To Paleo PhilGCB : Thus, it is always a delusion to believe we could apply rules about what and how much would be healthy or unhealthy.
W onderful, that's reassuring. So I don't have to abide by any rule that artificially limits intake of high quality mammal meat or favors fowl over mammal meat of equal or greater quality?
This stands true only with non domesticated animals (as already mentioned several times, instinctive stop is very hazy with beef, mutton, pork…) and furthermore if you have a sufficient choice at your disposal. If you mentally restrain your choice to red meat, your body will cope with it to find calories and other nutrients, and the taste will remain more or less attractive. That is then the danger, the need of nutrients goes over the immune problems, and you can eat and eat meat as though it were necessary to your organism. But in the long run severe problems may arise.
As a matter of fact, meat seems then necessary (and so not repulsive) because you don’t have anything else than meat at your disposal. To find out if you need something else, you must at first have a large choice of products, stop eating meat for a little while and by every meal try all products to see which one will help you to come out of the vicious circle.
You can’t know if you really need great quantities of meat without trying regularly other foodstuffs in sufficient variety. Within the above conditions, I never saw people who still ate instinctively very large quantities of meat for more than some weeks – or a few months in the most extreme cases.
To Inger
But now I eat elk every day, raw without spices. It is my staple food (I do eat fresh wildcaught fish and oysterz etc. for variation - some fruits (Orkos) too at times). I just love the elk - also the organs. Makes me feel so good. I cannot imagine I will never get tired of it. It so belongs to here (Finland).
Elk tastes... hmm. Some says it has a gamey taste but I find it quite mild tasting? Sure it has a stronger taste than Beef. Maybe the taste is a little iron-like? More complex that beef though. Complex and rich.
Exactly so: I noticed, as part of instincto that red meat taste slightly iron-like when we become overloaded with it. When I read you, my first reaction would be that you eat too much meat, perhaps because you force yourself mentally to consume it in priority against other foods. I myself was a victim of this type of bias: knowing by nutritional science that it provides important elements, I had from the beginning (from about 1966) a favorable a priori for meat, so that I regularly forced somewhat the instinctive stops. As I ate mainly beef at the time, whose taste veers only very slightly to stop, I found myself overloaded to the point of a tumor in my left knee (in 1988), which recurred after surgery and then faded spontaneously simply by adjusting the protein intake correctly.
I guess long long ago when no agriculture existed here, that was the staplefood of people living here. Also reindeer. There are no fruits growing, berries yes, but you cannot live from them only. You could get some fish also - except the Sea is quite polluted here because of Russia.
How comes hat tribes living on mostly mammal-meat do not became cancer? As long as they ate it the natural way, not smoked and salted and fried…
Of course there is not much else to eat in these latitudes. But we cannot think like you do, because the human body isn’t genetically adapted to such climates. It is through the fire, hunting and perhaps cooking that our distant ancestors left the tropics to settle in the cold regions. Moreover, data are missing on how their body reacted, what their illnesses, their rates of cancer, their lifespan, etc. were and what exactly they ate. Fortunately you have a more varied diet, but your wording resonates sometimes like the one of people who don’t apply the rules of instinctive regulation.
I just cannot get it out of my head, as I have been thinking exactly the same thoughts as Van. How could the Indians survive on mostly mammals meat?
Beware of claims boasted in lack of any reliable data: AFAIK there have been no studies that determines the amount of meat consumed by the Indians or the quantities of other food they could find, nor their lifespan and diseases. BTW, they were decimated by the smallpox brought by the Europeans. The only thing we can say is that they lived long enough to breed, but here in Europe, with the awful nutrition of the Middle Ages, people could also reproduce - otherwise we would not be here. In lack of sound scientific data, I prefer to trust my own observations.
If your hypothesis is, meat from mammals might give cancer - how do you explain people who healed from cancer eating raw meat from mammals?
Beware of reasoning: I don’t say that meat of mammals always gives cancer! I say that an overload of proteins, especially of mammals, can cause certain cancers in the long run. The cases you're talking about may be about people who ate a lot of cooked meat, cheese etc.. and have dropped below the overload threshold by eating raw meat. We must also see how long these "cures" lasted. In addition, stories of healing make more noise than those of people who die of their cancer as the norm is...
Are you sure you have not mis-impreted the cause of your wife's cancer?
It’s the hypothesis that is the most likely in view of my own case given above and a few others cases.
Maybe it was stress, causing it? Cancer often have also psychological causes. Was she stressed out, or harmoniously happy? Was your marriage happy and fulfilling for both of you?
I am personally convinced that stress also played a role. My wife very poorly endured a tax adjustment as the French administration is so expert in, something which threatened to totally wreck us. But I don’t think the psychological pressure alone has been enough to disrupt her immune system. The psychological cause does not preclude the physiological cause.
I am sure your wife was eating lot of delicious fruits along with the 200 grams of mammal-meat.. who knows if that was not so good? Too much sugar? From domesticated sources? It would be intresting to know what else your wife ate, in addition to the beef.
She did not eat more fruits and sweet foods than other instinctos, rather less precisely because she compensated for it with meat, always consumed at the beginning of the meal. I have never seen a correlation between large portions of sweet fruit and tumors. But it is true that I have no experience of people eating a lot of meat and nothing else, as when we obey to our instinct it automatically prevents unilateral diets.
The Indians, and every tribe that ate lot of meat also ate wild berries (that are known to have great anticancer properties) as also wild herbs, mushrooms etc. Might be, that these were needed to eliminate the possibly negative consequences of eating that much mammal meat...?
We don’t use such ways of thinking in the instincto context: it’s not the anti-cancer properties of vegetables that prevent cancer, but rather the fact that these plants prevent imbalances that would result from a too one-sided consumption of meat.
I do eat a lot of wild berries and greens (in summer)... it feels just so good to eat them. Like they were needed somehow.
You follow your instinct here and you’re spot-on!
To Goodsamaritan
If wild birds' proteins are remote...
...then wild ocean fish / clams / oysters / shrimp / crab must be remote from us as well?
Indeed, it is probably better to focus in order, on: plant proteins (nuts, lentils, peas...), shellfish (oysters, clams, mussels ...), arthropods (shrimp, crabs, crayfish, insects ... ), wild ocean fish (sardines, mackerel, herring ...), eggs, poultry (goose, duck, chicken... or better: wild birds), and if nothing in the above is satisfying, wild mammal meat. These kind of intellectual preferences seems a priori contrary to a purely instinctive choice but we should take account of the fact that, if we exclude the relatively recently mastered hunting techniques, meat of large mammals is somewhat difficult to obtain in nature and leftovers from predators are relatively rare. So, over some weeks or months, your’e sure to cover your needs in the best conditions.
I have this same experience as Iguana.
Such talk of anti-fruit makes me believe the fruits you get are far different from mine.
You’re right: I could see in America how fruit tasted, even 50 years ago. I think they are much more fade and boring now with all the advances in agricultural industry… Even here in Europe, instincto is hardly praticable with the commercial fruits. That’s why I created a predecessor of Orkos in Switzerland in the 70s. BTW I have no longer any interest in Orkos...
