Raw Food and Bone Broth

[dogman333]

Well, I"m thinking about all this and you all make alot of sense. Thanks.
So, it seems, all the health benefits of gelatin/bone broth and getting the benefits of eating the whole animal with their higher gelatin content in feet, heads, and such only is necessary for cooked food eaters.

It is clear that -- at least for cooked eaters -- gnawing on bones (to get that connective tissue) and feet and ears and skin in the diet provides alot of necessary health benefits. I like Ray Peat's article on gelatin for that. http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml

But I was wondering while I'm eating all raw if I needed the skin, feet and other high gelatin parts. It is difficult to eat "the whole animal" when it's raw. You all seem to be fine on just muscle and organ meats as long as it's raw.

[moringa82]

how do you scoop out the frozen marrow from the frozen  bones? do you need to heat it until melts?

[TylerDurden]

how do you scoop out the frozen marrow from the frozen  bones? do you need to heat it until melts?

Leave at room-temperature for many hours to warm it.

[political atheist]

IMO bone broth is really healthy even for us raw animal food eaters... its just too healing to not eat it... this is will be my only cooked/heated food i will eat: bone broth.

i eat only: raw mince beef, raw organs, raw eggs, raw milk kefir, raw coconut cream, raw butter, raw cream, raw cheese types and maybe some back fat here and there..and I will add about 1 to 2 cups of bone broth EVERY DAY, i will drink/eat it with my raw animal meals.

Its just too healing. People are reporting amazing results in healing the gut with broth fasts. Im on raw animal food diet for 2 months and I still have leaky gut. Cooked food eaters when add broth, they heal their gut very fast.

But hey, this is just MY choice to add the broth.

[van]

keep us informed as to how it seems to work long term.    Also you'll see that this overall diet that you've adopted will heal most things nicely period.   Don't feel for a moment that you're not doing what is right for you by including bone broth.

[Inger]

I am with Van on this 

[Projectile Vomit]

You don't need to cook the bone (or other animal parts) to make broth. I recall a study that found that soaking bone in slightly acidic water at room temperature extracts more Calcium than when the broth is heated. Also, you can use fermentation to make a broth. Start with a large container of water, add in shredded vegetables like beets or cabbage as if you were going to make a vegetable-based kvass. Add a little salt to favor lactic acid bacteria, then add in pieces of bone. As the lactic acid bacteria eat the carbs in the vegetables they'll release lactic acid, and the acid will leach calcium, magnesium and probably other things from the bone. Fermentation tends to accentuate the bioavailability of minerals, so this beverage, once fermented for a week or so, will become biologically and minerally rich.

[Inger]

This was amazing stuff what you posted there Eric! Have you tried to do this yourself? How did that taste, is it sour, like sauerkraut?
I want to try this.....

[van]

I would like to see the study.  Hopefully it was a lab report and not hearsay.  Bones tend to go 'off' pretty quickly with some smelly types bacteria,, got to wonder how the fermentation would go..

[Projectile Vomit]

The bone broth study is McCance et al (1934) Bone and vegetable broth. Archives of Disease in Childhood, Vol. 9, Pages 251-258. If you have trouble sourcing it, email me and I'll send you the PDF.

Bones can go 'off' pretty quickly, but for this to happen oxygen needs to be present. In fermented vegetable recipes there is very little or no oxygen; fermentation is primarily an anoxic process. The lack of oxygen preserves the bones, as does the acidity generated during fermentation as the bacteria eat the carbs in the vegetables and give off lactic acid as a waste product. This is why it's not uncommon to find perfectly preserved human and animal remains in peat bogs, because the acidity in the bogs prevents the remains' decay.

I have made the broth I mentioned. I did a lot of experimenting over this past winter, and reached a point where I was happy enough with it that I expect I'll never make another heated broth again. I usually use red cabbage or beets as the vegetable to start the fermentation as I really like the taste of broths based on these vegetables, although I often also put in some shredded ginger and turmeric as these are both anti-inflammatory and do add a little kick to it. I haven't drank much broth over the summer though, so I haven't made any in a few months. I might see if I can find some bones just to make some again, and might even do a blog post featuring the recipe.

[aLptHW4k4y]

A more detailed post for a recipe would be very nice

[van]

The bone broth study is McCance et al (1934) Bone and vegetable broth. Archives of Disease in Childhood, Vol. 9, Pages 251-258. If you have trouble sourcing it, email me and I'll send you the PDF.

Bones can go 'off' pretty quickly, but for this to happen oxygen needs to be present. In fermented vegetable recipes there is very little or no oxygen; fermentation is primarily an anoxic process. The lack of oxygen preserves the bones, as does the acidity generated during fermentation as the bacteria eat the carbs in the vegetables and give off lactic acid as a waste product. This is why it's not uncommon to find perfectly preserved human and animal remains in peat bogs, because the acidity in the bogs prevents the remains' decay.

I have made the broth I mentioned. I did a lot of experimenting over this past winter, and reached a point where I was happy enough with it that I expect I'll never make another heated broth again. I usually use red cabbage or beets as the vegetable to start the fermentation as I really like the taste of broths based on these vegetables, although I often also put in some shredded ginger and turmeric as these are both anti-inflammatory and do add a little kick to it. I haven't drank much broth over the summer though, so I haven't made any in a few months. I might see if I can find some bones just to make some again, and might even do a blog post featuring the recipe.

hi, yeah I doubt I'd find it, my email is van@mcn.org   thanks Eric

[Joy2012]

The bone broth study is McCance et al (1934) Bone and vegetable broth. Archives of Disease in Childhood, Vol. 9, Pages 251-258. If you have trouble sourcing it, email me and I'll send you the PDF.

Bones can go 'off' pretty quickly, but for this to happen oxygen needs to be present. In fermented vegetable recipes there is very little or no oxygen; fermentation is primarily an anoxic process. The lack of oxygen preserves the bones, as does the acidity generated during fermentation as the bacteria eat the carbs in the vegetables and give off lactic acid as a waste product. This is why it's not uncommon to find perfectly preserved human and animal remains in peat bogs, because the acidity in the bogs prevents the remains' decay.

I have made the broth I mentioned. I did a lot of experimenting over this past winter, and reached a point where I was happy enough with it that I expect I'll never make another heated broth again. I usually use red cabbage or beets as the vegetable to start the fermentation as I really like the taste of broths based on these vegetables, although I often also put in some shredded ginger and turmeric as these are both anti-inflammatory and do add a little kick to it. I haven't drank much broth over the summer though, so I haven't made any in a few months. I might see if I can find some bones just to make some again, and might even do a blog post featuring the recipe.

Are (whole) chicken feet acceptable in this raw bone broth?

[political atheist]

You don't need to cook the bone (or other animal parts) to make broth. I recall a study that found that soaking bone in slightly acidic water at room temperature extracts more Calcium than when the broth is heated. Also, you can use fermentation to make a broth. Start with a large container of water, add in shredded vegetables like beets or cabbage as if you were going to make a vegetable-based kvass. Add a little salt to favor lactic acid bacteria, then add in pieces of bone. As the lactic acid bacteria eat the carbs in the vegetables they'll release lactic acid, and the acid will leach calcium, magnesium and probably other things from the bone. Fermentation tends to accentuate the bioavailability of minerals, so this beverage, once fermented for a week or so, will become biologically and minerally rich.

does acid extract the gelatin too?

[Projectile Vomit]

Are (whole) chicken feet acceptable in this raw bone broth?

I've never put whole chicken feet in the bone broth I make, but I don't see why not.

does acid extract the gelatin too?

Good question. I don't know for sure, but acid does digest gelatin in our stomachs so it seems reasonable to me that it would predigest gelatin in a broth, if present. I think that's why Sally Fallon suggests putting a little vinegar in bone broth recipes.