Gabriel Cousins about fruit and fructose

[Löwenherz]

Gabriel Cousins thinks that round about 15 - 25 grams of fructose per day should be the maximum:

20 - Fruitarianism, Fructose, and Sugar

Does anybody know how old Gabriel is?

Löwenherz

[RawZi]

Does anybody know how old Gabriel is?

    I think I heard sixty-five?

[Löwenherz]

    I think I heard sixty-five?

Not so bad.

He recommends a high fat diet with high pufa and mufa content! A pure disaster for me...  I cannot understand how ANYONE can live on such 'toxic' fats.

Löwenherz

[jessica]

i worked on the farm at the tree of life for a while, everyone was pretty much surviving off of supliments and colonics to get all the nuts out of their guts!  i think his juice fasts are healing but not substantial, that much higher caloric intake is needed and his diets do lack good fats and protein! you cannot do that and not have carbs as well or you just end up being worthless and floating around imagining you are a guru.... a lot of his science is legit but his practice is too much and should only be temporary!  a lot of the folks there would sneak into town to eat bagels, lol! i would sneak to get sashimi and coffee...i did gain a LOT of mental clarity while there and did recover a lot of my sanity and am forever grateful to have learned from the good and the bad

[goodsamaritan]

The cheating is very telling...

I saw him in the diabetes cure for 30 days movie.

The Indian chief gave up on the Cousens program.  That guy couldn't hack vegan.  That guy should have done paleo diet high fat low carb instead.

[TheSt0rm]

alright. one of these days Im going to make a youtube journal to track my raw foodism.

I am on a diet the has been founded on Gabriel Cousens advice, though I may have "strayed" because he isn't too clear I have made it the foundation. I practice Gong Fu and only do lightweight training with some running and some mild heavier strength training here and there.

Right now I'm not big but I'm going to do it to track my progress and keep me focused.

Right now my diet consists of high greens (at least 1-2 lbs/heads a day), sprouts (legumes,microgreens,leafy sprouts,etc.), veggies, and soaked/sprouted nuts and seeds. I also have seaweed here and there.

I really do my best to keep my ratio of omega fatty acids 4:1 to 1:1 omega 6 to 3s. The body is supposed to manufacture EPA/DHA for all the body's needs if the ratio is keep this way so no need to supplement.

Usually my meals will be kind of plain, just a bowl of greens, next to a bowl of carb rich veggies/sprouts, and another bowl of soaked/sprouted dried nuts with flaxseeds/chia seeds usually in cracker form (I have a dehydrator). I might throw in a small amount of low glycemic fruits (berries) in the bowl of greens.

I'm trying to see at which order is best due to food combining principles. So I'm experimenting.

Hopefully we'll see how it goes. I think the science Gabriel presents is sound, whether it's applicable all the time is the question. Sometimes science doesn't have all the answers especially when there are unobservable factors.

alright that's it for me today. I'll keep you guys updated.

[TheSt0rm]

oh yes as for some that do high fruit and succeed, it really depends on your lifestyle. Dr. Morse is really good with his advice on using fruits although I don't agree on some points, like being totally 100% fruit. Though I agree that fruits can be healing and can be good for detoxing. So I use a mixture of the principles in the Hippocrates diet, Gabriel Cousens' Rainbow Greens.

Soon though I'll be lookin up what David Jubb and Robert Morse has to see.

The above I believe are the top people in the raw food movement when it comes to the advice.

[goodsamaritan]

I think it depends on the actual fruit.
We just can't say blanket "fruit".
We have to name them one by one.

[TheSt0rm]

well, exactly. Gabriel Cousens doesn't say "absolutely no fruit". He's modified the Phase chart in Rainbow Greens to include a small amount of phase 1.5 fruit in salads (that is the lowest glycemic fruits, making that berries). Even for the juices you can flavor a little with apple juice.

As for the Hippocrates Institute, a source has told me that for most people because of the unhealthy state they're in: they just can't handle more than 15% of the diet from fruit, for really unhealthy people, no more than even as low as 5%. Low glycemic fruits would be best. This is based on years of clinical research.

Gabriel Cousens and Hippocrates, even David Jubb is closest to what may be called a "raw vegan 'primitive' diet". Being that it's low-moderate carb, and higher in fats and proteins. well as for the fats, it might be a bit higher in fat.

The fact is though recent studies have shown that even for the most extreme athletes 30-50g of protein a day is enough and performance improves. Also when you cook your food you know that about 40-50% of the protein's bioavailability diminishes, protein is denatured, enzymes, and organic molecules are broken apart and some of those molecules are necessary to absorb the nutrient content of the food properly and make use of it in the body. So dare I say you might even need less? I don't do that though lol, I stay in the range of 30-50g a day. Easily obtainable with sprouts and nuts/seeds.

[jessica]

without supplementation it is extremely difficult for the human body to adequately metabolize and absorb the amino acids necessary to create proper proteins and impossible for the body to obtain certain vitamins, nutrients and fats that are necessary for proper human bodily function, as well as receive adequate caloric intake without having to rely on foods that take a lot of preparation and modification to make somewhat digestible, such as seeds.  if gabe cousins diets were whole his followers would not have to sustain themselves by buying and ingesting  supplemental to make up for an inadequate diet

instead of spending time sprouting and dehydrating, just eat raw meat, its has more amino acids, protein, nutrients, good fats and is easily digestible...instead of flying in process tropical oils just eat local butter, make ghee...etc, instead of buying mega greens just eat wild/foraged local fresh nutrient dense greens......simple and local are the best choice

[TheSt0rm]

unfortunately this is where I stray from "paleo". I only really follow it where it comes to the macronutrient ratio. But I am all for the use of technology like agriculture, sprouting, etc. I mean really, I think evolution occured for a reason so I'm ok with agriculture. Besides it brings humans together to live in society. When you soak/sprout seeds they become superior foods, there's no doubt about that. Legumes might still contain some of their indigestibility if eaten in excess. That's why only mung, adzuki and lentils are best to sprout and eat raw. I mean really we don't need that much.  same with nuts/seeds. If you keep each to handful portions it's not bad. Greens (focus on the baby greens and the non-goitrogenic) /veggies/microgreens/leafy sprouts on the other hand are really good to have as much as you want. Veggies less so.

Making preparations I try not to use too many preparations, especially like using a blender. Better to grind in some way with less frictional heat. Same with juicing. I don't use too many oils. I think it's only good for special cases like medicinally or to supplement. Maybe even the once in a while gourmet dish. Same with butters or ground food.

Fermented foods are good.

As for supplements, I dont use supplements. All I use is b12 and vitamin D when I'm deficient. As for the others who used lots of supplements: that's them. I'd say it's probably because they might make use of the supplements due to their ailments."Colonics for all the high fats intake".. well the food at the Tree of Life Insitute is gourmet. I don't have problems with digestion though I have run into them when I either eat too much fats first before eating the veggies, too many spices, not enough water and don't follow proper food combining principles.
Coffee had also made it worse for me, but when I stop that my digestion goes back to normal.

IMO yea maybe there's too much fat, and/or too little carbs at the Tree of Life institute. But if one sticks to eating simple without as much preparation aside from agricultural techniques like sprouting you won't be getting in too much of the fats or carbs. Just eat the food as is. Drying might be ok. Sun drying is best.

On nov. 19 Gabriel Cousens will broadcast live another series and focus on how a person can succeed on a diet of 30-50% fat.

[RawZi]

.. (focus on the baby greens and the non-goitrogenic) /veggies/microgreens/leafy sprouts on the other hand are really good to have as much as you want. ..

    My thyroid problems disappeared within a year of RAFD.  You still get goiters?  The medical doctors told me my thyroid was in such a state it never had hope of any healing, now they just say it's fine.

... Better to grind in some way ... Same with juicing. I don't use too many oils. I think it's only good for special cases like medicinally or to supplement. ... Same with butters or ground food. ..

    Why not eat your meat whole?  Are your teeth ok?  How many oils do you use?  How are you using medicinal oils?  Dairy butter?  Ground-nuts (peanuts and the like)? Ground meat? 

... All I use is b12 and vitamin D when I'm deficient. As for the others who used lots of supplements: that's them. ..."Colonics for all the high fats intake".. well the food at the Tree of Life Insitute is gourmet. .. before eating the veggies, too many spices, not enough water and don't follow proper food combining principles.
Coffee had also made it worse for me, but when I stop that my digestion goes back to normal.

    How often do you stop coffee?  How much of it do you drink?  How many supplements does Gabriel have?  Does he have a soy sauce there?  What foods do they combine at a meal?  With Ann Wigmore the kitchen was very careful to only combine things that digested well together etc and prepare the food in forms that broke down very well.  Does your B12 have preservatives?  I could never digest gel-caps, I've wound up in emergency with that.

IMO yea maybe there's too much fat, and/or too little carbs at the Tree of Life institute. .. aside from agricultural techniques like sprouting you won't be getting in too much of the fats or carbs. Just eat the food as is. Drying might be ok. Sun drying is best.

    So you're totally against eating fruit or flesh?

On nov. 19 Gabriel Cousens will broadcast live another series ...

    Gabriel Cousens promotes a type of veganism that didn't help my health.  Maybe someone else on the forum may tune in.  No thanks from me.

[cherimoya_kid]

    I think I heard sixty-five?

He was born in 1943, so probably 68.  He looks OK, but not amazing, for that age. 

[Löwenherz]

i worked on the farm at the tree of life for a while, everyone was pretty much surviving off of supliments and colonics to get all the nuts out of their guts!

LOL!

I can understand this very well, nuts are pure horror for my digestive system...

So, it seems that Cousins just belongs to the vegan illusion crew, trying all sorts of absurd dietary ideas just to avoid all animal food completely.

Somehow they are all driven by fear. To a certain degree it's comprehensable for me as I got extremely sick from grain fed meat in the past.

Löwenherz

[Löwenherz]

I really do my best to keep my ratio of omega fatty acids 4:1 to 1:1 omega 6 to 3s. The body is supposed to manufacture EPA/DHA for all the body's needs if the ratio is keep this way so no need to supplement.

But don't nuts upset this omega ration completely?

Usually my meals will be kind of plain, just a bowl of greens, next to a bowl of carb rich veggies/sprouts, and another bowl of soaked/sprouted dried nuts with flaxseeds/chia seeds usually in cracker form (I have a dehydrator). I might throw in a small amount of low glycemic fruits (berries) in the bowl of greens.

And your digestion is working fine with such meals??

Löwenherz

[Löwenherz]

Soon though I'll be lookin up what David Jubb and Robert Morse has to see.

Robert Morse is a nice guy! But obviously he is eating everything else than his recommended diet as he is extremely (!) overweight. Do you know what his own diet looks like? I guess china restaurant food. 

Somewhen I will visit him in Florida...

Löwenherz

[TheSt0rm]

But don't nuts upset this omega ration completely?

And your digestion is working fine with such meals??

Löwenherz

Yea. It just takes some planning with the meals, ie food combining.

As for the nuts and upsetting the omega 3-6 balance: it doesn't upset it if you combine it with flaxseeds/chia seeds in the right proportion.

Look if you go on nutritiondata.com and make a recipe, of lets say, how many nuts you can have in a day... and I eat a calorie restricted diet also. make a "recipe" where you will have lets say a cup of whatever nut you want. I'll say pumpkin seeds, sprouted of course but nutritiondata.com doesn't have the info on that so I use regualar 1 cup of pumpkin seeds to just 1/4 cup of flax (4 tablespoons) and the ratio of omega 3 to 6 is roughly 1:3-1:4. So it's still in good range. Of course you dont even have to have a cup of pumpkin seeds.

It's not a good recipe I know, it's not even meant to be a recipe. it's just a function I use on nutritiondata.com to see how much nuts I can have in a day combining it all together, with chia/flaxseeds so I can maintain the ratio of 1:1 to 1:4 omega 6 to 3s.

As far as I have read.. it seems the whole thign about nuts/seeds being bad is that they can contain a lot of omega 6s, and when unsprouted, lots of antinutrients/lectins/hemagluttinins/enzyme inhibitors, etc. I think even sprouting might alter the ratio of any other "poorly rationed" nutrients contained within.

So, if I can just portion my meals accordingly are nuts/seeds really that bad?

[cherimoya_kid]

The St0rm, you're a meat-eater like I'm Kim Kardashian.

Why don't you just give up before I ban you?  Why not?  Why do I always have to BAN you people?  Tell me why.  Why can't you have a change of heart, or just realize that you are so completely beaten?  I'm the MODERATOR, for God's sakes.  Even if you could out-argue me, I can still just BAN you.  Even if you had useful points, it wouldn't matter, because I can just BAN you.   I mean really....you know you're going to lose.

Haven't you watched me, personally ban like 40 vegan trolls?  If not, let me tell you, I have, and I will again.  I'm famous here for banning first and asking questions later.  Others  can attest to this fact.  Just go away.

[TheSt0rm]

don't confuse me with the others like durianrider and friends. I'm not trolling this forum nor looking for an argument.

Besides the only reason I came here was because it says vegan discussion is allowed here under the "Hot Topics" subject. And the discussion on Gabriel Cousens. Why even allow him to be brought up here? He's vegan. Him, and people like Brian Clement are about the only raw fooders who can be close to a "primitive like" diet according to macronutrient ratio. And that's why I came. Everywhere I go, it's all fruitarian, fruitarian, they dominate all the raw food forums and put down people like me who want to say 100% fruit is not the most balanced raw vegan diet.

You keep insisting that I want to make some kind of argument, but you're the only one I see here being hostile.

[cherimoya_kid]

don't confuse me with the others like durianrider and friends. I'm not trolling this forum nor looking for an argument.

Besides the only reason I came here was because it says vegan discussion is allowed here under the "Hot Topics" subject. And the discussion on Gabriel Cousens. Why even allow him to be brought up here? He's vegan. Him, and people like Brian Clement are about the only raw fooders who can be close to a "primitive like" diet according to macronutrient ratio. And that's why I came. Everywhere I go, it's all fruitarian, fruitarian, they dominate all the raw food forums and put down people like me who want to say 100% fruit is not the most balanced raw vegan diet.

You keep insisting that I want to make some kind of argument, but you're the only one I see here being hostile.

I find Cousens interesting because he's an actual MD who has run a raw healing center for many years, looks good for his age, and has come to the same conclusion that many here have.  Specifically, he feels that carbs from fruit can cause serious, serious problems, and that too much carbs, in general, can really be problematic.   Cousens has been doing the raw thing for many years.  He's no trollish, ignorant newbie, like you, or DurianRider. 

He's quite wrong that veganism is safe, long-term, and his supplement-heavy diet proves that.  However, he's no run-and-gun, fly-by-night troll.  He's quite sincere, and has some excellent points, and lots of useful health background knowledge.  That makes him worth discussing, unlike you or DurianRider.

So in other words, if you want to be taken seriously, and not treated as a troll, here are some suggestions.   Become an MD, run a healing center for 10 or 15 years, and then check us back then.  Til then, shut up.   

I mean really, dude, you're so full of fear, and so NOT full of knowledge. I and the other mods here, on the other hand, have lots more knowledge, and correspondingly less fear.   You would do well to learn from us, if you are to ever become a highly-skilled dietary know-it-all that actually knows something.

Look, you've already lied to us and said you eat raw meat, when, in fact, you just admitted that you don't.  That, in and of itself, is ban-worthy.  I think I'm just going to go ahead and ban you, but I'll give you the chance to back down, stop posting like a troll, and just learn.  Your opinions don't mean shit.  Learn that, and I'll let you stay.  Your choice.

[TheSt0rm]

Simple because you are trying to make me look weaker than you with your harsh words while I'm being calm doesn't mean I'm "fearful". And I've never said I ate meat.

I simply took Paleo for being a simple branch term that could mean any kind of diet that reflects a primitive diet not, a specific diet.

For the 'veganism is harmful' comment, I obviously disagree. If you're talking about simple b12 deficiency that's no reason to discount veganism as b12 comes from fermentation and we've simply lost our ability to ferment it in our systems... besides that our society does not live quite as naturally like we did back in the ancient days. What if by living naturally we can get this function back?

Vitamin k2? I don't worry about that, greens have a Ton of vitamin k, and as long as your gut flora is healthy I wouldn't worry about not having enough k2. Again another product of fermentation, and enzymatic reaction.

If veganism is so wrong why even listen to a vegan such as Gabriel Cousens then?

as for the aging factor like glycation products, well as you said also, high carb diets lead to these kinds of things. Gabriel Cousens finds a way to minimize that by moderating carbs, and fats when necessary.

I'm done with this forum. if this is what is represented as a paleo diet: a person who cannot even deal with others who don't share the same opinion as you, I'd rather not be a part of this.

You didn't even try to point out any faults, and try to provide info as to why you think "I'm wrong", instead you chose to insult me. I would have actually been interested.

[TheSt0rm]

Also, you mentioned the fear.. and? Oh I may have fear. Or is it simply that I just choose to be vegan, not out of fear but by simple choice? Why would buddhists or any other spiritual group not eat meat, would you say out of fear? Even if it is fear,so what then, why fear fear?

Does a paleo diet banish all fear?

[billy4184]

Here's my general point of view:

Stop listening to celebrity gurus and try it on yourself. If it doesn't work well ditch it.

Everyone's trying to sell you cow sh** as a supplement these days, or a book that says "this isn't allowed" and "that isn't allowed" and have 1.5625 servings of this and none of the other thing.
Our ancestors would be laughing their lean asses off if they knew what we were up to. I'm not going to be part of that crowd. I respect everyone on this forum for their individual points of view, and the fact that they are trying to be healthy, but my diet is exactly what I decide to stick down my throat, and I hope its the same way for you.
Sorry to intrude on the conversation, but I just went raw yesterday and I've got the jitters 
Peace

[Ferocious]

Also, you mentioned the fear.. and? Oh I may have fear. Or is it simply that I just choose to be vegan, not out of fear but by simple choice? Why would buddhists or any other spiritual group not eat meat, would you say out of fear? Even if it is fear,so what then, why fear fear?

Does a paleo diet banish all fear?

Since you are vegan, what business have you here? I am truly curious.

[RawZi]

    I understand you being tired of the vegan forums and wanting a forum that will support your low fruit view.

Why would buddhists or any other spiritual group not eat meat, would you say out of fear?

    Most of us have already been through this, some for six months, some for multiple decades.  We choose raw meat now, and this forum is our place.  Not all spiritual groups do not eat meat by the way.

Does a paleo diet banish all fear?

    Actually it does banish fear.  It doesn't hose the kidneys out.  It give the nutrients that kidneys are made of.  Kidneys healed?  Fear gone!  That's what it did for me.  I was well on my way to needing dialysis.  In many ancient traditional healing systems fear is considered a kidney thing.  Whole raw food natural veganism didn't detox mercury or anything else. Supervised water fasting weakened them further. Raw animal fat and raw animal meat and other raw animal foods did the trick and and allowed them to be strong too, able to function and not just siphon out all my needed hydration at every chance.  It delivered as promised, something I had asked before from vegan practitioners and they said could not be done.  What sold me on trying raw meat in addition to the fact it is right, is that I read about pets eating highmeats and buried bones to cure 'incurable' kidney failure.  A calm fearless person breathes easily, deeply, slowly and without thinking about it.  Their heart beat is calm, yet strong.  Mine is now, heart and breathing.  I was not pleased with the quick shallowness of my breath before and occasional too quick heart beat.  Now I am way calmer than any vegan, strong calm, not like the just finished eight weeks water fast calm.

    Good luck Stormy.  Hope to see your writing calm down and you healthy and accepting real food.