raw milk vs. raw cheese?

[Joy2012]

I am thinking of doing a raw-milk-only diet for a couple of weeks. The booklet in the following link explains the healing power of a milk-only diet. I can obtain pasture-fed raw milk/dairy at a local farm.

http://milk-diet.com/classics/macfadden/macfaddenmain.html

However, I would like to modify this milk-only diet by including raw cheese  (with plenty of water) along with raw milk.
My question is: Is raw cheese as good as raw milk? Does anyone know?

[TylerDurden]

If you have no allergy towards raw dairy, things should be fine. I think(?) Aajonus claims that some people who are fine with raw dairy in general may sometimes get constipation from eating raw cheese, but that's all.

[raw-al]

I love raw dairy, however I am not sure I would go too long on any exclusive diet.

Here is a quote
"The exclusive milk diet should not be prescribed, ordinarily, for one who is in good health. It is an upbuilding diet for those who have been suffering with disease and are struggling to get back to normal health as speedily and perfectly as possible."

So are you doing this because you are in poor health or is it a curiosity thing?

Bearing in mind that people everywhere have suggested all kinds of diets/supplements/drugs to people with nothing more than a hunch to back it up. A Yogi I know told me that there lots of people in India who live on chapattis and rice.

During Nazi times in Germany, Jews in the Concentration camps lived on virtually nothing and some actually survived. The odds are the human body is pretty darned resilient and malleable.

I read part of your link. I noticed the following quote which may have dire consequences for certain persons were they to actually believe it:

"I agree with Dr. Richard Cabot who says: “Any one can take milk. If a person tells me, ‘I can not take milk,’ I always say, ‘you can, if you will take it a certain way’.” But the diet must be adjusted to suit the individual condition and requirements. When this is done, one may benefit by the marvelous effects of the milk diet."

This tells me that the author is biased for whatever reason.

I also did not notice any reference to the difference between raw and pasteurized/homogenized milk. I see you are aware but this author is spreading the word that milk (in general) is all the same.

I would not personally follow his advice as he sounds like a milk fundamentalist.

[raw-al]

Here is another quote:

"We frequently give skimmed milk and with better results in many instances than could be secured from whole milk. For skimmed milk has all the nourishing elements of whole milk except that perhaps half the fuel for heat has been removed in the cream. The milk sugar and protein, however, will supply all the heat necessary.

Many people who take up the milk diet for the purpose of putting on weight make the great mistake of attempting to use and excessive amount of cream.
Cream does not tend to increase flesh in the body, although it does conserve or prevent the breaking down of fleshly tissue, or protoplasm, by being more readily available as immediate fuel.

The tissue built up when taking milk is formed almost entirely from the albumin, casein, and lactose or milk sugar. Too much cream or fat in combination with this casein would actually defeat the purpose for which the cream and rich whole milk was intended to be taken."

This is another reductionist guess that the purpose of cream and or fat is to provide fuel. This begs the question "fuel for what?" The author presupposes that heat is produced by fats and nutrition is from the milk solids. He does not know about the body being something like 96% water soluble fats and that the brain is surrounded by a sweet fatty liquid.

So if you live in a hot climate you need no fats.... hmmmmmmmmmm

Like all reductionists and their theories he assumes that the digestive process consists of the intestines breaking down the entire amount of food into a series of purified chemicals which it then sends off to another mythical place in the body where it is all then systematically rearranged into another distinct set of chemicals that are utilized by the body like some kind of Dupont chemical fertilizer operation.

It assumes that the body has no intelligence and that it has no immune system, which can be perverted by long term subjugation to poor diet. It is not possible to convince these clowns of anything different than what they learned in chemistry class.

Het two rants today already!

[raw-al]

I stand corrected. Another quote...

"Unpasteurized milk should be secured if possible. If not, by taking orange, lemon or grapefruit juice along with it, pasteurized milk may be used."

Still Ayurveda says that fruit and milk should not be consumed together. They require different digestive processes. There may be other reasons.

[raw-al]

Yet another quote
"One patient remained on the diet for eighteen months before he was able to digest solid food. His final improvement and gain were all he could have desired. In some cases a few weeks will suffice to restore a person to normal. A Dr. Taylor of Croydon, England, over two hundred years ago, cured himself of epilepsy in two years with the milk diet, and lived on milk exclusively for seventeen years thereafter."

Nuther..
"In one case, quoted by a milk diet specialist, a patient has lived on a strictly milk diet for more than fifty years. He has never been ill a day in all that time, and his bowels have moved with absolute regularity twice a day.

This gentleman, as it happens, was forced by necessity to go on a milk diet, for at the age of two he took a dose of concentrated lye. This caused a stricture of the oesophagus, or food pipe, which has prevented him from swallowing solid food of any kind. The passage was so constricted by the effect of the lye that not even a crumb of bread could pass through it.

Yet this man is rugged, healthy and well nourished, the father of four robust children. All the food he has ever had in these fifty years has been a quart of milk at each meal."

Interesting. I would never have guessed.

[van]

these are all interesting,  but for myself, I know I can believe almost anything If I want to.  If you think about it closely,  seems unlikely that 'he' wouldn't have drunk juices, soup broths, mashed foods etc.    More likely is he did fine living on mostly milk, as I have proved to myself.   There is one thing about milk and it's the imbalance of mg. to ca., which is way out of wack.  Cows and goats way before weaning are consuming lots of green grass (especially if they are born in the spring as most are in nature) and hence ingest an entirely different Ca.  /  Mg. balance as young grasses are full of mg.  Too much calcium especially in relation to mg. I think causes ca. deposits. 

[van]

Even the Masai mixed their collected milk with the animals blood.

[PaleoPhil]

Even the Masai mixed their collected milk with the animals blood.

And the ancient Celts as well, and likely other ancient pastoral peoples. I doubt they did it for no reason at all. Plus, they fermented milk.

Here is another quote:

"We frequently give skimmed milk and with better results in many instances than could be secured from whole milk

The advice of anyone who advocates skimmed milk (which is invariably also pasteurized) goes into the toilet and deserves no further thought, as far as I'm concerned.

[Joy2012]

Many thanks to all who have replied. Your input gives me food for thought.

The author of the milk diet booklet did witness/gather a large number of impressive cases of healing. That is why I am considering doing the milk diet to improve my health. However, he wrote this booklet in 1923. So some of his reasoning could be faulty. That is why I am asking for input. Now I think green juice may be a good supplement while doing this milk diet.

Again, if anyone knows of reasons against raw cheese, please let me know.

[Joy2012]

Here are dozens of modern-day witnesses of the healing power of raw pasture-fed milk:

http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/YOURStory.html

[RawZi]

"Unpasteurized milk should be secured if possible. If not, by taking orange, lemon or grapefruit juice along with it, pasteurized milk may be used."

    Previously I read studies of people back then needing orange juice and cod liver oil maybe to prevent nutritional deficiencies from pasteurizing the milk, I don't remember the details except it was around 1930.

So if you live in a hot climate you need no fats.... hmmmmmmmmmm

    In our raw meat diets we need raw fat.  Some people have reported that when they're on a diet of almost all milk, raw of course, that they feel better after a time on a lower fat milk.

.. did not notice any reference to the difference between raw and pasteurized/homogenized milk. I see you are aware but this author is spreading the word that milk (in general) is all the same.

    Why mention pasteurized milk? I knew people who lived in big cities like Manhattan in 1923 when this book was written, and they couldn't even find pasteurized milk back then, and farms were close by. It was "a different world".  All their milk had cream at the top, but not down in the milk, cows milk of course. People went for milk cures, Amish milk, not to get better from pasteurized milk back then, but to get better from whiskey-mash fed milk.   

However, he wrote this booklet in 1923. So some of his reasoning could be faulty. That is why I am asking for input. Now I think green juice may be a good supplement while doing this milk diet.

Again, if anyone knows of reasons against raw cheese, please let me know.

    I've mentioned my son who is on a milk diet here before. He was eating raw cheese and making yogurt and kefir.  He gave the fermented foods up after about a year.  They disturb his stomach, although not the first year.

    I'm thinking if you eat raw cheese, make sure it has not been heated above 105F in processing. Eat a piece a while before your milk meal, for health.  That is all.  Tell me how it goes.

[Joy2012]

RawZi, will you please direct me to the post where you talked about your son's milk diet? Thanks.

[RawZi]

.. will you please direct me to the post where you talked about your son's milk diet? Thanks.

    Joy, I just made an update on a thread talking about his diet. You'll find it easy to locate.

[Joy2012]

RawZi, I did not succeed in locating that thread. What is the title of the thread? On which Forum? Thanks.

[RawZi]

.. I did not succeed in locating that thread. .

    http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/profile/?area=showposts;u=169

    It's the one in Hot Topics here.

I have been eating a very-high-raw vegen diet for a few years. It did not bring me optimal health. So I have added raw dairy these past couple of months.   

    Welcome to raw animal foods. I've been vegan and raw vegan too, many years vegan. When I wrote "raw" I meant 100%.  I started with dairy also, cheese the last of the dairy I started with. Son after a couple years dairy from vegan has found his stomach can no longer tolerate cheese, yogurt nor kefir.

[Joy2012]

Thanks RawZi.

[RawZi]

    You're welcome Joy.

    I don't know if this could be helpful to you, but I just found this:

In WW2L, AV says, under "INDIGESTION", "Eating a diet of unheated honey with warm or room temperature raw milk for 2-6 weeks quickly aids digestion."

    Is the cheese you're planning to possibly use salted?  What temperatures was it processed at? Where did you find it or do you make it?

[Joy2012]

Thank you RawZi.

I do not have indigestion problem. I want to add raw dairy because I don't feel healthy after having been on a raw vegan diet for a few years. I get my raw pasture-fed dairy from a local farm which I trust. The farmers told me their cheeses are heated between 90 degrees and 117 degrees during cheesemaking process. I like raw cheese very well. So far I do not have any problem eating cheese. My face glows a little bit since I have added raw dairy to my diet.  The cheese is salty. Before I eat the cheese,  I soak sliced cheese in filtered water in the fridge for one day  till almost all the salt is soaked out. (I add the salty soaking water to my herbal teas--which makes the herbal teas delicious; so I guess no nutrients are lost).

I would be very content just eating raw vegan diet with raw cheese. But as I browse this forum, I read so many negative comments  on raw cheeses!  It looks like "raw meat" is considered superior to cheeses. I would never dream of eating raw beef or pork or chicken (I do not even like cooked steaks). But raw fish might be quite OK with me. Is wild-caught raw fish considered a type of "meat"?

[van]

If you are doing well with your raw cheese, maybe you could just see how it goes.  Some of the longest and healthiest peoples in the world lived high in the Swiss mountains and dairy products were their staple, although they also include the meat of the animals they raised.  Do what works for you, but as for most of us here, things change and so must we change with them. 

[TylerDurden]

Raw wildcaught fish is a kind of meat. However, most RVAFers prefer using raw meats/organ-meats from land animals as their staple, since they feel they thrive better on it. If you avoid raw meats, you could at least try raw fish, raw shellfish and raw eggs in quantity.

[Joy2012]

Van, Thank you for telling me that the healthy Swiss  mountains peoples eat much dairy. That gives me peace of mind about eating raw dairy.

Tyler, Thanks for endorsing raw fish (to a degree). I will keep trying to find the kind of raw wild-caught salmon that is as tasty as the kind I ate at restaurants, which I really enjoyed. (Maybe their super fatty salmon was farm-raised!) The “Wild Alaskan Sockeye Salmon fillet”I just purchased is not super tasty. I hope to find the kind of salmon that pleases me better. Maybe in some future time I could enjoy raw beef, etc. Who knows.