recovering ex-fruitarian

[balancing-act]

Hi, you'all. I posted in some other places... I'm old to raw but brand new to raw meat. I've looked around this site a bunch over the past few days, and I'm ecstatic to have found this place. There's so much information here. I'm not sure I know where to begin. I guess I'll just begin.
I know it's cliche and been done a million times, but if anyone has any "newbie" advice- I'm all ears. I've got some grass-fed beef thawed out in the fridge, and I've been craving butter recently. I was thinking of just liberally spreading butter all over my meat. Do others do that? Maybe coconut milk at some point, too, if I'm feeling.
And, though I deeply regret my embarrassing phase of eating only fruit last year, I still do absolutely love tropical fruit. Right now I have a tray full of persimmons, a giant jackfruit ripening, and several pounds of fresh dates in the kitchen. Oh, and a mamey sapote or two. If anyone ever wants to talk fruit- I'm your guy.
I'm just trying to find the right balance. Recently I've been going in phases of eating tons and tons of meat, then getting really sick of it and eating mostly fruit for a while (where is where I'm at right now). I'm sure I'll find a balance between the two, as I progress.
Thanks, everyone, for this very professional forum. The vegan ones are ghettos. I just wish I had found this place a year ago.

[cherimoya_kid]

 What's your favorite tropical fruit ? For me it's either durian or mamey sapote, but cherimoya isn't far behind, hence my username.

[balancing-act]

It's a many-way tie, I think. Mamey sapote may take it, but right now I'm loving persimmons. Over the summer I love high-water-content fruit, and papaya's my favorite. Cherimoyas are amazing, too, but I find them hard to come by.
But as the season's turning (I'm in New England) I'm finding myself liking the dense, lower-water fruits more, such as fresh dates, and papayas seem to make me feel bloated.
 
I'm curious how it'll go in the winter. Last year I tried to push 100% fruitarianism into November- that's extremely embarrassing- and when I stopped I needed a total break from fruit for a couple months. This year I'm guessing that if I'm more balanced about it I'll be able to eat denser in-season fruits in moderation throughout the winter. I order stuff online. Chocolate sapote is a good winter fruit. That's a really weird one. It's actually related to persimmons and not to mamey at all. "Sapote" is really a general name meaning "soft fruit," and all of the "sapotes" aren't related to each other; I only learned that recently.

The only concession I get from fruitarianism ruining my health for a while was that at least I know a lot about fruit, and appreciate it. I buy it in abundance and bring it to meetings and such, and people go crazy for it, cause most folks don't eat much fruit, certainly not tropical fruit, which I think is the best stuff.

[Iguana]

 

I was thinking of just liberally spreading butter all over my meat. Do others do that?

No I don’t! I don’t eat any dairy and I don’t eat mixtures.

I'm just trying to find the right balance. Recently I've been going in phases of eating tons and tons of meat, then getting really sick of it and eating mostly fruit for a while (where is where I'm at right now). I'm sure I'll find a balance between the two, as I progress.

There are other foods than fruits and meat: vegetables, nuts, eggs, fish, shellfish, crabs… It will certainly be difficult to find a proper balance if you limit yourself to meat and fruits only. 

Welcome, BTW!

[balancing-act]

Thanks for the welcome.

Well, I was counting fish as "meat." Though I'm not very versed in fish, even cooked, so it's a new world to me. I love lobster and scallops, and look forward to eating the raw. Any other fish in particular anyone cares to recommend raw? I saw some things in other threads... mackerel? I've had raw salmon; it's all right. I'll definitely try oysters next season, as my parents live on Cape Cod.

I do eat a few nuts, macadamias especially. I don't seem to love raw vegetables- maybe a very small amount. There are a couple recipes from my days as a raw vegan that involve blending vegetables and nuts that I actually enjoy.

But as far as butter... some folks here do eat it, right? I haven't eaten cheese in months, and I've been feeling a lot better for that, but a couple nights ago I slopped up a bunch of butter with my meat, and my stomach gurgled in happiness- I really needed the animal fat. What are my other options for extra animal fat? I feel like it's animal fat in particular that I need, not plant- totally sick of avocados. Why not mix butter with meat, causes digestion problems?

Pardon my ignorance. I've been looking around the site quite a bit, but since I know so little about meat sometimes I can't follow all the conversations. I actually went to the farmer's market the other day planning to buy some fresh lard, but, alas, they were all out. I need more fat. In another thread I heard cherimoya_kid mention mention "back fat." I don't even know what this is, never mind where I'd get it.

Thanks.

[eveheart]

I get grass-fed beef back fat from a butcher who sells it to people who make sausages at home. Suet comes from the innards of the animal - it surrounds the kidney, etc. Back fat is what you would find at the edges of a steak, for example. Grass-fed beef back fat has a smooth, buttery taste when raw. When I get it, it has a buttery yellow appearance to it, unlike the white fat from grain-fed beef. Quite a bit of it gets trimmed from beef that is sold as retail cuts because people want to eat lean, so I just ask to have the back fat when the butcher is breaking down a carcass.

Being new here, you might not have your grass-fed sources lined up yet, but I think back fat is worth searching for.

[cherimoya_kid]

The only concession I get from fruitarianism ruining my health for a while was that at least I know a lot about fruit, and appreciate it.

That's my experience exactly, with the extra added "fun" of having to loudly proclaim the dangers of the low-fat fruitarian diet to whomever comes and trolls about it here.  The whole damn experience is a yoke around my neck, at least so far.

[balancing-act]

Yeah, I noticed that, C_K- I feel for you. I actually found this place after you posted on a vegan chat board complaining about a certain you-know-you, asking that he stop sending his minions over here harassing. The overt idiocy of that cabal of people compared to the obvious sanity, intelligence, and cooperative nature of folks here should be enough to tell any objective observer which diet is more conducive to health and happiness. Without any animal products at all in the diet you really "lose it" a little, and especially when you get super extreme about low-fat for a long period of time.

Thank you, eveheart. I live in an area with a ton of farms and grass-fed meat, so you'd think this would be easy, but I'm not sure where to start in finding a butcher (can I just look up "butchers"?)... but I'll ask around. I did find a source of lard from a farm, so maybe that's a start. I'm drooling thinking of the back fat, though.

Peace, you guys. I appreciate the support.

[cherimoya_kid]

Without any animal products at all in the diet you really "lose it" a little, and especially when you get super extreme about low-fat for a long period of time.

The thing is, most people who find raw low-fat fruitarianism are very intelligent, often well-read young people, with lots of potential.  Watching their beautiful minds be slowly eroded by that diet is so sad to me. It's such a tragic waste.  It's criminal.

[balancing-act]

As a classic victim of this, I couldn't agree more. But I feel like there's some zeitgeist away from veganism right now. I have one friend who's been vegetarian and 99$ vegan his whole life, and just a few months ago while getting acupuncture he woke up to the reality that he was really sick from B12 deficiency. Now he says he wants to try fish, though he hasn't done it yet. He's definitely one of those very smart and talented people that the world could really use, but he's spacy and not totally together because of the veganism.
At least I feel like amongst older people there's a turn away from veganism, due just to experience and reality catching up with people. Amongst younger kids veganism- raw or otherwise- is still really trendy.

[Dorothy]

Seems to me that this strange trend away from fat is the real danger. I think it's because relatively recently (at least to me) fats have been demonized when they used to be considered a health food - and then all these new frankenstein vegetable oils - like canola - that are glorified - when in truth they are creations. Doing vegan/vegetarian eating as much good fat as possible and very little fruit is very different than what y'all are describing. This new trend towards fruitarianism and low to no fat - very strange.

There is also this new internet guru phenomena that never existed before. Before, you read a book and analyzed it for yourself, tried it, and saw how much of what and if any of it worked. Now you have people saying things like "it's only a detox - stick it out" and "you're not eating enough calories - stick it out" and "you need to blend your greens with your fruit -stick it out". The force of personalities seem to be taking over and over-riding people's own good sense.

But also, now, you get the other side where there are places like this where all sorts of new possible raw food sources open up. Before, you had the choice of eating big cattle tortured animals fed garbage that was cooked or... nothing.

Gurus vs. Open Information. I hope the open information wins.

[RawZi]

I have one friend who's been vegetarian and 99$ vegan his whole life, and just a few months ago while getting acupuncture he woke up to the reality that he was really sick from B12 deficiency. Now he says he wants to try fish, though he hasn't done it yet.

    I would say try raw pasture raised un-chilled eggs first, then pasture raised raw not been frozen liver - before trying fish.  Fish worked for me before liver (but after eggs and cultured cream and unheated honey), but as a child I ate meat and everything.  Someone raised whole life 99% vegan 100% veg, I don't think fish of for as a first food, given my observations and experience.  I don't mean to deter your friend, I just hope to support safety.

    Think of babies.  They can eat chopped beef or turkey first food, egg yolks, liver, never heard of fish as the first food.  They have delicate systems, like others who have no foundation yet in same foods.

[cherimoya_kid]

As a classic victim of this, I couldn't agree more. But I feel like there's some zeitgeist away from veganism right now.  Amongst younger kids veganism- raw or otherwise- is still really trendy.

Yeah, veganism is trendy amongst the young--but paleo (and maybe even raw paleo, in a few years) is also becoming a hot trend, specifically for weight loss and for athletes.  I have a feeling a mostly-unprocessed, 50+% raw paleo diet is going to become the big thing in about 8-10 years. Probably we'll have cheap vat-grown meat by then, and probably just nutrition pellets soon after that, so  I doubt raw paleo will ever have a chance to become dominant.

[balancing-act]

Very astute analysis, Dorothy, re gurus. We live in a society of idolatry; people are inclined to hero-worship, rather than trusting our own instinct and experience.

Rawzi, thanks for the suggestions. This person is in his forties. I think he ate some meat in his teens, but not since. Whatever animal products I/he can get through his mental blocks is what I'd go with, though. I don't think liver's going to slide by the "gross" reaction he has, or any red meat. Eggs might cut it. He's mostly raw, so I'll definitely push the raw angle.

Cherimoya_kid, you're right that paleo is on the rise... but the powers-that-be will do their best to ensure that most people don't get to eat real food. The trend is an ever-widening food apartheid in which some of us have access to farms and real food but most people are stuck with convenience store non-food- "nutrition pellets," or non-nutrition-pellets, as it were.

Have you seen the new Snickers candy bat ad campaign? It's all about "fighting hunger." Hunger and poverty are real problems in America, they say. Grab a Snickers. Raw Orwellianism. People living off of caffeine and sugar and high-fructose corn syrup... it's not exactly "life."

Anyway, wanted to say... RAW MEAT IS AMAZING. Looking back, I have no clue why I didn't try this long ago. It's the simplest thing. The clarity of consciousness is divine. I'm still habitually probably eating too much fruit, as I'm used to grazing all day... never really eaten real meals my whole life... but slowly we learn new habits.

[balancing-act]

I'm thinking my strategy maybe should be fruit only in the morning. Does that make sense? I love fruit... right now I'm hooked on fresh bahri dates. It's the season. They melt in your mouth like caramel. And you want more and more... until you have a stomachache and you've spoiled your dinner.

[djr_81]

I'm thinking my strategy maybe should be fruit only in the morning. Does that make sense? I love fruit... right now I'm hooked on fresh bahri dates. It's the season. They melt in your mouth like caramel. And you want more and more... until you have a stomachache and you've spoiled your dinner.

If I ate fruit that would be how I would do it.

[balancing-act]

In the morning. Yeah. Thanks.