Apology re Weston-Price

[TylerDurden]

I have often quoted a quackwatch article on Weston-Price as I found the latter's Noble Savage theory-oriented ideas too dodgy. I have now read an article which debunks 2 of Quackwatch's points against Weston-Price, so I accept that that article had its faults:-

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Weston_Price

[PaleoPhil]

That's commendable of you.

[cherimoya_kid]

Stephen Barrett is a joke. You want to steer very clear of associating yourself with anything he writes, Tyler.  He has been thoroughly proven to be biased, without the slightest interest in fact or truth. He's a joke.

It's important to appear fair and impartial, both for your own credibility and that of the raw paleo movement.

[TylerDurden]

Well, the trouble is that the RVAF diet community is too dominated by New-Age, Noble-Savage-theory-like ideas. Most people thinking of starting a  RVAF  diet are not too impressed at the notion that  some tribe, conveniently located far away in terms of space and time, is supposedly super-healthy based on a few biased reports, and that therefore we should adopt their pro-raw-food-oriented ideas but not their pro-cooked ones.

While Barrett is at the opposite extreme, sticking strictly to mainstream notions, he does help eliminate some of the excesses of the other, more dominant  New-Age-like extreme. Plus, I have found that a more science-based approach works in terms of convincing newbies and SAD-eaters. For example, the raw foodism wikipedia page was, for years, totally dominated by pro-cooked-diet propaganda. Why? Because the pro-raw-food-advocates mostly didn't bother to cite any scientific studies for the most part, just stating that raw food was healthier without proof, whereas the pro-cooked diet crowd would very occasionally cite one study per one or two paragraphs, thus giving them the edge. Once I started citing endless study after study to back pro-raw ideas, the pro-cooked crowd went ballistic and tried to stop me but largely failed since my studies had far greater validity than their often unreferenced claims.

[cherimoya_kid]

I'd rather deal with the New Agey types than Barrett.  At least you can ground their spaciness by asking for proof of their ideas.  You can throw proof at Barrett all day, but nothing will come of it.  He's too biased.  He's a fundamentalist of conventionalism.

At least the New Agey types will show UP here.  They say some crazy stuff from time to time but they are, for the most part, much more open-minded.  Open-mindedness + evidence-based is what we need.  That's how we got to where we are now.

[PaleoPhil]

There is a brilliant scientist who combines the best and avoids the worst of both orientations--Stephan Guyenet of http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com. He utilizes knowledge from traditional societies while avoiding romanticizing and he grounds it in hard science. He is also one of the few scientists who has publicly taken on Gary Taubes' theories and fared rather well in the debate (GT has risen to the challenge, so it's an interesting debate). As a result, he has the extreme cooked low carbers in an uproar, for taking on their "bacon-boy" god.

[Rawr]

I'd rather deal with the New Agey types than Barrett... You can throw proof at Barrett all day, but nothing will come of it.  He's too biased.  He's a fundamentalist of conventionalism.

Well... Quackwatch - Barrett - is no just a random "biased doctor". He is a Big Pharma puppet.


Dr. Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch Exposed In Court Cases

http://www.canlyme.com/quackwatch.html

"During the course of his examination, Barrett also had to concede his ties to the AMA, Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Food & Drug Administration (FDA)."

Failed MD Stephen Barrett

http://www.quackpotwatch.org/quackpots/quackpots/barrett.htm

Barrett, in the Canadian case, has formally admitted, according to Canadian law, to a number of situations put to him by the Plaintiff, including:

"The sole purpose of the activities of Barrett & Baratz are to discredit and cause damage and harm to health care practitioners, businesses that make alternative health therapies or products available, and advocates of non-allopathic therapies and health freedom."

"Barrett has interfered with the civil rights of numerous Americans, in his efforts to have his critics silenced."

"Barrett has strategically orchestrated the filing of legal actions in improper jurisdictions for the purpose of frustrating the victims of such lawsuits and increasing his victims costs."

Barrett's Funding - TOP SECRET...

Barrett was cornered in a Federal case in the State of Oregon not long ago, and asked about his income.  He testified that over the past two years he made a TOTAL of $54,000.

How then does he afford to carry on fourteen (14) separate legal actions at one time?

If each legal action cost him $100,000, that would come to 1.4 million dollars ($1,400,000).

How do you squeeze 1.4 million out of a $54,000 total income?


There are many more article about this PoS if you google "barett quackwatch", but these have enough information in themselves/ If you feel like "beating a dead horse", you can read all day about this guy. Not that there would be a point doing that... His motives are clear from reading almost any 3 articles you can randomly pick on his web - if you're "de-programmed" and at the same time knowledgable enough of how disease bussiness operates.

[cherimoya_kid]

Wow...he's pretty close to just being a flat-out criminal. Not shocking. Those who conspire to hide the truth are never far from criminal activity.

[mhikl]

TylerD, that you will even give QuackWatch any time suggest you have an mind that chooses to read from many sources, even opposing ones. Such will draw scorn but may suggest a quizzical mind in search of truth regardless—and from the widest possible sources. That you make retractions and admit error feeds the fire for truth. (feeling lyrical today)

On open minds. Such are good but my problem at times is finding the fine line between open and curious to open and easily swayed. Then there are the closed minds (prejudging) that fail to hear the wisdom that might come from the idiot's mouth. Which reminds me of Doug McGuff's comments on the survivor's (us) automatic response to conventional wisdoms (out of haste) in stressful times.

Having lived with "Noble Savages" on two continents the similarity to genius and stupidity mirrors modern society. A wakeup call was when I witnessed a Borneo Bomoh (witch doctor) drop kick the dog's head he had just severed across the room (part of the magic) after collecting the blood to drink and spread on a woman's cancerous belly. She died but a good time was had by all (thanks to the dog meat).

PaleoP, shall be following Stephan Guyenet. Thanks.

[PaleoPhil]

TylerD, that you will even give QuackWatch any time suggest you have an mind that chooses to read from many sources, even opposing ones. Such will draw scorn but may suggest a quizzical mind in search of truth regardless—and from the widest possible sources. That you make retractions and admit error feeds the fire for truth.

Indeed, it's nice that he puts some effort into searching out the truth, tries to support his claims with sources and acknowledges error. Useful information makes up for a lot of insult. If only all forum members would put some effort into supporting their claims with sources, instead of just spouting them like some sort of revelation from on high.

PaleoP, shall be following Stephan Guyenet. Thanks.

You're welcome, mhikl. Any time.

I witnessed a Borneo Bomoh (witch doctor) drop kick the dog's head he had just severed across the room (part of the magic) after collecting the blood to drink and spread on a woman's cancerous belly. She died but a good time was had by all (thanks to the dog meat).

Heh, heh. Thanks for sharing that humorous, if unfortunate, story. Being able to laugh at adversity is one of the solaces of being human.

[mhikl]

Heh, heh. Thanks for sharing that humorous, if unfortunate, story. Being able to laugh at adversity is one of the solaces of being human.

It was a traumatic experience at the time. I had no idea what was happening as the dog went for the plate of rice and the Bomoh swung the parang hidden behind his back—but the dog didn't know what hit him. It wasn't till I got back to my friends that I could sleep without an eye open and my shoes off.

[PaleoPhil]

Good heavens, I didn't realize he killed the dog and unexpectedly in front of you. I was thinking that the dog was already dead and you were relatively aware of what was going on. I should have guessed otherwise based on live animal sacrifices in the Bible and elsewhere that I've read about. That must have been quite a shock. Sorry you had to go through that.

[wodgina]

I love your dog story...what a ridiculous ( and funny) world.