Vitamin D

[Dorothy]

Sorry if this is a repeated subject but the search engine here needs all words to be 2 letters.

Cherimoya suggested vitamin D in another thread in which I posted links to detailed information on it, but I thought here I'd post a video that has the doctor who wrote the articles along with another video by a doctor too. These are short and to the point.

The Real Story on Vitamin D

Obesity And Vitamin D, What's The Connection?

Btw, different people produce more Vit. D for the same amount of time in the sun not only because of fat but genetics as well. But, if you are outside for 15 minutes in the sun people generally produce about 10,000 IU (if I remember that data point correctly). Not much to fear about toxicity me thinks with that kind of production being natural.

Hubbie didn't feel any results for a couple of weeks after starting 5,000 IU and this was with already taking 400 - 1000 daily for a long time before jumping it to 5,000 - so you might have to be patient if you are fighting a disease and want to see if vit D will help. 

[zeno]

In what form do members of this board take vitamin D?

I've heard of cod liver oil being a good source. Are there others?

[HIT_it_RAW]

that first vid sounds sooo much like a selling talk. I do take vit d though and the same brand as shown in the beginning of the video(solgar). I really believe in vitamin d importance and noticed big improvements last winter. didn't take any this summer. Just started again.

[TylerDurden]

I don't believe in the need for vitamin D supplements, supplements are mostly useless and are often harmful being so artificial. I do anyway eat raw fish and raw shellfish from time to time which are both rich in vitamin D, so I am not worried.

[Dorothy]

I posted a video somewhere else that explained why cod-liver oil is not a good source of vitamin D according to docs. Vitamin A interferes with it's absorption and cod liver oil is very high in vitamin A.

Of course the natural source is always better. The problem really is our unnatural lifestyles indoors working during the day. But unless people can quit their jobs or move to warm sunny places during the winter, there's not much choice. I'm hoping to get to a point in our work that when it warms up we can get outside in the middle of the day for 20 minutes. Hubbie has had great benefits from supplementation. I think it's the dose. He was taking 1,000 IU and it wasn't enough. It took 5,000 IU for weeks for it to build up to really beneficial levels.

The guy in the first video isn't selling anything. He's just a doctor that did research into the subject as far as I know. He wrote long articles that I posted elsewhere and this was a newsy interviewy kinda thing where they always make it sound like your selling things. Kind of annoying I know, but that's the director.

If anyone wants me to find the more detailed articles and post them here I'll do that. Most people rather have the short video version I suspect though.

[Haai]

In what form do members of this board take vitamin D?

Now brand soft gel capsules, 5000 IU per capsule.

[Dorothy]

Oh, yeah, brand. We got Jarrow 5,000 because it has extra virgin olive oil as the base. Badly processed with high heat, vegetable or possibly rancid oils we avoid like the plague.

[zeno]

So what are some ways to get a healthy and high dose of vitamins A and D from wild sources? Is there a food source that secures 5,000 IU of vitamin A and D? Does FCLO provide that much for you Citrus High?

Also, Citrus High, do you use Green Pasture FCLO and FSLO?

I tried searching for a local source of FCLO and couldn't find one. I would prefer not to have to rely on  a food product I have to order over the internet, but I don't know of other sources of vitamin A and D.

[Dorothy]

Zeno, from what I understand the body can synthesize vitamin A from beta carotene and there are many vegetable sources of beta carotene including carrots and greens. Carrot juice gives a big hit of vitamin A and that's why the Gerson folks juice so much carrots as cancer is one of the outcomes of vitamin A deficiency (and vitamin D and C too).

Cod liver oil from what I understand is extremely high in vitamin A because liver is so high in vitamin A. You can just eat liver and you will get tons of it that way too.

They say that fish is high in vitamin D, but I think it would be hard to eat enough. The sun is really the best source. I'm interested in the tanning bed idea. There are tanning salons all over the place here.

[TylerDurden]

Supplements are neither raw nor palaeo. This topic belongs in the hot topics forum. Moved there now.

As far as vitamin D is concerned, the toxicity threshold is cited as being anywhere between 10,000 IU to 40,000 IU/day.

IMO, it's far better to eat raw seafood  and other iodine-rich foods and expose as much skin as possible in the summer. The body needs only tiny trace amounts of the vitamin anyway.

[Haai]

The body needs only tiny trace amounts of the vitamin anyway.

Is this also in your opinion or have you read this somewhere?

[TylerDurden]

Is this also in your opinion or have you read this somewhere?

Both.

[sabertooth]

Vitamin D is made from cholesterol that has been exposed to UV rays under the skin. Perhaps the real problem with vitamin d deficiency begins with a cholesterol deficiency along with lack of sunshine. People have become so afraid of cholesterol that they don't realize how essential it is for optimal health.

There are also probiotic bacteria that live on the skin that produce other proto vitamin substances that allow for better absorbing of vitamin D through the skin. People who take antibiotics or over-wash with antibacterial agents will lose the ability to to make and absorb vitamin d from the sun.

[zeno]

There are also probiotic bacteria that live on the skin that produce other proto vitamin substances that allow for better absorbing of vitamin D through the skin. People who take antibiotics or over-wash with antibacterial agents will lose the ability to to make and absorb vitamin d from the sun.

Intense! The implications are profound!

[Dorothy]

There are also probiotic bacteria that live on the skin that produce other proto vitamin substances that allow for better absorbing of vitamin D through the skin. People who take antibiotics or over-wash with antibacterial agents will lose the ability to to make and absorb vitamin d from the sun.

Do you mean lose completely the ability to make vitamin D from the sun? Probably you mean reduced ability right? Losing the ability completely is a very big statement. Very interesting points about low cholesterol diets and washing! So much of what we have to do to keep healthy is just because we aren't living naturally.

Tyler - where did you read that we only need a tiny bit of vitamin d. I read that we make a LOT naturally when we are exposed to the sun. Why would we make so much when if we need so little?

[TylerDurden]

Do you mean lose completely the ability to make vitamin D from the sun? Probably you mean reduced ability right? Losing the ability completely is a very big statement. Very interesting points about low cholesterol diets and washing! So much of what we have to do to keep healthy is just because we aren't living naturally.

Tyler - where did you read that we only need a tiny bit of vitamin d. I read that we make a LOT naturally when we are exposed to the sun. Why would we make so much when if we need so little?

  Perhaps we need to ingest so little precisely because it is assumed that we take in a little bit from the sun as well, for a little bit each year. Whatever the case, excess vitamin D is dangerous to one's health.

[Dorothy]

  Perhaps we need to ingest so little precisely because it is assumed that we take in a little bit from the sun as well, for a little bit each year. Whatever the case, excess vitamin D is dangerous to one's health.

Oh, I get it, you are referring to the recommendations for how much to get in the diet. I guess that's the point of the doc in the first video - that the recommendations are way too low with how little time modern people spend in the sun.

Taking too much, I would think, would be hard if you aren't out in the sun like most Westerners though (not usually paleos probably who are trying to live more naturally).

How much we need (from diet) also depends on how much fat we have in our bodies and (besides how much sun we get) apparently how much cholesterol we eat and make and how much we wash and if we've taken antibiotics. It's also dependent on the color of our skins.  Lots of variables it seems.

[CitrusHigh]

Both.

Really Ty? Can you point us to that source. Because I call BS. Vit D, for most of us in northern lats is just plain tough to to get. And it's used by sooooo many genes for so many functions. Thanks!

[cherimoya_kid]

  Whatever the case, excess vitamin D is dangerous to one's health.

Yeah, meanwhile, I am improving my sleep quality, stopping teeth-grinding during sleep, reducing dental plaque, strengthening my teeth, controlling my dermatitis/dandruff, and improving my emotional calm....with vitamin D supplements. 

I don't really trust supplements any more than you do....but it really works for me.  I'd be happy to get it all from diet and sunbathing if I could get foods that had enough, and lived somewhere that had enough direct sunlight in the winter.  I can't and I don't, though.  That's why I supplement, because it controls so many symptoms.   

[ys]

Maybe the excess is not as bad as A and E because D is not really a vitamin but a steroid (or more precisely steroid-like).

[TylerDurden]

Really Ty? Can you point us to that source. Because I call BS. Vit D, for most of us in northern lats is just plain tough to to get. And it's used by sooooo many genes for so many functions. Thanks!

   First of all, unlike with some other substances, excess vitamin D can be quite serious, causing mental retardation in infants, for example:-

http://www.marmaramedicaljournal.org/text.php3?id=410

Another paper claims that only old people really need vitamin D supplementation, and even then it suggests that no more than 600 IU a day is necessary, and then only if old people don't expose their bodies to the sun or eatvtaimin D rich foods in their diet:-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7879731

The pdf file version is more explanatory:-

"The recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for vitamin D is 5 !.Lg (200 IU) (40). It is likely, however, that without casual exposure to sunlight, the RDA for vitamin D is at least two to three times more, or

[achillezzz]

Caveman didnt have any COD LIVER OIL  nor the pdfs to read and see which foods to eat, yet he did just fine on his 1 or 2 meals a day diet, lots of sunshine exposure and vigorous exercise such as hunting!

[eveheart]

Animals ingest and manufacture vitamin D, too. Cod fish get vitamin D in their livers through the food chain. IIRC (from third grade science class), the sun is the source of energy, and all living things on earth either manufacture nutrients directly from the sun and earth, or ingest a food that has turned sun and earth into nutrients. As long as I am eating appropriate food, I can't help ingesting all the nutrients I need. My cave brain thinks this should be enough.

My cosmopolitan brain says, "Slow down! You do not need to fix everything overnight with supplements. In fact, sudden results indicate an opposite imbalance (pendulum swing). That does not mean that balance has been achieved. Stay on the right course and you will attain balance and be well."

[KD]

if you care about having proper D levels you need to get it elsewhere than food. period. which means year round full body sun, sunbeds or supplements, no question about it. Its physically impossible to get above even medically deficient levels through eating ANY amount of whole foods without regular sun exposure, tan beds or supplements. Vit D was meant to be absorbed almost entirely through sun and not food, so barring sun there is pretty much one way to look at this issue.

http://gizmodo.com/5823058/tanning-can-cause-cancer-but-not-tanning-could-cause-a-lot-worse

here is a basic, easy to understand non-science article. There are plenty of scientific papers suggesting the same. ALL conclusively that you cannot absorb toxic amounts of D from the sun which can get in the 20,000 IU to 30,000 IU or more! daily.  This is regulated by skin pigmentation to avoid toxic absorption. 1 kilo of the highest D seafood daily is 1/10 this amount.



As per usual, people arguing about what-should-happen-when, instead of measuring their actual intake/blood level/performance etc... This particularly making no sense, as even Inuits get year round sun exposure and consume tons of animal D and have evolved a specific and much different regulatory system for vid D than whites. Even this wild-food megadose and sun tends to work out to having moderate, not best levels - and that is mostly due to their high fat diet.  For a modern person, anything short of daily sun, or massive sun in summer (Higher levels are needed for storing D in winter months) and sunny vacations its either low (or dangerously low) levels of D - which slows down a variety of vital process -  or some other tactic.

[Ioanna]

my vitamin d was extremely low just after last winter and was higher, but still quite low at the end of the summer.  my doctor gave me a prescription for 50,000 IU once per week that i took for eight weeks, then got retested.  my levels are now normal, not even high. i have been advised to remain on 2,000 IU daily, and i'm planning to do this.