Germ theory information

[Aaaaaa]

Hi everyone!
I am looking for information on the germ theory of disease; basically why it isn't true and what the alternative explanation is.  I have read what AV says about it, and I feel like his theory might be right, but he maybe has the explanation kind of wrong (like about how eating cooked vegetables can "cause" a disease instead of bacteria etc).  The virus = solvents, and bacteria & parasites = janitors, and "healing crisis" theories do make sense, but I'd like to find a more in depth, scientific explanation for them.
Your own words, links to articles, blogs etc...are all welcome!!
I did a search here and found some stuff, but nothing that definitively answered my question.

[TylerDurden]

Read up everything you can online about the "Hygiene Hypothesis". I am sceptical of Aajonus' claims too, but the hygiene hypothesis already has many, many studies supporting it. Look in pubmed website etc. for studies favouring the hygiene hypothesis.

[cherimoya_kid]

I think the hygiene hypothesis has a lot of good science behind it.  It's not the only factor, though.  Even a very healthy animal/person can be taken down by an extremely virulent pathogen.  Inborn immunity, or partial immunity, also plays a role.

[Aaaaaa]

YES!  That is exactly what I was thinking!  The hygiene hypothesis makes a lot of sense.  However, I agree that its probably not so simple that it can by explained by one theory only.  I think they probably all have their true points.

How do you feel about this regarding eating raw animal products?  My understanding is that the pathogens that we would consume by doing this would most likely be ones that we evolved symbiotically with and therefore if your body is healthy and you are eating the right foods to heal/rebuild after your healing crisis caused by the bacteria/parasite/etc that they are essentially a neutral to good thing.

[RawZi]

    Having a strong immune system can be dangerous, look what happened in the flu epidemic of 1918.  My own immune system was functioning but making problems for me. Raw animal foods, even without any bacteria, help that. It gives me the nutrients I need so my immune system is more aware but not going nuts. With bacteria, like in highmeats?  Wow, that's a horse of a different color.  Seems it gives me the right bacteria to take over from other bacteria I might have.

[goodsamaritan]

In my experience:

- there are times when the hygiene theory is spot on

- there are times when germ theory is spot on

I observe and arm myself on all fronts. 

[Adora]

I just read AV theory and I was optimistic when I became very sick just for the first time in a long time, just after reading it. It all seemed so meant to be, but then I was eatting honey and my BS spent a week in the 500's and I felt terrible. I was taking a ton of insulin even after I was not sick. I still don't feel good, even a month later. I'm really tired and I mostly want to relax,  walk, and sleep. I did get a small period (sorry, but it's for science), and I haven't had that in 4 months. I'm hoping something good is going on below the surface. I'm thinking b/c I have diabetes any fluctuation is bad. I hoped that a friendly germ might help the autoimmune issue, but I'm not seeing any evidence of that yet.
     I've had my amino acid level checked 3 times over the years and every time it has been very low across the board. AV says he had people with low AA levels eat high berries. I have berries and they've been in my fridge over a month. He reported that after eating them all of the participants were very tired for months, but that when they felt good again they rechecked their labs and aa levels were good. I was wondering if I'm tired b/c something really great is happening, but I want to cry writing it b/c I doubt it.
    I'm also afraid to try the fruit, b/c I don't really want to be any more tired.
     I am still reading about Wim Hoff the "iceman" who can make his own heat. Not the same method as the Tibeten's but similar. I like his book, he is inspiring. He has had tests to show that his immune system is stronger after cold exposure. He has a whole method and the book is on Kindle for $10. I'm trying it slowly, and it is promising. In addition to my RAF only diet.

[CitrusHigh]

Hey Adora, it is definitely a process, it will take some time. Most of us have a lot of toxic accumulation from years of 'civilized' living. When all of that starts getting flushed and pulled and tugged out of the body it's not always a painless process. But the rewards are worth it. Just stay away from the honey for now. Perhaps down the road you can try more. It isn't necessary for healing, so stick with what is, raw fats, green juices/colorful non-root veggies, and your body will respond!

[Aaaaaa]

I agree with Citrus, Adora.  I do hope you start feeling better soon!  I wonder if maybe the illness activated your immune system, and the tiredness is the side effects of your body detoxing/healing.  I'm sure that sort of thing takes up a LOT of energy, and I believe a lot of healing takes place when one is sleeping.
I also remember reading that bit about "high berries"...its so tough to know if something is helpful, especially when its something like that, that is kind of unproven and could take months and months...:-S
I also have autoimmune problems (MS) and am having random symptoms since starting raw paleo (tingling in my feet when I look down), but otherwise feeling great!  So I'm just going to keep eating healing foods, and try and do better with my sleeping and stress-levels. 

[Inger]

Oh Adora,
me too hopes you feel better soon!!!
I dunno what to suggest cause I have no experiences with diabetes..
I just know when I eat too much protein like 200 grams / day, I do not feel good.
Have you checked out how much you get? I ususally eat about 120 g/day and that feels good. Some days less or more.
I know our liver converts excess protein to glucose so you might be careful when you have BS-issues..
I guess the advices already given are great BTW.

Inger

[goodsamaritan]

I just read AV theory and I was optimistic when I became very sick just for the first time in a long time, just after reading it. It all seemed so meant to be, but then I was eatting honey and my BS spent a week in the 500's and I felt terrible.

Some people lack some vegetable nutrition when they have diabetes / high blood sugar issues. 

Have you tried eating 1/4 of a raw bitter melon every day for 1 to 2 weeks? 

Type 2 Diabetes Cure: Eat Raw Bitter Melon Fruit Every Day

and

Curing Type-2 Diabetes by Juicing Bitter Melon.

[cherimoya_kid]

I've read celery is good for diabetes too.  Also, the white rind of watermelon is good as well.

[Adora]

Thanks for the support.
I am feeling better, still really tiered, but my BS's are much better.  Inger, I have been wondering how much meet to eat when I first went to raf I ate about 2-3 large mugs full of various meat/ day. Now I don't eat 1 large mug/ day. I have a scale so, I'm going to keep it under 200g and see how I feel.
I eat a ton of veggies. I will try bitter melon, and I love celery, and I like watermelon rind. Thank you

[van]

Adora I would really encourage you to go to  Dr.  Ron Rosedales's  web site and learn all you can from him.  I don't think there's another with his experience on diabetes.   good luck

[Aaaaaa]

I have been listening to an interview with Aajonus about the swine flu, and now I'm sort of confused about what his theory on bacteria and parasites and viruses (or maybe I'm just tired LOL...), but I was wondering if someone here could reccomend any articles or videos?  Or if someone could explain it here in simple terms? 
Basically what I am hearing is that he says viruses are solvents, which are made by cells to detox when bacteria aren't enough.  Are bacteria also made by cells?  I didn't think so...?  What about gut flora bacteria?
I read somewhere that Aajonus goes with Beauchamp's theory VS Pasteur's theory? 

[CitrusHigh]

Hi Sile,

I'll have to thank you for spurring me to do a little more research based on your questions. They brought me to this web site which is promising...

http://www.fearoftheinvisible.com/the-introduction-to-book

I ran in to Aajonus' theory via Karl Loren's website via research on raw milk and raw foods. I wasn't raw at that point other than hunting some raw milk to address my then health issues. After initially dismissing the idea of consuming raw meat I returned to it a short while later and it made so much sense (actually raw foods over all, not just raw meat) that I pretty well dove right in without much more thought about whether it was right or not. It just made sense through and through. So I came to raw meat without really the aid of a guide or of knowing anyone else on the planet who was eating this way. Only quite a while later did I purchase Aajonus' second book and am only just reading his first. As such I came at it from the angle of common sense, not science. We are the only animals who cook their foods and we are, with the exception of our domestic animals and animals living on the fringes of human civilization, along with a few other exceptions, the only one's who experience disease on such a massive scale.

While I have now caught up in terms of the why's and how's of raw foods, especially raw meats, I still don't know exactly how germ theory fits in. Or what is true or false in regards to mainstream views of 'pathogens' or Aajonus' view or anyone elses.

I have learned that almost everything I thought was rock solid as an adolescent has turned out to be either wholly untrue or effectively untrue, but either way, the world is nothing like my parents, any of my elders or the mainstream has led me to believe.

Anyway, while I do not question that raw foods are the healthiest, we have a long way to go in understanding the mechanics. I do not think we 'need' to understand the mechanics to know that raw foods, whether vegetable or animal in nature are nurturing and lifegiving, but it does help to understand the how's in broader terms of understanding the way the world works. It also helps us to convey our stance to others.

So thanks for the push!

[Aaaaaa]

Wow, Citrus--thank YOU!  That website is super interesting.  I'm going to be reading articles there for quite awhile!
As far as my knowladge goes right now, it seems to me that the germ therory of disease AND the detoxification theory are both right in some ways.  I now know for sure that it is more than just "'bad'germ-->infects person = disease", that we are all led to believe.  It definetly has something to do with the environment that the person is in AND the enviromment inside the person.  It is amazing how many things that we take as "givens" turn out to be totally wrong!!  On that first page, it mentions how because science is SO specialized these days, that scientists are heavily relying on their predesessors to be right, since it would take forever to reproduce all previous experiments etc.  So if something isn't right, but gets assumed as being correct, and then all future studies are based on the assumption its correct, that can cause a huge problem!  Just look at the whole low-fat catastrophe!! :-S
I'm will be reading more on that website you posted, and reporting back! :-)

[RawZi]

I've read celery is good for diabetes too. 

    I've heard it lowers the blood glucose levels and lowers the blood pressure in hypertensive people.

I ran in to Aajonus' theory via Karl Loren's website via research on raw milk and raw foods. I wasn't raw at that point other than hunting some raw milk to address my then health issues.

    I ran into Karl's site years before I heard of Aajonus.  I was still vegan and looking for supplements.  We wound up visiting with him and his family, sharing 'hits' of germanium.  Later when I was reading up about aajonus seeing if there was any truth in the primal diet I found what Karl wrote about trying the diet on his Vibrant Life site.  He was using lots of raw butter, raw eggs and raw chop meat, but was having a hard time getting raw milk from what I recall in the writing.

    The terrain being important rather than the bacteria, raw food is important IMO because it still has its integrity, not because it has germs.  Germs are just a bonus, if it has even enough to notice.

[Aaaaaa]

I also ran across this interesting blog post, in one of the reviews for the book "Fear of the Invisible" (which I just bought...sounds facinating!  It sounds like the "good calories bad calories" of virology LOL)

http://exlibhollywood.blogspot.com/2008/07/gallos-egg.html

I haven't read through it all yet, but what I've read so far is very informative and seems very well researched.

[Dorothy]

This is a long post for Adora regarding diabetes and detoxes:

Adora - I have experience helping other with diabetes. I learned because when my mother who had diabetes for close to 40 years needed to come live with me I told her that I would take total care of her as long as she was willing to eat what I give her and not complain - because I couldn't take care of an obese, blind person with no legs - because that's where things were heading. Within 3 months (and we did things slowly on purpose) she was no longer on meds and her blood sugars stayed stable from then on. The same strategy has worked for others on insulin too (learning what I did for Mom). You have type one which is more difficult - but not impossible. You must take into consideration not only the sugar aspects but the auto-immune aspects.

I'm going to say something that might be really unpopular but I'm going to say it anyway for your sake. A diabetic eating something that causes their blood sugars to stay maintained in the 500's is not suffering from a detox - but was doing themself real harm and is dealing with the repercussions. That level of BS causes massive strain and it might take you a good long while to get over it. 500 is an outrageously high bs level. Remember how I told you that honey was the one thing that even quite a decade after solid blood sugars could make my mother's blood sugars go through the roof and cause her real harm - more than processed sugar? She could eat all the fruit she wanted - but honey - very dangerous for her. Please, stop eating honey!!!

Detoxes are shorter lived and milder. The big problem that I have seen with people trying new diets over the 3 decades I've been into this stuff is that just about anything can be discounted as a "detox". Don't fall into that trap. A sniffly nose, some zits, smelly armpits or bad breath, a tiny bit more tired -- for a couple of days -- could be a detox -- but months of deteriorating vitality when tackling such a disease as type 1 diabetes to be dismissed as a detox could be really dangerous. Take what is happening to you seriously!

Just because someone wrote a book doesn't mean they have all the answers or that if your body reacts badly you should continue to believe them in spite of it. With all the conflicting gurus you have to follow what your body tells you is having a good effect or not - not the guru hundreds of miles away that has never met you. You have to follow your own body, your own knowing and your own intuition! You know that it wasn't a detox.

The trick to healing diabetes is to keep your blood sugars stable long enough for your pancreas to get enough of a rest to heal. Whether it takes insulin, meds or diet - you MUST get your blood sugars back in line and keep them there long enough to let your entire body heal up from the honey and prolonged high sugars.

You do NOT have to eat fermented berries to heal yourself if they do not appeal to you. Actually, at this point, I wouldn't take such chances if I were you. You need to get back to the basics.

What are the basics with diabetes? Stability of blood sugar levels! Do that, no matter what it takes. In terms of diet it for those I helped it took equal parts meat/protein, fat and vegetable matter - slow releasing sugar into the system with NO spikes. This will give you the carbohydrates to keep your brain functioning without putting extra stress on your system to convert the protein or fats, the fat to give long stabilization of the blood sugars and the proteins to rebuild yourself and also helps to maintain blood sugars. If you do this raw - you will take more stress off your pancreas and liver still. No fruit. No honey. Too sweet -- Too much sugar! Period. Once you heal you might be able to incorporate non-sweet fruit again - but remember - you are type 1. Getting your blood sugars stable is step one. Healing your immune system is step two. You can't heal until your blood sugars are stable.

If I were in your shoes I would not eat honey or fruit. I would eat equal parts meat/organs and fat and vegetables and I would not juice because the sugars go in too fast that way. If I felt worse from anything - I would change it... including what I am telling you here! If eating a third part of say fat doesn't make you feel good - change it.  Trust yourself.

When healing diabetes you should feel better and better and better over time. Never worse. Don't believe the detox excuses - it's just way too dangerous for you. You can't take such chances when you have such a dangerous disease. If your blood sugars went a little bit higher you could have ended up in a coma.

Ok - that's the end of my little tirade/lecture for Adora.

[goodsamaritan]

This is a long post for Adora regarding diabetes and detoxes:

Adora - I have experience helping other with diabetes. I learned because when my mother who had diabetes for close to 40 years needed to come live with me I told her that I would take total care of her as long as she was willing to eat what I give her and not complain - because I couldn't take care of an obese, blind person with no legs - because that's where things were heading. Within 3 months (and we did things slowly on purpose) she was no longer on meds and her blood sugars stayed stable from then on. The same strategy has worked for others on insulin too (learning what I did for Mom). You have type one which is more difficult - but not impossible. You must take into consideration not only the sugar aspects but the auto-immune aspects.

I'm going to say something that might be really unpopular but I'm going to say it anyway for your sake. A diabetic eating something that causes their blood sugars to stay maintained in the 500's is not suffering from a detox - but was doing themself real harm and is dealing with the repercussions. That level of BS causes massive strain and it might take you a good long while to get over it. 500 is an outrageously high bs level. Remember how I told you that honey was the one thing that even quite a decade after solid blood sugars could make my mother's blood sugars go through the roof and cause her real harm - more than processed sugar? She could eat all the fruit she wanted - but honey - very dangerous for her. Please, stop eating honey!!!

Detoxes are shorter lived and milder. The big problem that I have seen with people trying new diets over the 3 decades I've been into this stuff is that just about anything can be discounted as a "detox". Don't fall into that trap. A sniffly nose, some zits, smelly armpits or bad breath, a tiny bit more tired -- for a couple of days -- could be a detox -- but months of deteriorating vitality when tackling such a disease as type 1 diabetes to be dismissed as a detox could be really dangerous. Take what is happening to you seriously!

Just because someone wrote a book doesn't mean they have all the answers or that if your body reacts badly you should continue to believe them in spite of it. With all the conflicting gurus you have to follow what your body tells you is having a good effect or not - not the guru hundreds of miles away that has never met you. You have to follow your own body, your own knowing and your own intuition! You know that it wasn't a detox.

The trick to healing diabetes is to keep your blood sugars stable long enough for your pancreas to get enough of a rest to heal. Whether it takes insulin, meds or diet - you MUST get your blood sugars back in line and keep them there long enough to let your entire body heal up from the honey and prolonged high sugars.

You do NOT have to eat fermented berries to heal yourself if they do not appeal to you. Actually, at this point, I wouldn't take such chances if I were you. You need to get back to the basics.

What are the basics with diabetes? Stability of blood sugar levels! Do that, no matter what it takes. In terms of diet it for those I helped it took equal parts meat/protein, fat and vegetable matter - slow releasing sugar into the system with NO spikes. This will give you the carbohydrates to keep your brain functioning without putting extra stress on your system to convert the protein or fats, the fat to give long stabilization of the blood sugars and the proteins to rebuild yourself and also helps to maintain blood sugars. If you do this raw - you will take more stress off your pancreas and liver still. No fruit. No honey. Too sweet -- Too much sugar! Period. Once you heal you might be able to incorporate non-sweet fruit again - but remember - you are type 1. Getting your blood sugars stable is step one. Healing your immune system is step two. You can't heal until your blood sugars are stable.

If I were in your shoes I would not eat honey or fruit. I would eat equal parts meat/organs and fat and vegetables and I would not juice because the sugars go in too fast that way. If I felt worse from anything - I would change it... including what I am telling you here! If eating a third part of say fat doesn't make you feel good - change it.  Trust yourself.

When healing diabetes you should feel better and better and better over time. Never worse. Don't believe the detox excuses - it's just way too dangerous for you. You can't take such chances when you have such a dangerous disease. If your blood sugars went a little bit higher you could have ended up in a coma.

Ok - that's the end of my little tirade/lecture for Adora.

Super awesome advice, Dorothy!

Can I feature your post in my blog at www.curemanual.com ?

How about the credits?  Your real name, or the username here?

[van]

Well said Dorothy, that was giving of you to put it all into words for her. 

[Dorothy]

Ah GS. You don't know how lucky you are to be living where you are! In the US it is illegal for me to call myself a healer and give out advice. Giving out medical advice without a medical license is a big no no. I never got any degrees (kept on studying just up to that point without taking the degrees) because with degrees comes even more danger.

You are welcome to copy anything I write, but please always put in a tag line that says I'm just speaking of my own experience and that I am not a health care professional and that everyone should consult their own health care professional. That's what everyone in this silly country has to say before they say just about anything. Please do not use my full name for the same reason.

Medical doctors that know how to help people in this country are not allowed to. They cannot even say that they are naturopathic doctors or that they prescribe homeopathic medicine. If they advertise as holistic, naturopathic or homeopathic they will lose their license to practice medicine. If a doctor were to tell someone how to easily cure cancer that wasn't the standard medical slice and burn their entire practice and their life savings could be taken from them. No one is allowed to say that they have a cure for cancer without being attacked with gigantic force. If you put yourself in the position of trying to disseminate that information in this country - those that make massive fortunes off of the cancer industry will hit you with everything they've got.

In this country it is illegal to put your hands on another person to heal them. You first have to get a license to practice something like massage therapy. If you want to practice homeopathy you have to get a degree in acupuncture - but if you step a little bit out of line you can lose that license. You can never say that anything cures cancer or diabetes or you are in serious trouble. You can say that this person experienced remission or that person has their diabetes "under control with diet" - never the word cure. Any company that says an herb or supplement or holistic procedure cures anything - gets closed down. If you are caught prescribing anything to anyone that actually works whether you have a license and degree or not - most of the time you are breaking the law.  It's actually illegal to even give someone dietary advice.

So please do spread the word from the safety of your more sane country. Tell everyone that cancer is not something to be terrified of, that diabetes responds to diet very well. Here in the United States the first cause of death is cancer - which is preventable and treatable. Tell people that radiation and chemo DO NOT prolong life expectancy, but if avoided there are many other things that DO. Half of all men and a third of all women will have to face it and just about everyone will have to face it when a loved one gets it. The second cause of death is heart disease. Let everyone know that getting rid of bad fats and eating good fats cures that. Then there will be so many fewer people to suffer from the third cause of death, medical mistakes. Because GS - I'm not allowed to. I am not saying any of those things, because I am not a doctor, and if I were a doctor, I would have my license revoked. So it's up to you!

[Adora]

Hi Dorothy -
     I just saw your post. Thanks, it was good to hear, I love your straight talk. I have not eaten any honey and my blood sugars are much better, and I'm back to my original basal rate of 0.6units/hr. I don't think I ever want put myself through eating honey again. I'm a true carb addict though and so, I have less anxiety to just say not for now. I knew everthing you were saying in the back of my mind, but it can be so confusing in the midst of it. I am still tiered a lot, but so is my daughter, so we just go to bed 8-9pm and sleep 8-12 hrs. The thing is we are never done. I don't know why she is still so tired, she eats paleo, but she cheats not like other kids. Still, we need more sleep so we just sleep. I'm not going to do the fermented fruit based on your advise and I just don't feel like taking any more big diet risks now. I do eat 1/2 - 2 pieces of fruit each day, it helps keep me more stable. Most days it is just 1/2. I spill ketones like crazy with out any fruit. I am trying to wean off it, but my work and home are filled with chocolate and baked goods, which I never touch, but when I'm really tempted I have a small piece of fruit and I feel metally better.
     

[Dorothy]

Hi Adora,

I know, when you are in the throws of things and you are sick and it's YOU that it's happening to, it can be intense. I'm glad that you were ok with my straight talk.

The fact that you can avoid all the temptations around you is a great thing. Fruit of course is usually dramatically better than processed sugar. And, there are high sugar fruits and lower sugar fruits too. Having a bowl of berries is going to be quite different than having a bowl of mangoes and dates. Do you check your blood sugars after the fruit? Are they stable? That's how you know of course. The whole goal is to keep your blood sugars stable in the proper range without medication. If you don't have to take insulin after eating certain fruits - then it's an indicator that those foods do not necessarily have to be completely forbidden. But if you eat the fruit and an hour later your blood sugars are through the roof - well - you need even more will power to avoid all the chocolate and the honey AND the fruits - because you have avoid anything that spikes your blood sugars if you want to heal.

If you have to - post a picture of a person with amputated legs on your refrigerator. I know - gross - but the damn doctors don't tell people that diabetes is controllable with diet (which is proven and accepted) because they assume diabetics won't follow the advice. But...... they also don't tell diabetics what is going to happen to them if they don't control their diabetes with diet. With medication horrors eventually happen and with proper diet - they don't - even if the blood sugars are maintained equally both ways. If the doctors had the strength to scare their patients enough by telling them the truth of what happens over time, then their patients might find the strength to stick to their diets. The skin looking horrible, going blind, having legs chopped off, being in extreme pain from neuropathy, not having any energy, having your heart disease and all the pain and trials of that, organ failures  .......... these are all the things that you Adora are going to AVOID in your future because you are willing to avoid the carbs now. What you are doing for yourself and your daughter is monumental. There is no greater gift you can give to your daughter than to heal yourself. Nothing.

It makes sense that you are tired after such high blood sugars. Make sure you drink enough water. That's particularly important for diabetics. And - keep on testing your blood sugars. Don't go into denial. Make sure you know how every food affects your blood sugar. If something makes your blood sugar spike post a picture of that food right next to someone without legs. Avoiding that food means avoiding that horror. You need to make sure you don't close your eyes even though it's so overwhelming. Never allow your blood sugars to get so high again and do whatever you have to to keep them in the proper range. This is going to be the battle of a lifetime but you can do it. Stay aware even though you are so tired. You are fighting against carbs for your life.