired and exhausted or lazy, sluggish all the time drinking raw milk has given me a boost of energy or motivation to get up and do things. I've noticed I have slightly less mood swings, I am the same character with the same mood every day and it takes a lot to get me angry. No more emotional ups and downs.
I no longer suffer from a constant bloated gut that looked like someone blew up a balloon in me. And the biggest improvement was I no longer have a horrible BAD sewer breath after drinking all this milk. My breath seems fresher and the stinky sock breath is gone. Also, my underarm sweat smells much, much cleaner. My body odour has improved a LOT since going paleo/primal but since cutting down to 1/2 a gal. of raw milk per week it's gone down even more. No more bad smell coming from my arm pits at ALL, even when sweating.

I am kind of convinced that there is something other than lactose that I am allergic to. I am not lactose intolerant, I had a test done...but something else might be going on.
After suffering 30 years from digestive problems, hard stools, constipation, cramps and severe outdoor allergies I didn't notice any of the things raw milk might do because ALL my other health problems vanished switching to primal/paleo.

Raw milk has many nutrients that are highly beneficial to us, but I gotta say there is something else going on. After all this time drinking large amounts of raw milk to fill some hole that wasn't filled after birth I am now kind of convinced that mother nature shuts off the milk cravings after about 1.5 - 2 years automatically.
I feel like a baby that finally had its mothers milk and is turning 1.6 years old and is ready for solid food. I now crave tons of fish (inland fish) and steak tartar warmed up in butter and perhaps a raw egg yolk. These would probably be the first foods a baby would eat being weaned off its mothers milk because those foods are soft.
No craving whatsoever for green things. Only soft berries like raspberries every other day or so.

As soon as the goats dry up for the winter I will cut the last remaining bit of raw milk I consume for good and go completely dairy free over fall/winter to observe the effects.

Good Luck everyone
Waldpfad

Fascinating Waldpfad, I suspect your theory could be correct in that you just needed to fill the void. I to never got my mothers milk either (suffered bad colic) so I will certainly leave myself open to the same possiblity and if need be come off Raw Milk as you are doing.  Please keep us posted.

[djr_81]

Like what kind of fungus? Internally or growing on my skin?
I don't see anything on my skin as far as my head can turn but I used to have little round rashes here and there before going primal/paleo. Those are gone now.
I was tested for Aspergillus and I'm highly allergic to all of them, I think 185 total LOL.
I can't tolerate humidity at all because of those little fungi buggers. But they also grow in soil and at high elevations, they're also present in desert sands.
But those wouldn't be the ones you're talking about, right? They also grow and are present on most leaf plants (grass, dandylion, lettuce, trees, etc), could they end up in raw milk and mess with my pipes?

I was referring to internal fungal issues but they can present symptoms externally as well.
I personally feel that I am dealing with systemic Candida. I happen to present Tinea Versicolor in direct correlation to carb ingestion as well. When I maintain a low carb diet the Candida symptoms and the Tinea go into remission but if I binge on higher carb foods (such as I did during my vacation the beginning of September) the symptoms come back with a vengeance.
I'm not trying to diagnose what you might have but you may find it useful to read up on fungal infections and determine if it has any bearing on the symptoms you've experienced.

[Iguana]

This is the Primal Sub-Forum Iguana. We should be less critical of dairy here.

Maybe my comment was a bit too harsh.

But isn’t the aim of a forum to discuss different facts, interpretations and opinions ? If every one agrees on everything, then there’s no need for a forum. Cherimoya Kid expressed his opinion on this matter and then I gave some different arguments, to which Brady kindly opposed some other interesting arguments.

I don’t think the dairy question shouldn’t be discussed here since dairy is included in the Primal Diet. Otherwise, it becomes a totalitarian dogmatic section in which all doubts concerning dairy consumption are forbidden to express. There have been several post skeptical of the instincto theory in the Instincto section, and to me they are welcome  as long as they remain civil, free of personal assaults and slander. Otherwise there wouldn’t be much interest in discussing between  people sharing the same point of view on every matter. 

My personal experience with raw milk is that it is the lesser of two evils. I don't do well with either but I do "less bad" with raw milk. Of course this is just my own experience.

If you want to live, I agree it’s better to drink raw milk than pasteurized or cooked milk. Cooked milk is certainly even better than no food at all if it can save you from starvation. I guess that a vegetarian diet including dairy is also more suitable than pure veganism. And the primal diet is certainly much better suited than most other diets.

Nevertheless, according to the info available and meticulous experiments done by some guys I know well, dairy consumption brings certain health risks and can cause health damages. Thus it is  better to avoid it as long as we have access to good quality raw seafood, eggs and meat. It would be immoral of my part not to warn concerned dairy consumers posting or reading here. But then, as they are supposed to be able to judge  by themselves, they are of course free to do what they want.

I hope you continue to find success with your experiment Brady.

Me too, and thank you Brady for this part of your reply:

Raw Dairy has been used by many Indigenous people world wide who did not get cancer or any other lifestyle related disease. What about the Isolated Swiss WAP studied who did a lot of Raw Milk, Cream, Cheese and Butter? Or the Mongolians who do a lot of Raw Kefir, even till this day?

I just wonder if there any statistics proving there was no cancers at all amongst the Indigenous people world wide consuming raw dairy. Did W.A.Price check it? Some decades ago, the exact cause of most peoples’ death was left unknown and cancer traces have been found on few extremely ancient bones, even from dinosaurs, I read. The rate was something like 0,1% or so, but it wasn’t nil.   

[djr_81]

Maybe my comment was a bit too harsh.

But isn’t the aim of a forum to discuss different facts, interpretations and opinions ? If every one agrees on everything, then there’s no need for a forum. Cherimoya Kid expressed his opinion on this matter and then I gave some different arguments, to which Brady kindly opposed some other interesting arguments.

I don’t think the dairy question shouldn’t be discussed here since dairy is included in the Primal Diet. Otherwise, it becomes a totalitarian dogmatic section in which all doubts concerning dairy consumption are forbidden to express. There have been several post skeptical of the instincto theory in the Instincto section, and to me they are welcome  as long as they remain civil, free of personal assaults and slander. Otherwise there wouldn’t be much interest in discussing between  people sharing the same point of view on every matter. 

I agree that discussion is definitely needed in all the areas of the forum. It just feels like this particular sub-forum should discuss the merits of dairy in "shades of gray" as opposed to the black and white/good and bad that seems to be the prevalent thinking elsewhere on the forum.

I have noted the critical discussion of Instincto eating in the Instincto sub-forum. From what I have noted in passing (I will admit that I have not been reading these threads in-depth) the discussions have been staying civil with the focus on questioning the practices and not the posters. As long as things continue this way I really think it's a healthy thing for the sub-forum and all posters involved in the discussions.

[TylerDurden]

Waldpfad, I too experienced chronic fatigue after consuming raw dairy products, I also got excessive, very smelly sweat therefrom. I strongly suggest cutting it out entirely from your diet, as it seems that it is, similiarly, allergic for you.

I also strongly advise you to avoid zero-carb diets as I found them devastating, they destroyed my glandular system.

[Waldpfad]

Thank you all for the replies.
To Dan,
I have looked into Tinea and other fungal infections and I am not showing any of those signs. Nothing externally indicates that I'd have an infection of any kind. Skin is even toned, clear and smooth. But, I have been eating a ton of fruit (farmers market, seasonal) this year and perhaps my sugar intake was a bit too high, no idea, but I'm definitely cutting down on fruit drastically after this month...bought a bucket of red grapes this morning to last me a week. What can I say, I'm german and grew up near the 70km long Wine Street...can't pass up grapes 

To TylerD:
Thanks for the tip on avoiding Zero Carb. I've tried it for 2 days before and couldn't keep it up, so I guessed it's not for me. When the grapes are gone I will focus on taking in carbs from vegetable sources rather than from fruit.
I have read a lot of your posts and your personal blog etc and am aware of your beef with dairy. It certainly was a lot to think about and finally admitting that maybe I've been feeding an opioid addiction and been making excuses to keep on buying it. My brain wants its drugs but my body is starting to shut down...I think it's time to let dairy go.

Thanks again.

[monkeysee]

Waldpfad,
  Regarding sleepiness, a "benefit" I'd read about for goat's milk is it makes you sleepy.  It's a benefit if you're trying to get kids to sleep through the night, for example.
  For a month or two soon after starting the cow's milk I felt sleepy all day, and I certainly slept more at that time, but it passed.  Just relating my experience.
  I may be out-growing the milk, too, but it has been of great help. 

  You mentioned belly fat.  I lost 2+ inches around the waist over the last year.  Initially I lost both lean mass and some around the waist.  Over the last year or so, my weight has stayed the same or gone down a few more pounds, but I seem to have gained back some lean mass while my waist size has further decreased.  This is all relative and hard to define as I didn't take records, but before the "diet" I had fat cheeks and some puff under the chin, whereas soon afterwards my cheeks were slightly hollow, and now they are filling out again despite the same weight.  Those are my face cheeks, to be precise.  I haven't exercised beyond what I normally do playing with my toddlers.

 

[Brady]

I also strongly advise you to avoid zero-carb diets as I found them devastating, they destroyed my glandular system.

I definitely agree with this point, Zero Carb almost killed me.

[TylerDurden]

To be fair, plenty do seem to thrive on RZC, it's just that it makes sense to try raw omnivore diets first.

[Löwenherz]

...
I also strongly advise you to avoid zero-carb diets as I found them devastating, they destroyed my glandular system.

Geoff, how many carbs do you 'need' / eat per day on average nowadays round about?

As you know, a zc beef diet was disastrous for me, but ZC diets with different fat compositions (inlcuding coconut fat) works quite good. Different fats have very different effects. Again and again I see that beef fat is completey useless for me, whereas others like Lex seem to thrive on this kind of fat. I'm a "white meat" man, that makes things more complicated, as long as I restrict my fructose intake (and i HAVE to).

Löwenherz
 

[thumas]

raw diary got hormone's which help balance calcium mag ratio ,imo , (parathyroid hormone and calcitoin ).

[TylerDurden]

Well, my sports endurance drops pretty quickly if I have no carbs, at first. Other than that, I actually feel more alert for the first couple of weeks of not eating carbs. The deterioration only becomes noticeable after 3 weeks or so, by which point I am in trouble re fatigue, anxiety, deteriorating teeth etc. etc.

[PaleoPhil]

I believe (and I'm not the only one) that the theory that Acidic Foods with an 'alkaline ash' like Citrus actually make the body alkaline is a falacy. Rather than get caught up in a chemistry debate I'll put this to you, drink the Juice from a whole squeezed Lemon [or] of a bottle of Raw Apple Cider Vinegar and see how alkaline you get?  You will be extremely acidic and not feeling too well I'd imagine.

Yes, you're not the only because I'm also not big on the theory and have written skeptically of it both in this forum (such as here http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/health/raf-and-ph-levels/msg22330/#msg22330) and at the Paleofood forum (though I also don't eliminate the possibility that there might be something to it), so there's no need for chemistry debate on that, I'm just trying to understand what you're talking about. Surely you can understand that your dramatic change in take on honey is bound to inspire some questions? Since this thread appears to be dedicated to the benefits of raw milk, I'll take my honey questions to your honey thread.

I already regularly drink the juice from a whole squeezed lemon with about a half a cup or so of added water without any ill effects and I feel fine aterwards. I don't think I could have done this in the past without discomfort, though, when my digestion was poorer and my stomach more sensitive. I even sometimes drink small amounts of lemon juice straight. I wouldn't drink the juice of the whole lemon without adding some water, as that would likely be enough low pH to cause some significant burning in my stomach well beyond what even a pound of honey would cause, and don't advocate that anyone do that. I doubt that even drinking it straight would give me other ill effects beyond some temporary stomach burning, though my mother used to develop mild hives when she ate too much acidic foods, and she said this also happened to some of us her children when we were infants. So some people may be particularly sensitive to food acids due to damage done by modern foods.

As for vinegar, I don't eat more than occasional small amounts of raw coconut water vinegar, and I don't know whether even those small amounts of vinegar are beneficial, and I don't care for the taste, so I'm not interested in testing vinegar, but your straight whole-lemon challenge is an interesting one, so I may try it. If I do, I hope you'll wish me luck. It would be an interesting test of my current stomach/digestive robustness.

Like the others, I hope you continue to find success with your experiment and wish you the best of luck. I currently eat some small amounts of Zamorano Spanish raw sheep's milk cheese myself about once every week or two. I don't notice any benefits, but I haven't noticed any ill effects either, though that could be due to the small quantities. I do notice that it doesn't sit in my stomach as heavily as pasteurized cheese, nor cause the mild nausea that pastured ghee did when I tested it twice (homemade and store bought). The cheese is much more expensive than even the honey I eat, and I eat the cheese more as a treat than a health promoter (though it's at least theoretically possible that the calcium and vitamin K2 in it might be a benefit for my dental health), so I don't buy a lot.

[Brady]

Yes, you're not the only because I'm also not big on the theory and have written skeptically of it both in this forum (such as here http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/health/raf-and-ph-levels/msg22330/#msg22330) and at the Paleofood forum (though I also don't eliminate the possibility that there might be something to it), so there's no need for chemistry debate on that, I'm just trying to understand what you're talking about. Surely you can understand that your dramatic change in take on honey is bound to inspire some questions? Since this thread appears to be dedicated to the benefits of raw milk, I'll take my honey questions to your honey thread.

Yeah I understand your point about honey and I'm still trying to work it out myself.  There's no doubt Raw Honey saved my life as evident from the photos however it definately does seem to create acidity.  I think it acts more like a crutch for a broken digestive system as it is so rich in enzymes but I feel that true health should not require a crutch, especially for a vital process like digestion.  Unfortunately I am not quite there yet as I am finding that I can not give it up totally, however my daily intake is a fraction of what it was, its now 100g max as opposed to 350g.

Would be interesting to see how your experiaments with lemon and vinegar go, hope you have the stomach for it mate!