teeth decay and dairy

[achillezzz]

that dude in cure teeth decay suggests to the readers to eat alot of grassfed butter to get the fat soluble mienrals to cure teeth and this cold liver oil and this butter oil...

But he says nothing about meat and meat fat??

What if your diet is only grassfed meat primarily lamb/sheep/goat cooked wild fish and eggs? no cheese no milk no dairy at all? will this diet give me you enough Fat soluble minerals to repair teeth??

I mean caveman did it without dairy and his teeth were rock solid... so do we really need dairy? if no where to get those minerals if one is not doing raw paleo weston price but only meat eater?

Because of this dude im now scared that if i dont buy this supplement or eat grassfed raw diary I'm gonna get teeth decay...

What should I do for maximum teeth health?? My left crushing teeth is decaying i see black things on it and it hurts when I chew nuts with it.. what to do please help.. I always thought I would be the last person on the planet to get teeth decay... I eliminated all my carbs now I am eating only meat coconut oil eggs some seafood and  vegetable juies im so scared how do i save my tooth? and also it looks like my jaw is getting smaller im serious I didnt listen to you guys and continued eating grains and lots of honey and fruits now my teeth are getting very close to each other fuckk i am throwing all my carbs at home to the trash can...

[TylerDurden]

It's already been shown via studies that palaeolithic peoples' bones were far, far stronger than those of modern humans, so dairy definitely isn't needed.

[achillezzz]

It's already been shown via studies that palaeolithic peoples' bones were far, far stronger than those of modern humans, so dairy definitely isn't needed.

So what kind of meat would you suggest to eat should I eat sea food? bones? bomb on eggyolks? The only grassfed meat I have at the moment is goats sheeps and lambs the small grazing animals.

Show me the studies please. and what do you eat mainly today tyler?

[PaleoPhil]

....

What should I do for maximum teeth health?? My left crushing teeth is decaying i see black things on it and it hurts when I chew nuts with it.. what to do please help..

Have you seen a dentist to learn what the "black things" are and assess your dental health? Nagel provides links to sites that have lists of holistic dentists: http://www.curetoothdecay.com/Dentistry/find_best_dentist.htm

I didnt listen to you guys and continued eating grains and lots of honey and fruits now my teeth are getting very close to each other fuckk i am throwing all my carbs at home to the trash can...

Throwing away the grains would definitely be a good first step. Wild frugivorous chimps are known to be somewhat prone to cavities whereas tarsiers, a carnivorous primate, are not known to be, nor is another low-sugar primate that eats lots of leaves and cashew pedicels (which contain phenolic compounds that have been found to protect against tooth decay) with limited amounts of fruit, the howler monkey (see Wild Health, by Cindy Engel)--so it probably also does make sense to go easy on fruits and honey or even avoid them completely while your teeth are in need of healing.

BTW, why were you eating grains and in what forms did they take (bread, cereal, pasta, pizza, pastries, ...)? Just curious.

Ramiel Nagel recommends in Cure Tooth Decay to eat grassfed meats and organs, bone marrow and brains so I don't know where you got the idea that he said "nothing about meat and meat fat."

[TylerDurden]

http://www.gponline.com/News/article/586810/Paleolithic-ancestors-had-stronger-bones/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10918987

Any raw animal foods will do as long as they are high quality, such as raw grassfed meats, raw wild game or raw wildcaught seafood.

I eat mostly raw wild game plus some nonorganic raw fruits.

[raw-al]

I eat a lot of dairy since I started on a raw diet.

I also ate a lot of dairy before I went raw (raw vege 23 years)

I had lots of dental problems before going raw, but once I went raw, my teeth problems subsided and have now stopped 100%. I've had umpteen root canals, 2 crowns and I was told that I was headed for major peridontal work. I had to have crowns because there wasn't enough jaw left to have implants. You see I put off going to the dentist despite having dental pain. The dental pain was my jaw rotting.

Rotten or healthy teeth therefore has nothing to do with dairy. People make these guesses based on reductionist thought, which is exactly that... thought. It is not based on any credible "scientific studying".

This reductionist "thought" which is referred to as wild unsubstantiated guesses by some people is the same thought that supposes tofu and other bean based foods are good for your teeth as they are full of calcium.

I now realize that my teeth rot/feel bad when I ;
1. Eat sugar or sweeteners that have been processed in any way shape or form
2. Eat cooked foods.
3. Eat fruit without lots of fats

I know that my teeth feel better when I ;
Eat lots of fats with any fruit and indeed with any food. The fats coat the teeth and protect it from the acids in the fruit.

I have speculations as to why this is true, but the fact remains, the common denominator is that cooking or processing, is one problem, sour fruit without butter or fat of some sort is equally as bad and grains appear to be the rest of the problem.

So therefore the fats in butter or other dairy are excellent but they are certainly not the only source by any stretch.

Obviously the fats in meats and avocado etc fit the bill.

[CitrusHigh]

Achillez I would highly recommend you do what Rami says and get either fermented skate liver oil or Fermented Cod liver oil from the company Green Pastures. I think that someone living as a raw carnivore with already healthy teeth would be fine without the cod liver oil, but if you already have tooth problems it is absolutely imperative that you get the FCLO or FSLO.

For tooth and bone health the most important vitamins are A, D and K2. K2 is the hardest vitamin to get with Vitamin D being the second hardest (if you don't live in  a place with year round sun).

Vitamin A is relatively easy to get in diet if you're eating any amount of liver and/or brightly colored veggies.

Vitamin D helps you absorb calcium/minerals and Vitamin K2 tells your bone cells where to put those minerals to heal and create new bone.

I am successfully re-mineralizing my teeth after 18 years on a SAD diet. But it wasn't until I started taking the FCLO/FSLO that I began to notice a real difference. Now they are remineralizing at an astounding rate! And it would almost surely be faster if I were strict raw, but I eat plenty of cooked foods and a fair amount of sugar (it is my worst vice and I'm constantly working to remove it entirely from my diet).

But I CANNOT stress enough that it must be Green Pasture's Fermented Cod or Skate Liver oil, there is NO other brand on the market that sells a raw, enzyme enhanced product. ALL other cod liver oils to my knowledge are brutally refined with chemicals, heat and light. I believe the K2 content in the oils is due to the fermentation. Plant vitamin-K1 is not the same thing is animal Vitamin-K2. They have entirely different duties in the body. K1 is great, but very easy to get and not crucial to tooth and bone health.

A bottle of the FCLO should last you at least a month. But it is worth every penny even if it was $200/bottle. This is truly a sacred food, and pretty well everyone in the modern world would benefit enormously from taking it.

[achillezzz]

Have you seen a dentist to learn what the "black things" are and assess your dental health?

BTW, why were you eating grains and in what forms did they take (bread, cereal, pasta, pizza, pastries, ...)? Just curious.

I think I will go to the dentist to find out what it is.. not that he can help me...
I ate oats for breakfast with shitload of honey post workout... my teeth health were very good all my life I have only 1 cavity in my mouth and nothing more than that..

I am engaged in alll sorts of intense physical activities and never thought that those carbs would make me problems i'm currently experiencing.
I've been always told that my teeth are looking very good when i didn't brush them for years...
Me and my younger brother we have rather wide jaws from birth and strong white teeth.
I am actually shocked to discover that I am just a mortal..

[achillezzz]

Achillez I would highly recommend you do what Rami says and get either fermented skate liver oil or Fermented Cod liver oil from the company Green Pastures. I think that someone living as a raw carnivore with already healthy teeth would be fine without the cod liver oil, but if you already have tooth problems it is absolutely imperative that you get the FCLO or FSLO.

For tooth and bone health the most important vitamins are A, D and K2. K2 is the hardest vitamin to get with Vitamin D being the second hardest (if you don't live in  a place with year round sun).

Vitamin A is relatively easy to get in diet if you're eating any amount of liver and/or brightly colored veggies.

Vitamin D helps you absorb calcium/minerals and Vitamin K2 tells your bone cells where to put those minerals to heal and create new bone.

I am successfully re-mineralizing my teeth after 18 years on a SAD diet. But it wasn't until I started taking the FCLO/FSLO that I began to notice a real difference. Now they are remineralizing at an astounding rate! And it would almost surely be faster if I were strict raw, but I eat plenty of cooked foods and a fair amount of sugar (it is my worst vice and I'm constantly working to remove it entirely from my diet).

But I CANNOT stress enough that it must be Green Pasture's Fermented Cod or Skate Liver oil, there is NO other brand on the market that sells a raw, enzyme enhanced product. ALL other cod liver oils to my knowledge are brutally refined with chemicals, heat and light. I believe the K2 content in the oils is due to the fermentation. Plant vitamin-K1 is not the same thing is animal Vitamin-K2. They have entirely different duties in the body. K1 is great, but very easy to get and not crucial to tooth and bone health.

A bottle of the FCLO should last you at least a month. But it is worth every penny even if it was $200/bottle. This is truly a sacred food, and pretty well everyone in the modern world would benefit enormously from taking it.

I will get them but what about butter oil or the blend with FCLO should I get it too?
Or just FCLO AND FSLO?  What dosage would you suggest? any other books with information on teeth health and the best diet for it or raw carnivore is the best? should I add bone meal to my diet?

[CitrusHigh]

If you are worried about calcium content of your diet you could add a little egg shell if you eat eggs.

Egg shell will dissolve quickly in lemon, lime juice, or vinegar. Or you can simply eat them as is. When I first started eating raw 4 years ago I would blend some egg shell in to my raw egg smoothies because I wanted the calcium and I liked the texture. But later I began eating straight egg shell when I got used to and began to enjoy the crackle of chewing on them. Your body's juices will melt the egg shell like nothing too. And this easily absorbable calcium should be fine for your body if you have plenty of K2 to tell the calcium where to go so it doesn't collect in your tissue and veins. You could add bone meal but I would think egg shells would be easier to implement, I mean you no doubt have them as a waste product right now anyway.

I have never tried the butter oil, my girlfriend just ordered a bottle of the blend so I'll let you know how that goes. The thing about the butter oil is that I don't know if it's processed raw or if it is a heat process. If heat processed I would avoid it and stick with the pure FSLO  OR   FCLO.

You might also rethink your consumption of honey. It seems to be a really great food for some, but for others it seems to be just glorified sugar. Maybe try fermenting the honey like paleophil does?

For books, you might enjoy the very nutrient dense book I'm currently (very slowly!) reading called "Vitamins: Their Role In the Human Body"

I pirated this book off of demonoid.com, downloaded via utorrent. Otherwise I'm sure it's available for purchase out there. It is a fascinating book and I've learned a lot from it. Obviously it is a mainstream medical text, so you have to use your RAF filter when reading it, but for the factual, non-speculative aspects it is a wealth of info. Not specifically on teeth but that aspect is covered under the relevant topics.

EDIT: I just looked over the butter oil section of the GP website and they say they do not use heat in the process. This makes sense since they are aware of the benefits of not heating their other products, but if I were going to order the butter oil myself, I would contact GP and make sure that the source material that they're using never conacts any chemicals or heat above 100F. Also it should be mentioned that the reason the butter oil is prized is specifically for its K2 content, that IS what makes it the x-factor. And this same K2 is in the FCLO and the FSLO, hence the reason I'm taking it (also for the vitamin D, but while I could find food sources of vitamin D, vitamin K2 from food is EXCEEDINGLY difficult to find)

[CitrusHigh]

Oh and for dosage, I would take at least the recommended dose listed on the bottle, or more. I would say you could start off by doubling or tripling that dose once per day for a couple weeks/months. Then when you feel like you have a good foundation of those vitamins, you could back off to whatever you feel like as a maintenance dose. I take a swig each day, usually around the dose listed, but then once a week I will take a mega dose. I do not measure my doses though, I simply estimate about a half teaspoon each day, but lots more on megadose days.

[PaleoPhil]

I think I will go to the dentist to find out what it is.. not that he can help me...

I know he can't help you much, though you can get a thorough cleaning and assessment and it's useful to find out what you're dealing with and how strict you'll need to be. My holistic dentist didn't stop at cleanings, but actually recommended a sulfur-rich foodlement, which does seem to help a little bit on top of raw Paleo.

I ate oats for breakfast with shitload of honey post workout... my teeth health were very good all my life I have only 1 cavity in my mouth and nothing more than that..

OK, so it sounds like you've identified the main part of the problem, now on to discovering the solution, finding what works for you. Ramiel Nagel's advice is actually generally good, I find, and he is very helpful in answering people's specific questions. Did you actually read his book?

Getting rid of the oats sounds like the most important step at the moment, especially if they are not raw fermented oats of ancient species. What honey have you been eating? I know Aajonus and some folks here have posted about honey being no problem whatsoever in any quantity as long as it's raw, but that hasn't been my experience, and it sounds like it's not yours either. Also, if wild chimps can get caries from eating lots of wild fruits, there's no reason to think that humans can't possibly get caries from eating unlimited domesticated fruits.

I am actually shocked to discover that I am just a mortal..

Everyone is.

[RawZi]

Ramiel Nagel recommends in Cure Tooth Decay to eat grassfed meats and organs, bone marrow and brains so I don't know where you got the idea that he said "nothing about meat and meat fat."

    Bovine marrow and brain are both mostly all fat. Organs have nutrients and constituents including fat soluble vitamins (not oil soluble) that are important to bone and tooth health, and vice versa, of course I mean all grass fed and raw.

    In the raw foods I feel very possibly and likely raw animal parts are better for the teeth than raw dairy.

    Could you make your own bone meal by taking the bones from your meat and file it with a farriers implement?

[PaleoPhil]

In the raw foods I feel very possibly and likely raw animal parts are better for the teeth than raw dairy.

Yup, the problem with it is that most Americans don't want to eat raw land mammal meat, organs, marrow or brains, but many will eat raw dairy foods or raw fish, thus raw dairy and fish are more popular and we see Aajonus, Mercola, Sisson, WAPF, Price-Pottenger Foundation, Chris Masterjohn and others advocating raw dairy, but not many gurus or organizations advocating raw organs or brains, and if they do they tend to emphasize raw dairy more. For example, Aajonus talks about raw organs and raw animal body fats, but he talks way more about raw dairy.

[RawZi]

    I guess he tries.  I was listening for an interview of him a few years ago.  A young man was interviewed and I remember hearing him say he drank organ smoothies that aajonus recommended and it helped him a lot.

    So much is so toxic these days, and so much knowledge has been lost.  Organs are very likely to have gathered more toxins and we don't know how to prepare them raw now, like fermenting urea into ammonia. I guess the dairy just catches on faster.  The organs have the best vital nutrients though, I hope more people learn more soon.

    There are organ smoothie recipes in his book.

[PaleoPhil]

Most people who won't eat organs tell me they are disgusted by them and don't like the taste, texture or even thought of eating them, and many refuse to even try them in any form, whereas most people already eat dairy products, so switching to tastier raw dairy is actually seen as a plus by the adventurous folk who aren't worried by potential pathogens.

[achillezzz]

I just checked the green pastures website to order some COD LIVER OIL

Now I see all kind of types. some are from wild caught  fish some are not and there is some Emulsified Cod Liver Oil.

What Is Emulsified Cod Liver Oil?
Which one should I order for best teeth healing?

[CitrusHigh]

Here is their purity statement, and I have never heard of them selling products from farmed fish, I could not recommend them if they were...

"Our Guarantee

    The fish used in our Fermented Cod Liver oil and Skate Liver oil are exclusively wild caught in and around the Arctic region. A substantial amount of today's cod liver oil is produced from farmed fish.
    Green Pastures is committed to providing our community with nothing but pure, unadulterated, non-industrialized fermented fish liver oils using traditional or sacred production methods that have been in use for thousands of years.
    We guarantee we will not compromise our products' nutrient quality and integrity by any industrial means that will damage or remove flavors, odors, colors, textures and/or nutrients.
    We exclusively use third party testing for our products."

When I get the FCLO, I just get the flavor and anti-oxidant FREE, liquid.

When I get the FSLO, I get the only liquid they offer which is spiked with orange and lemon essential oils I do believe. Since those oils are more or less natural and comprise a very small % of the overall content I don't fuss about it.

The emulsified stuff is blended with some additives, supposedly natural, which causes everything to be even, without anything settling out of it. I would stay away from such products, it is the most processed product they have aside from the butter oil.

[achillezzz]

Thanks fam

[achillezzz]

Just ordered some FCLO.. When it comes I go back to one meal a day all meat I ditch all the carbs and drink the FCLO straight from the bottle 2 times a day I'll try to not drink alot to not get too much to not become toxic fom overdosing.. I am also limitih all my exercis to once a week very hard high intensity workout till I puke and ly on th floor crippling to stimulate hardcore hormonal response to maximize teeth remineralization..

[achillezzz]

I just looked over the butter oil section of the GP website and they say they do not use heat in the process. This makes sense since they are aware of the benefits of not heating their other products, but if I were going to order the butter oil myself, I would contact GP and make sure that the source material that they're using never conacts any chemicals or heat above 100F. Also it should be mentioned that the reason the butter oil is prized is specifically for its K2 content, that IS what makes it the x-factor. And this same K2 is in the FCLO and the FSLO, hence the reason I'm taking it (also for the vitamin D, but while I could find food sources of vitamin D, vitamin K2 from food is EXCEEDINGLY difficult to find)

I am just curious which one of the three (FCLO, FSLO , BUTTER OIL) have the most nutrients for super fast teeth healing??

Or each one is unique on its own way? whats the difference in ADEK ratio between all those?
And how much I can overdose on COD LIVER OIL and not get poisoned from it? I am plannng on some serious overdosing because I believe in overdosing for drastic changes at start of anything.

And just to make sure I understand it right is Vitamin K2 is the unknown "X-Factor" ??

[PaleoPhil]

And just to make sure I understand it right is Vitamin K2 is the unknown "X-Factor" ??

Yes, specifically, the mk-4 (animal) version of K2.

[achillezzz]

When did this got discovered? I guess after Weston price published his book nutrition and physical degeneration? Because if it was known back then he would just call it vitamin K2?

[PaleoPhil]

Correct.

[CitrusHigh]

Yes, specifically, the mk-4 (animal) version of K2.

Perhaps, but mk-7 is shown to be highly effective also...apparently. I supplemented with natto mk-7 for a while before I understood fully the nature of commercially processed supplements. Don't know what effects it had, it was the jarrow Mk-7 from natto. Now I rely on the FSLO/FCLO to get my k2 along with pastured foods.

http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2