DogToffee takes it slow (healing journal)

[sabertooth]

The mainstream has embraced vitamin d supplementation, and rightly so because deficiency is so common. The harmful effects of supplementation may be up for debate, but I still don't believe that the benefits of supplemental vitamin d are anywhere near what one can receive from exposure to uv rays, or some good old cod liver oil. I give cod liver to my children especially in the winter time to protect them against deficiency.

 For years we were told about the health benefits of certain vitamins like , A,B,C,D and E, but now more and more evidence is coming out how these synthetic vitamins are not providing the results that were promised.
http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippianhotmail/files/Dangers_of_Synthetic_Unnatural_Vitamins.pdf


Tanning beds are a viable option for those of northern latitudes, if you have extra sensitive skin you can use lower intensity beds for just a few minutes at a time.

[HIT_it_RAW]

http://www.naturalmedicinejournal.com/article_content.asp?edition=1&section=3&article=262

[DogToffee]

This is all really confusing and not my biggest concern right now. I just can't see tanning bed as a good option. I'll eat my vitamins and worry about this later.

So, day two without coffee. Drinking mate while writing this. I survived yesterday with three cups of green tea and the headache is almost gone now. I couldn't get enough sleep last night because my head felt so weird. Like small electric shocks going through my brain.

I usually eat my first meal in the afternoon, but today I was hungry when I woke up. Maybe I should start eating breakfast? Any suggestions that would help me heal?

[HIT_it_RAW]

This is all really confusing and not my biggest concern right now. I just can't see tanning bed as a good option. I'll eat my vitamins and worry about this later.

So, day two without coffee. Drinking mate while writing this. I survived yesterday with three cups of green tea and the headache is almost gone now. I couldn't get enough sleep last night because my head felt so weird. Like small electric shocks going through my brain.

I usually eat my first meal in the afternoon, but today I was hungry when I woke up. Maybe I should start eating breakfast? Any suggestions that would help me heal?

Personally I believe vitamin D might have benefits. All other vitamins sups I believe are unnecessary at best and quite possibly hurtfull.

Great job on the quitting coffee! You are motivating me to throw out my 1 cup a day. I'm not really addicted to it and don't notice anything like headaches if I don't drink any. But I quite like to have that one little thing I can consume with my colleagues at work. Social pressure... its a bitch.

I would definitely start having breakfast! It really kicks in your metabolism, ends catabolism(resulting from an 10hr or so fast during the night) and re-initiates anabolism which you need to heal anything. Breakfast is king.

I drink a green juice immediately upon awaking. This really boost my energy and makes me very hungry ~30min later. Than I usually have a large meat/liver, fat meal. If it is impossible (due to work, social pressure etc) to eat lunch it is not really a problem because I alreade have had my best meal of the day.

[achillezzz]

Hit it raw if you want to be really hungry at morning try waking up 30minutes before your normal wake call and go outside and do 5 ALL OUT sprints with 20sec rest between them.

Then go home take shower if want to sleep and have more time go sleep then when you wake up your body will be so hungry man its crazyy

[Dorothy]

Sabertooth - A heads up on cod liver oil for you:  The experts say that it is a poor source of vitamin D because the high content of vitamin A interferes with the absorption of the vitamin D. It's really either get yourself out in the sun or supplement according to them. How much we make in the sun is massively more than anything one could or should supplement for. Of course, 100%, getting into the sun is far superior if you can. Working 9 - 5 (in the US we work more like 9 - 8 six days a week) it can be very difficult and in northern climates even if you are retired it would be impossible a good part of the year.

Do you really think tanning beds work? Those things have always scared me. That seems more fake than just about anything. For some reason I've never trusted them.

Oh - and DogToffee - sorry about the diverging conversation in your journal. If you would like it out maybe one of the moderators can move it into my post on vitamin d?

[CitrusHigh]

Even if you do utilize tanning beds you need to remember that UVB creates vitamin D while UVA destroys it. So if you go to a tanning salon where they are leaned towards, or exclusively UVA, you will only be harming yourself. This is critical and it's fact, no two ways around it. I'm not saying UVA doesn't also have it's benefits, but for biosynthesizing Vitamin D with light rays, UVB is all there is.

And synthetic vitamin D is only beneficial to people who are badly deficient and refuse to eat a good diet. The only beneficial source of supplementary vitamin D is Green Pasture's Fermented Cod/Skate liver oil. And these are technically foods, not mechanically or solvent extracted oils, they are essentially raw foods only they are super nutrient dense so you take them in supplement doses instead of food doses.

[Dorothy]

Again Citrus High - the experts disagree. They say that cod liver oil is too high in vitamin A so does little for providing vitamin D.

But that bit about UVA in tanning beds is real important. I betcha that's why I could never get myself to go in one. My body refused. I bet she wanted to hold onto the vitamin D she had!

Did you see that in the video how after all these years they are finally admitting that sunscreen only blocks the UVB and allows in the UVA! Duh. No wonder the skin cancer rates have gone up so much. I also have avoided sun tan lotions ever since I started to try to tune into my body.

[CitrusHigh]

Dorothy, You're using chemically extracted or synthesized vitamin D and you are trying to tell me that unheated, fermented cod/skate liver oil is not good for you? Seems kind of hypocritical to me.

Everyone is of course entitled to their own views, but that is just the type of inconsistent  viewpoint that makes you and the RAF movement look suspicious. Fermented cod liver oil is allowed through my filter because it is a food, not a processed, industrial product. So far as I can tell your jarrow formula is sourced fromm sheeps wool. How do you think they extract the cholesterol from the sheeps wool? A chemical solvent to be sure. Then they take that and expose it to uv radiation and then likely use another solvent to isolate the synthesized vitamin d3. Does that sound healthy to you? If so then what in the world is wrong with processed foods? Of course jarrow's vitamin D3 not being healthy doesn't make FC(S)LO healthy, but it shows that you may have a faulty line of thinking.

Furthermore, I don't know what experts you are quoting but there are other experts that claim that vitamins D and A are synergistic NOT antagonistic. The WAPF site has numerous articles explaining why.

I agree that sun is probably the best source for vitamin D, but here in the northern latitudes it's either tanning beds (which would be great except for the accompanying EMR from the power units) or lots of seafood which may come with it's own inherent problems, or FC(S)LO which has been used for centuries and is a food, not an isolated industrial synthetic.

Plus you are practicing nutritionism, ie: 'science' (if you can call it that) tells us we should be getting x amount of this or that and y of another. When in reality there are so many compounds and subcompounds and co-compounds that to try and get a certain amount of any in a healthy way is virtually impossible. Nutritionism is faulty because you can neither know exactly how much of any nutrients you are getting because they vary from animal to animal and from habitat to habitat and plant to plant, nor can you even know all of the compounds in a food nor how each permutation of compounds is going to affect your health.

The best we can really do is stick to foods that have meet our standards ( are unheated, not chemically tainted, not animals fed unnatural diets, not gmo, etc) and try to get the foods that best complete our basic nutritional needs.

I eat FSLO because I can easily see the affects and because it meets my standards for being a food, not an industrial product.

If you haven't read the WAPF's section on CLO then I suggest you give it a check....

http://www.westonaprice.org/cod-liver-oil

Plus your 'experts' are assuredly studying folks on standard diet models or SAD diets, not people like ourselves who eat more intuitively/naturally.

[DogToffee]

Personally I believe vitamin D might have benefits. All other vitamins sups I believe are unnecessary at best and quite possibly hurtfull.

D is the only one I take because other vitamins I can get from food.

Great job on the quitting coffee! You are motivating me to throw out my 1 cup a day. I'm not really addicted to it and don't notice anything like headaches if I don't drink any. But I quite like to have that one little thing I can consume with my colleagues at work. Social pressure... its a bitch.

Well quitting should be easy then! Could you drink somethin else while others have coffee? Or just enjoy their company without drinking anything? I used to smoke and really miss the socializing on tobacco breaks, so I usually just go out with everyone else. Today someone asked me if I could give her a gicarette and was really surprised when I told her I don't smoke. She hadn't noticed I just stand there, talking.

I only drank one cup a day and it definitely did something to my brain chemistry. This feels just like quitting antidepressants.

I would definitely start having breakfast! It really kicks in your metabolism, ends catabolism(resulting from an 10hr or so fast during the night) and re-initiates anabolism which you need to heal anything. Breakfast is king.

I'll try that tomorrow. With the coffee, I was never hungry before afternoon. Hunger feels great because I haven't had much appetite lately. Maybe this will eventually cheer me up and I won't feel as tired anymore.

Maybe raw eggs for breakfast.

[Dorothy]

You read into my words more than I said Citrus High. I never said that cod liver oil is bad for anyone. I said that the experts that I have been reading said that you can't depend on it for your vitamin D needs. Other than in that respect I believe you completely that it's a wonderful food.  I also said that being in the sun is best, just that in our society as it is most people can't practically spend time in the middle of the day in the sun - especially with minimal clothing. The issue is that even eating a great amount of raw fish my husband seemed to be horrifically deficient in vitamin d. I also never said that I have read everything or know every expert or doctors' opinions. I have read/learned much on cod liver oil in from my local WAPF group. That doesn't mean I'm going to dismiss that others say it is not a good source. Please try not to read into my posts more than what they are.

Pills in general of course are inferior. It's a compromise. Vitamin D we produce from being in the sun. Everything else we seems to have a good food source to get sufficient levels. Getting enough vitamin d from our food seems to be really tricky if not impossible. Because we no longer live natural lives we have created an unnatural deficiency. If we were living naturally in all aspects of our lives we wouldn't have to even contemplate separate nutrients. Living healthy seems to be more than food, it also means being outdoors and if we aren't going to be outdoors, we have think about how to make up for it.

If suntanning salons are safe and will provide UVB that would be an alternative worth investigating. Has anyone done research on which beds/companies have beds that provide UVB and that they have experienced as being healthy for them?

[CitrusHigh]

My personal experience has been to the contrary and I take great pains to make sure that I do not run out of my Fermented Skate liver oil during the winter time especially. I can notice a difference in the way I feel and look, and a stark contrast at that. I attribute that mostly to the vitamin D. Of course I prefer the Skate Liver oil to the Cod liver oil but will use them interchangeably when I can afford to stock both of them to diversify the nutrient profile.

Do you have any personal experience with FCLO or FSLO Dorothy? I'm wondering because it would be interesting to know if you found them ineffective.

The Vitamin K2, the other most important vitamin for tooth and bone health along with A and D is the other reason I take the FSLO, because that one is nearly impossible to get in diet, even more so than D, and this has paid off for me. My front two teeth were nearly transparent on the bottom half years ago due to growing up SAD and especially with laaaaarge amounts of sodas like coke, pepsi and Dr. Pepper. But they have nearly remineralized and are becoming solid. In fact I have to take photos soon because I wanted to document the change, but it is now happening so rapidly that if I don't take photos soon, it  will be too late! This effect I attribute not to simple raw paleo, but specifically the FSLO/FCLO and Raw Dairy (because it worked for me, not that it will work for everyone). I think as long as you have adequate amounts of raw, bioavailable A, D and K2, anyone can experience this kind of tooth and bone healing, barring certain conditions which would specifically inhibit uptake or mechanism.

[sabertooth]

I use cod liver oil for my children just as my great grandmother had done for her own. Its good for vitamin A , D plus the essential fatty acids that would otherwise be lacking from their diets. I am kind of leery of the vitamin e that is often added as a preservative.

I speak from experience with tanning beds, I have used them regularly and have noticed an increase in overall well being. I know a woman who uses them for her cancer treatment and has managed to survive and live cancer free for over ten years after the doctors told her she would be lucky to live 5 if she didn't get chemo.

There are still many unknown about artificial tanning, but if you use the lower intensity beds, for only 20 minuets a week like I do, and you dont put toxic tanning lotions and sunscreens on, then I claim it can be great for overall health and vitality, with little risk.

EMFs may freak some people out but limited 20 minuet exposure in a tanning bed isn't much to worry about when you consider that many people live under power lines or office workers who are bathed in emfs daily from fluorescent lighting and computers. Not to mention all those who keep a cell phone pressed to their brain.

Basically from my prospective there is a non chemical more paleoesqe solution to about every health issue. Its an extreme stance , but I believe it is true for most cases, and if people want to keep playing around with supplemental alchemy, then thats a personal choice, but one that should not be endorsed by the main body of the raw paleo community.

[DogToffee]

My personal experience has been to the contrary and I take great pains to make sure that I do not run out of my Fermented Skate liver oil during the winter time especially. I can notice a difference in the way I feel and look, and a stark contrast at that. I attribute that mostly to the vitamin D. Of course I prefer the Skate Liver oil to the Cod liver oil but will use them interchangeably when I can afford to stock both of them to diversify the nutrient profile.

How much do you eat them? I've been thinking about ordering those at some point but they are really expensive. How long does one bottle last?

[Dorothy]

I've taken cod liver oil Citrus, but not my husband (too nasty for him). I noticed no difference at all when I took it, but I don't think I am or have been vitamin d deficient like him and I guess I'm not deficient in the other things cod liver oil has either.

Again, there are lots of things in cod liver oil which I'm sure are wonderful including the vitamin A and K2 and fatty acids and more. Different forms of K2 are in lots of foods though if my memory serves me. CLO seems like a healthy thing to eat - I'm certainly not suggesting that someone should not eat it. I'm just more concerned at the moment specifically with vitamin D. Why do you think that it was the vitamin D specifically Citrus instead of all the other things in CLO that made you feel better? Sounds like you are having some wonderful healing with your teeth. Nice to hear.

I've been trying to figure out ways for hubbie to get high doses of vitamin D within the scope of what is available, what doctors say about bio-availability and practicality. My husband and I read everything the doctor in the top video has written that we could find. I just trust intuitively and with my logical mind that he has a good understanding of vitamin D and it's bio-availability from different sources. He says not to depend on CLO as your source of Vitamin D.

Maybe I should try to find a way to reach him and ask him about tanning beds?

The best thing to do would be to change our lifestyles so that I can get both of us out into the sun in the middle of the day. 15 minutes in the sun the average person creates apx. 10,000 IU of vitamin D.

In the mean time until we can work out getting natural sunshine, we're sticking with what has made such a big positive difference so quickly.

The lady that beat cancer - did she do anything else besides tanning? That's really cool. 

[DogToffee]

Update on quitting coffee: I'm starting to feel better.

It's still hard to stay awake and hard to sleep at night but the headache is almost gone. I think I'll survive this. Just have to keep in mind not to start drinking coffee again. Propably next week I'll be fine and then after that I hope to notice some positive effects. I have to quit drinking green tea at some point and move to herbal teas. I already bought more licorice tea and also ginseng, thanks Dorothy.

Btw licorice has helped a lot. I think I feel so bad partly because my blood pressure drops when not having coffee. Besides the tea I also eat licorice root extract, it's hard, kind of like candy but better.

I'm surprised how easy it was to switch processed sugar to fruit. Today is my biggest test: I usually have sweets on Friday (and Saturday, and Sunday). Maybe I'll have raw chocolate and dried fruit instead. It might not be that much healthier but mentally it's important for me to keep eating the good stuff, not junk.

My skin is in a bad condition but it hasn't gotten worse so guess that's a plus. I try not to think about it too much - focusing on other things makes me forget about the pain and itching. I stopped using soap and have washed my hair and body with honey instead. I have no idea if that's smart but honey is a good cleaner and doesn't make my skin dry. Right now I can't stand oils at all, they make my skin itch like crazy. It feels much better with just sea salt.

I ordered some products and still waiting for them to arrive. Liquid zinc is a lifesaver but I'm all out now. Help is on the way and hopefully coming here soon. I also bought oregano oil and some other stuff I haven't tried yet, can't even remember it all.

[Dorothy]

While coming off of coffee perhaps asking some other plant friends for help would be a good thing. From gentlest to most powerful you can try chamomile, passionflower or valerian. They are all actually pretty gentle - nothing like taking a prescription or anything. They just calm the nerves a bit and are actually good for the nervous system. You do the same thing as the other teas. Chamomile tea also soothes the digestion. Valerian makes me go to sleep just smelling it (but I'm weird). 

Congratulations on your freedom from coffee and sugar. That's a really major accomplishment and you should be giving yourself some solid pats on the back! wOOt!

[DogToffee]

I'm all caffeine-free now! I'm only drinking herbal teas, not even green tea anymore. It was about two weeks of headaches but now I feel normal again.

I'm not doing so well with the sugars now - somehow they seem to lurk back into my diet. I'm considering quitting all sugars (fruit included) but not sure about this yet.

Not at all sure what to do next.

Just interested - anyone tried the elimination diet for treating allergies or skin symptoms?

[DogToffee]

From gentlest to most powerful you can try chamomile, passionflower or valerian. They are all actually pretty gentle - nothing like taking a prescription or anything. They just calm the nerves a bit and are actually good for the nervous system.

Valerian is great - I sometimes have trouble sleeping or feel restless in the evening and it makes me feel relaxed. Combined with lemon balm it makes me fall asleep instantly.

[Dorothy]

Oh - lemon balm is real nice too. 

Do you mean to say that you are regular sugar again - or just eating too much fruit.

Coffee acts very similar to sugar intake so often people that give up caffeine find that they increase their sugar intake to make up for it.

You did the harder of the two. If you can just replace all fake sugars with fruit you'd be handled.

One thing that can help is juice. It's got such a quick jolt of sugar that it can replace processed sugar until you move your way to whole fruits instead. Juices at least have all sorts of great healing things in them and some argue are the best thing for you - so that replacement would be a step up.

It's all about moving in the right direction.... which you are doing so nicely.

[DogToffee]

Do you mean to say that you are regular sugar again - or just eating too much fruit.

Too much fruit and also stupid things like bread and rice. And I normally never eat those.

Coffee acts very similar to sugar intake so often people that give up caffeine find that they increase their sugar intake to make up for it.

Okay, that's probably it. This is so much easier to deal with if I understand why I'm craving more carbs suddenly.

You did the harder of the two. If you can just replace all fake sugars with fruit you'd be handled.

True. I think I need some limits - maybe that only fruit and honey is allowed, no grains. This is weird because I usually like candy and chocolate but now find myself wanting to eat bread. I gave up grains years ago because they make my stomach hurt and haven't really missed them - until now. I have no idea why. Maybe I should try eating sweet potatoes or something?

One thing that can help is juice. It's got such a quick jolt of sugar that it can replace processed sugar until you move your way to whole fruits instead. Juices at least have all sorts of great healing things in them and some argue are the best thing for you - so that replacement would be a step up.

I'm too lazy for that. My favourite thing about raw foods is that I don't have to cook or do anything, just eat. Herbal teas are good and sweet enough. I'm not so much into sweet drinks - I like to chew my sugars.

[Dorothy]

I hear ya on the juices. It is work. Chewing your sugars I guess leaves you with fruit. Do you think you could limit yourself to fruit and honey - those two ARE raw paleo!

[DogToffee]

I'm back - and propably ready to take the next step.

I haven't been here since December. Maybe quitting coffee and sugars together was too much for me. It's weird how scary this is. Anyway, I think I can do the sugars now. I went through this thread and it had some great tips I can use.

I haven't had any coffee in months. Nobody believes me when I tell them, because I was the biggest caffeine addict they have known. I sometimes have taheebo tea but I feel like I don't need teas anymore.

I've stopped showering every day and shower once a week. I never thought this was possible. My skin is much less irritated. Also, spring is coming so my skin feels a lot better because of that. I excercise a lot and cannot tell anyone that I don't shower after workout. I just change into clean, dry clothes.

Also found this really interesting page:
http://naturescureforeczemaallergies.weebly.com/index.html

Okay, on with quitting processed sugar. Small steps (that feel like HUGE steps).

[Dorothy]

Welcome Back!

Taking one step at a time makes SOOOO much sense!

You deserve a big pat on the back for getting rid of that coffee monster. I know what a big step that is.

With sugar consumption (and now that caffeine is out of the picture) substituting fruits as the first step makes it not quite so hard.