raw vegans have problems

[Dorothy]

Tyler - what I wrote about being an act of violence is not an opinion - it is a fact that is acted upon as such by law enforcement and everyone involved in treating the victims and the offenders. What you said is one of the worst problems faced by the victims. Often rape victims are victimized more by their husbands, family and the society because of that wrong assumption. They are shamed when they shouldn't be and sadly often refuse to come forth because of it to put away the criminals and get the help that they need to heal. The "you must have done something to attract him" idea is completely and absolutely false. As I said, there are women that get raped in their 80's. It's a crime of violence stemming from a feeling of powerlessness. Faulting the victim of a violent crime is what is shameful.

[TylerDurden]

The above is just nonsense. I agree that in previous centuries women were unfairly blamed due to outdated laws etc.. But these are different times, and it is ridiculous to fail to acknowledge the fact that women who expose lots of body-parts are more likely to get raped.

To give one example. I have a female relative who, decades ago, went all around the Middle-East. She was pestered far less if she covered herself properly than if she wore Western-style clothing which exposed parts of her body.

Whether women are raped in their 80s is irrelevant. After all, casual rapists will target whatever available woman they can find.

Take the famous example of my Viking ancestors. They went in for rape(due to avenging past transgressions against them of a similiar nature by Charlemagne and his contemporaries), and this was undoubtedly a sexual approach not a crime of violence, given that the number of blonds/redheads in Europe increased as a result thereafter, there being no effective birth-control in those days.

[Dorothy]

The above is just nonsense. I agree that in previous centuries women were unfairly blamed due to outdated laws etc.. But these are different times, and it is ridiculous to fail to acknowledge the fact that women who expose lots of body-parts are more likely to get raped.

To give one example. I have a female relative who, decades ago, went all around the Middle-East. She was pestered far less if she covered herself properly than if she wore Western-style clothing which exposed parts of her body.

Whether women are raped in their 80s is irrelevant. After all, casual rapists will target whatever available woman they can find.

Take the famous example of my Viking ancestors. They went in for rape(due to avenging past transgressions against them of a similiar nature by Charlemagne and his contemporaries), and this was undoubtedly a sexual approach not a crime of violence, given that the number of blonds/redheads in Europe increased as a result thereafter, there being no effective birth-control in those days.

WHAT?! Are you honestly equating "pestering" with molestation, rape and jerking off at a woman! Are you honestly saying that the raping Vikings were not violent!?

Today, not in the 80's, women still don't come forward to report rapists and suffer terribly because of such backward attitudes.

What is considered sexually appealing dress? I guess you think that women in the west should go back to victorian times to not show any skin (never wear a short-sleeve shirt or tank top, not grow long hair - I mean men can construe just about anything as sexual)  to make sure they won't get raped - when it has already been proven by the professionals that deal with rape that it makes no difference! You think women should hide and cower under material and block themselves from the sun huh. You think that women born in the east that are forced to hide under all that cloth get more respect do you?   

Please - educate yourself on the subject Tyler. Take some courses or something because putting more of that kind of thing out into the world is harmful.

I have just come to the conclusion that conversing with you on anything except direct food issues seems to have just negative results as you are not looking to learn or change any of your ideas. More importantly - you seem generally to like setting a confrontational tone. That does not interest me. I am no longer going to participate in a direct discussion on this subject or any similar subjects with you in the future if it can be avoided while still participating in the forum. I think it is for the best. I thank you though for all you have taught me in regards to diet. That has been very useful and deeply appreciated.

[PaleoPhil]

Please - educate yourself on the subject Tyler. Take some courses or something because putting more of that kind of thing out into the world is harmful.

I have just come to the conclusion that conversing with you on anything except direct food issues seems to have just negative results as you are not looking to learn or change any of your ideas. More importantly - you seem generally to like setting a confrontational tone.

Welcome to Durdenland, Dorothy. I tried to prepare you for this (probably insufficiently, as it doesn't bother me as much as it does most others, for some reason--I dare not ponder why), but nothing can fully prepare one for it. I hope that other elements of the forum make up for this unpleasant aspect.

I doubt that Tyler can help behaving as he does, and I doubt that he can comprehend how socially inappropriate his views and comments come across. I suspect that he is what he is through no fault of his own, which is why his insults don't bother me much, other than being mildly annoying, like little gnats at times.  I do recognize that not many people can put up with his behavior, but I do because I occasionally glean interesting snippets of knowledge from him and at least he does at times provide supporting evidence--so rare on the Internet these days, and kudos to Tyler for that (unfortunately, he doesn't always read the sources he provides beyond the abstract or opening paragraphs). I don't think he means any real harm with his outlandish views and insults or can comprehend why folks take umbrage, though I could be wrong.

At any rate, expecting him to change is probably futile. So I accept Tyler as he is and try to have some fun with all of it--putting up with the guff to get the juice--but most folks should probably just avoid engaging him. Probably a wise choice on your part, given what seems like your positive and sensitive feminine nature that I treasure.

And I will not be surprised if some choice insults from him directed at me follow this post. If I'm lucky, they'll be lusciously anachronistic.

[cherimoya_kid]

To be fair, neither Tyler nor Dorothy has the complete right of it.  It's way more complex that either is willing to admit.  Rape, particularly violent rape by a stranger, generally is is a crime of violence, largely.  However, it's also true that men, particularly the more ignorant ones, are prone to make assumptions about a woman based on how she dresses, and treat her accordingly.  I'd say there are quite a few date rape (and acquaintance rape) situations that are partly created by suggestive dress.  Certainly not entirely created by dress, but partly. Those types of rape aren't as much violence/anger driven as simply the desire for sex, plus ignorance, plus miscommunication. 

Alcohol/drugs also play a VERY large role in rapes, in terms of reducing a man's good judgment and ability to discern what a woman wants.  As well, women are less likely to be able to consent intelligently and communicate consent if they are high/drunk.

[Dorothy]

Ah Phil, you are like a breath of fresh air. My whole self feels the oxygen, relaxation and healing of your words. You did warn me and it did/does help. I can separate out what serves me and what doesn't. I do prefer to embrace the gentler side of myself in general these days. I am trying to relax, learn and make my life generally a bit happier in every way that I spend my time and this forum (especially since you are here) is part of that. 

Cherimoya I agree that drugs are a big influence in crime in general. Impulse control being turned off and brain chemistry gone amuck creates all sorts of problems for society. It's good that you brought that up. I also agree that human behavior is complicated and date rape is a particularly delicate subject to talk about and that's why it's even more important to consider the power issues involved and support the women in dropping the self-blame and shame that predators so often count on and use against them. The idea that it's someone's fault that they were forced to do sexual acts that they didn't want to because of something they wore or because they did something else with consent only makes sense for a person that wants to force themselves on someone else and make it ok in their own mind. Over-riding someone else's will and harming them physically and emotionally is pretty much the definition of violence.
 

[TylerDurden]

I see PP is behaving childishly as usual. He can't win against me on a logical, rational basis in argument, so has to resort to this sort of drivel. Sad, really....

As regards rape, there seems to be a misunderstanding here. I did NOT suggest that women who wore very little clothing "deserved"  to be raped nor did I suggest that "pestering" was the same as rape.  I merely meant that flashing sexual signals like bare skin does activate a man's sexual awareness, therefore making rape more likely if that is a subject already on his mind.

As regards the Middle-East, actually covering up has indeed made women safer, in general. For example, there were a couple of cases, a while back , of female foreign tourists being raped and killed by men simply because the women wanted to swim at a local beach and changed into swimwear.

 The argument that rape is only about violence, is, of course, utter nonsense. Rape, for example, is also one, albeit immoral, way of passing on one's genes. Rape even occurs quite often in the animal world(re dolphins etc.). Not stating that it is "OK"    , merely that rape, from a scientific point of view, is not only about violence/power but about sex and reproduction, too. That's why most rapes are of women of reproductive age:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociobiological_theories_of_rape#Human_rape

[RawZi]

    Rape may happen and does to many reproductive age women. It also happens to men, to toddlers and to old women. I spoke with sixty year old SaD dieter woman who hadn't mentruated in over a decade. Her husband had just gotten a heart attack and died because she was brutally raped the year before and he couldn't get over the helpless emotion he felt to what happened to her.

   I dont know what happened in Saudi Arabia, but many rapists are so afraid of venereal disease that they only rape virginal looking people or only rape heavily clothed women who look too religious to be having risky sex.

    I find flashing disturbing, but being raped would be much worse.

    I met a raw vegan guy while I was still vegan. He was an older man and frequented Costa Rica a lot. He was extremely annoying and following me [even to my hotel etc) and talking about a number of things including some guru friend of his in CR. So as he was trying to physically push his way into my room, I called his guru a child rapist (just something I channeled). He verbally agreed with me and quickly continued with his spiel. I slammed the door hard, bolted it and called the front desk and kept him away.

[svrn]

I agree that while a womans choice of dress may be a factor in getting raped (among an infinite number of other factors), I believe it is irrelevant to the validity of the factor of violence and dominance which is undoubtedly the main factor in such crimes.

[Dorothy]

Troll - you and I are seeing eye to eye. The power and violence issues are at the core. I really want to get that point across to any woman that might be reading this -- as well as any men or children for that matter who have been victims. You never know who might be reading and what experiences they might have had or will have.

If you are going about being you and someone forces you to do (or does something to you) that you clearly have stated (or that it is obvious) that you don't want, even if you were flirting or kissing, fondling or in any way being natural in your own body, relaxed in your own sexual energy and expression - including your dress - it is NOT your fault! It is someone forcing themselves on you in violence. Your spouse and/or family were also violated. Please find support and hold onto the ones that you love and make sure if you can that you do what you can to make sure that the violent person that did that to you won't do it to someone else. Make sure you talk about it - report it! Make sure you work it through. Even if you were in a bikini with high heels and lots of makeup - that gives NO ONE the right to abuse you.

The Justice Department estimates that one in five women will experience rape or attempted rape during their college years alone! And less than five percent of these rapes will be reported. That's just the college years mind you and even the elderly are raped.

Domestic violence is another aspect of this discussion where women feel trapped and unable to protect themselves and occurs much more in low-income households.

The number of women dealing with this issue is astronomical. Women and families often feel alone because they won't talk - when in fact - it's such a common experience that it's heart-wrenching.

Women can feel shamed or trapped or without options. You have options.

And I want to mention something that I think is pertinent to this forum. Natural life energy is connected to sexual energy. When you are very strong and healthy from eating well you likely will exude life force. It can be misinterpreted. Don't let fear stop you from letting your light shine. With such a high percentage of women being victims, I highly suggest women practice a martial art - just like it makes sense to eat a cancer preventing diet with the high cancer statistics in the United States.

If you want to prevent violence and disease, learn to defend yourself - don't count on cowering because often perpetrators look for people that they perceive to be weak and easier targets and cowering when it comes to health just doesn't work. I think it's better to be pro-active and take charge of your own body and make sure you know how to defend it. Don't depend on anyone else doing it for you.

Well - that's enough of my rant. I got it out and now need a good long rest. 

[TylerDurden]

The absurd claim re "1 in 4/1 in 5 female college students being sexually assaulted" has already been conclusively debunked by others:-

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/263834/are-one-five-college-women-sexually-assaulted-heather-mac-donald

http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9502/sommers.html

http://homepage.mac.com/chadhermann/iblog/C1669226185/E20080225125015/index.html

[RawZi]

    Whether it is one percent or ninety-nine percent who get raped while young, old, middle age female or other, you are responsible for you in all ways.  And yes, there are organizations who can give you good support, if you don't have a support system of your own (thats another deal).

[Dorothy]

The number of women being abused by other members of their family, being raped (or the attempt) and who are accosted by men on subways or being forced to do many things they don't want to do or who feel trapped or alone in their feelings of helplessness as victims is a larger number than anyone imagines or any statistic come up with in the United states..... and there are entire cultures across the globe where the number includes every woman citizen.

Here in the United States there are many programs that can help women in such situations. At the very least there are support groups so you don't have to go through it all alone. There are also many self-defense classes geared to teaching women how to protect themselves. If you can possibly afford one - these are wonderful. Once you realize that you have choices - that if someone grabs your arms that you also have feet and a head to defend yourself with, when you are taught ways to escape and attitudes to take to prevent attack - your confidence rises, the world and your choices open up and life becomes fuller, calmer and it radiates through all your life.

I can go anywhere, talk to anyone openly and lovingly without fear of misinterpretation and danger and I can wear anything I want and know that I am safe. Best of all - I know how to avoid situations entirely. Taking that power and control that others think they have over you because they are stronger back into yourself is a beautiful way to live and not known by many women. I highly recommend it. 
 

[Inger]

I was almost raped by my Thai Tchi  teacher, a guy that practised Chinese Medicine in Helsinki as I was 19 year old. I was able to escape though.
Later two of my bosses tried to do stuff I did not like, like asked for a kiss (a real kiss).. grabbed my ass.. tell me how much they liked me.. such things.
Now, after growing strong, eating lots of raw meat, no man has ever suggested such things to me anymore, just wanted to take me out for coffee, or a glass of wine - very polite . I clothed much more "moralistic" back then than I do now. Now I love tiny skirts, in summer especially, I dress quite femininely. When those things happened before,  I wore long skirts and such. So I personally do not believe a cent in the theory that "feminine beauty" makes anyone rape.
No way!

Inger.

[Dorothy]

I was almost raped by my Thai Tchi  teacher, a guy that practised Chinese Medicine in Helsinki as I was 19 year old. I was able to escape though.
Later two of my bosses tried to do stuff I did not like, like asked for a kiss (a real kiss).. grabbed my ass.. tell me how much they liked me.. such things.
Now, after growing strong, eating lots of raw meat, no man has ever suggested such things to me anymore, just wanted to take me out for coffee, or a glass of wine - very polite . I clothed much more "moralistic" back then than I do now. Now I love tiny skirts, in summer especially, I dress quite femininely. When those things happened before,  I wore long skirts and such. So I personally do not believe a cent in the theory that "feminine beauty" makes anyone rape.
No way!

Inger.

Way to go Inger!
You found the way to your power and strength.
I think there are probably many women who can relate to what you said. I can. The stronger and more confident I feel - the less men act out with me. Doesn't matter what age or how I'm dressed.

[billy4184]

Man is but a beast. Without self-control, there can only be savagery.

[svrn]

I also shouldnt leave out that I also firmly believe there are many false accusations of rape happening today in America. The whole sexual harassment thing often goes too far in prosecuting people and sometimes when a woman regrets a choice she made, she will simply say she was raped and not have to answer for her actions. And the court will simply take the woman's word over the man's 90 percent of the time. There have actually been cases where women have been proven as falsely accusing men of rape and let off without any repurcussions. One famous recent example is that of the meteorologist heidi jones if anyone cares to look it up.

Both sides of the argument have valid points to make.

I think the solution either way would be the second amendment. An armed society is a polite society as I always say, and if you're worried about getting raped at all, then just bring your gun.

[Dorothy]

But Troll - gotta use like force or the woman can land herself in jail! You also have to learn to use it well or it can end up being used against you or provoking something worse. No gun for me ever. No need either.

And yeah - the system really sucks in general when it comes to false accusations, being set up, getting worse treatment if you don't have money or if you are a certain color. That applies to all sorts of crimes. That's another issue entirely. But remember...... there are many, many, many more women that get harassed/abused and don't report it than those who report it wrongly.

Nowadays luckily rape kits demonstrating violence and with dna proof are pretty standard. The false accusations are few and far between especially compared to how few women are willing to file charges even when brutally beaten. 

[svrn]

But Troll - gotta use like force or the woman can land herself in jail! You also have to learn to use it well or it can end up being used against you or provoking something worse. No gun for me ever. No need either.

Under the constitution, like force isnt an issue. If someone is treading on your rights in any way, that gives you the right to kill them, no questions asked. Like the castle law in texas where if someone trespasses on your property, thats no questions asked permission to kill them on the spot. Or like in new york where if the trespasser trips on your stairs you can get sued.

also false accusations are not as common as you may think. Promiscuous females who want to blame their behavior on someone else are quite common in America. You may want to peruse this site for more info on such matters.

http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/

[TylerDurden]

Err, Kanin and others point to a false accusation of rape percentage as being anywhere from 40% to 98% of all rape allegations:-

http://www.angryharry.com/esMostRapeAllegationsAreFalse.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,194032,00.html

[Dorothy]

Under the constitution, like force isnt an issue. If someone is treading on your rights in any way, that gives you the right to kill them, no questions asked. Like the castle law in texas where if someone trespasses on your property, thats no questions asked permission to kill them on the spot. On like in new york where if the trespasser trips on your stairs you can get sued.

also false accusations are not as common as you may think. Promiscuous females who want to blame their behavior on someone else are quite common in America. You may want to peruse this site for more info on such matters.

http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/

Well, if you don't mind taking your case to the supreme court Trollofdungeon then you go ahead and shoot when some man gets frisky with you. I'll just use some gentler means to let them know that I'm not a good victim for them.

Oh - and you get sued in Texas too if someone slips on your stairs (as long as they weren't breaking in). There are other laws that are pretty wonky here too. I thought when I moved here that people would act better because they would be tarred and feathered and dragged behind a horse if they didn't - but alas - the old west is dead - only the hat and boots remain.

I'm afraid that I don't really have the time or desire to read through that blogspot Troll. It's a bunch of individual cases.

What a world we live in huh? Women getting raped, abused and harassed from all angles and women using that for their own screwed up purposes also making it even harder for women who have been seriously harmed to be taken seriously.

Well Troll, we've come a long way in our discussion from the vegan guy on the subway haven't we?

[svrn]

Threads often stray from the original topic. Cant say the original was too important in this case.

[Dorothy]

Threads often stray from the original topic. Cant say the original was too important in this case.

Very glad you feel that way.