Is really grass-fed >>> grain-fed?

[aLptHW4k4y]

http://blogs.das.psu.edu/tetherton/2010/10/07/telling-the-grass-fed-beef-story/

A pretty convincing argument that this grass-fed hype is a bit overblown.. what do you guys think?

Unrelated: why is the Ubuntu logo all over this forum?

[TylerDurden]

It's a very lame argument. Look at the eatwild.com website for research backing the health benefits of grassfed meats. Also, on an anecdotal level, most of us rawpalaeos find raw, grainfed meats to be not only largely tasteless but also not useful for regaining health. I'm a classic example:- before I tried a Primal Diet and subsequently a rawpalaeodiet, I tried a failed "Instincto" approach where I was under the foolish, ignorant impression that grainfed meat was fine as long as it was raw - I also consumed raw eggs from intensive-farming operations. It was a disaster, and I failed to improve at all except in only one aspect - my stomach-aches, which I got from eating cooked animal foods, did disappear, that was all.

[aLptHW4k4y]

Thanks for the link. I'll try grain-fed to compare, so far I've been only eating some organic raw beef which happens to be grass-fed.

[CitrusHigh]

From your link...

"The ‘potent anti-carcinogen’ CLA story may be one of the biggest hoaxes played on the consumer because the values used to differentiate grass-fed from grain-fed beef are from raw meat.  Samples of raw grass-fed beef consistently have twice the CLA content as a proportion of total fat than samples from raw grain-fed beef.  This means the typical grass-fed steak has the same CLA content as a Certified Angus Beef ®, heavily grain-fed steak because there would typically be twice as much total fat in the CAB steak. However, this is all irrelevant because studies show when the meat is cooked, there is no difference in CLA content because a large amount of the fat is lost in cooking."

Good for you questioning things Alph, but the fact is you'll never find ruminants out in the wild cultivating grains. The most grains they ever get are what's on the stalks of grass that has gone to seed. If you want to understand what makes healthy food you have to observe wild counterparts. Any time you deviate from such a diet you risk fouling up the resulting derivative foods (meat, milk, eggs, etc). Unfortunately you can't do it any better than nature already does it, the best you can hope to do is either live hunter gatherer existence and let the animals raise themselves, or do your damnedest to model their natural diets in herding/rearing operations. This is why our cows have NEVER seen a vet, while the conventional farms around us have them on speed dial!

[Dorothy]

If for no other reason at all - why would you want to eat cows that were treated cruelly when you have a choice not to? Cows are animals that eat grass. When you lock them up in relatively tiny pens and force them to eat gmo corn and soy it makes their lives a living hell. They get horrible infections so they have to live on antibiotics. The cruelty and sickness is then passed onto you when you eat them. Eat healthy cows that are treated well and that is what is passed onto you. The same holds for all the different animals. It's downright cruel to lock up a chicken in a tiny place and feed them a vegetarian diet when all they really want to eat are bugs out in the fresh air - scratching at the earth looking for them. Eating a tortured chicken or the egg from a tortured chicken? Just not good.

Grass-fed doesn't only mean fed grass - it means living naturally in the environment it needs and it means health and a good life for the cow. Stuck in a feed lot eating organic corn that it can't digest isn't all that much better. Grass-fed is where it's at.

[cherimoya_kid]

http://blogs.das.psu.edu/tetherton/2010/10/07/telling-the-grass-fed-beef-story/

A pretty convincing argument that this grass-fed hype is a bit overblown.. what do you guys think?

Unrelated: why is the Ubuntu logo all over this forum?

Do I smell an....industry shill?  Link spammer?  Or BOTH?

My, my.  Please reference my title "one who bans trolls", and tread lightly here.  I am well-known here for banning first, and asking questions later.

[aLptHW4k4y]

If for no other reason at all - why would you want to eat cows that were treated cruelly when you have a choice not to?

Because I'm very poor and grain-fed is cheaper, for example? What you're saying is very valid, just a bit off topic.

This guy says there's no evidence that grass-fed is healthier, it isn't much tastier, nor safer, which seems very much in contradiction to the experiences here. Personal experiences are most of the time fuzzy though, how do you know if it wasn't just a placebo effect, an effect from something third (e.g. was the problem the instincto diet, or the grain-fed meat, in TylerDurden's case; did his health improve significantly later because of switching to grass-fed, or because of being longer on raw diet), etc. I'm continuing on eatwild.com it seems like a pretty comprehensive collection of related research.

[aLptHW4k4y]

Good for you questioning things Alph, but the fact is you'll never find ruminants out in the wild cultivating grains. The most grains they ever get are what's on the stalks of grass that has gone to seed. If you want to understand what makes healthy food you have to observe wild counterparts. Any time you deviate from such a diet you risk fouling up the resulting derivative foods (meat, milk, eggs, etc).

The question is, how significant is this for our health? Is it orders of magnitude, or just tiny differences like a little more of this fatty acid and less of that one?

[goodsamaritan]

omega3test.com says you can measure the ratio of omega 3 and omega 6 in the blood of humans.

Anyone want to make an experiment from grain fed to grass fed?

[TylerDurden]

Well, in my own case, my health-recovery clearly couldn't be due to a placebo effect. The benefits I got were simply too great(for example, a large number of my health-problems vanished within a 4 month period after going rawpalaeo and going in for grassfed meat etc.).

[CitrusHigh]

haha do you think omega 3 is the only difference in the meat? Do you not think that the nutrient profile of the meat of grass fed cows is going to be different for each individual cow depending on the specific combo of grasses they ate in the years leading up to slaughter? Do you have any idea how many millions of compounds there are inside that animal's tissue? Do you realize that that is a direct result of the biochemical compounds in the forage? Do you think eating dead and lifeless corn can compare to fresh growing grass or even a variable dry forage?

And Dorothy is right on this one. The ethics far outweigh any other reason to go pastured. If you purchase CAFO meats, it is the same as voting 'yes' for CAFO's. And that is deplorable because then it is a lose lose lose for everyone including companies like cargill who are making tons of money on it (they have children who are going to have to be  a part of this planet too right?)

At $2-4/lb for grass fed organs I guess I don't see how even the poorest people, if getting their priorities in line could not afford grass fed meats, especially if they put a little effort in to it. You might have to get creative a bit, but to say you just can't afford it is a cop out.

[cherimoya_kid]

I know a girl who went paleo, and had terrible mood issues on grain-fed beef.  As soon as she switched to grassfed, her mood issues went away completely.  I even noticed a change in her personality, without actually knowing that she had switched.  It was a BIG difference.

So yeah, grain-fed is some nasty shit.

[aLptHW4k4y]

I bought some ground beef from the supermarket for the first time today.
The taste was slightly worse, but the most interesting thing was, the outside 1mm of the meat was bright red, while inside it was all brownish, kinda dead looking. I guess they put some chemicals to keep it fresh on the outside.
The grass-fed ground beef I buy is completely opposite, usually the outside is a bit brownish/oxidized, while inside it looks fresh.

[Löwenherz]

So yeah, grain-fed is some nasty shit.

Absolutely!

Grain fed beef really makes me ill, mentally and physically.

Löwenherz

[RawZi]

bright red, while inside it was all brownish, kinda dead looking. I guess they put some chemicals to keep it fresh on the outside.
The grass-fed ground beef I buy is completely opposite, usually the outside is a bit brownish/oxidized, while inside it looks fresh

    I noticed that the other day.  I have a big beef loin, not much of it left now But after a couple days my cats didn't want it, and I could only get "Premium" beef for them from the supermarket, it was the best unfrozen around me locally at the time.  They liked it, as it was fresh cut. It was brighter red than anything on the outside, and brown dingy colored on the inside.  I tried taking a taste, but it tasted disgusting.  I guess there's no accounting for cats' taste, they just like it freshest, as maybe it might tend to have more of the vitamins or something they need when it's moist and cut less time ago. That meat lasted about two days with them.  The beef loin, grass-fed, that I got two weeks ago still tastes pretty good to me.  Only one problem.. it tastes bitter on the outside bottom of the fat this purchase?  I don't know why it does, but I stopped eating that part on this piece of primal cut. It still has nicer color than the inside of the "Premium". 

    I know frozen fish is very bad for cats.  Anyone know whether frozen bison or frozen calves' liver is as bad for them as frozen fish?  Just in case I get caught in a bind again.. I'd like to know all the options other than the organic grain-free cans I keep on hand at times like those.

[RogueFarmer]

I raise goats and cows on forage and they are much healthier on diets of forage. Just like we can eat healthy food or potatoes which are supposedly "healthy" are really just unbalanced fuel. Cows can make lots of milk and grow big on hay and potatoes but they won't be as healthy. The buffalo lived off of grass, cows are even better at living off marginal grass than buffalo are. There are cows that live in dry lands where they just eat dry grass for as long as 5 or 6 months of the year.

Goat and cattle keepers I knew fed grain and had a medicine chest the size of a small fridge. They got sick animals and lost animals to sickness. That just hasn't happened to me, except when I aquired animals from other farms that had not been taken care of properly. Some animals are so bred that they won't work in my forage fed system of grazing but I culled those and now all my girls are hardy.

[TylerDurden]

RF, I was wondering if you, or anyone else focused on self-sufficient farming, could post a thread on rawpaleoforum on how to start one's own farm rawpalaeo-style? I think it would be most educational for those thinking of becoming independent in terms of food-supply, as the thread would point out all the standard mistakes to be avoided, which animals are the least "high-maintenance" etc.
I would turn the thread into a permanent "sticky" one.

[cherimoya_kid]

RF, I was wondering if you, or anyone else focused on self-sufficient farming, could post a thread on rawpaleoforum on how to start one's own farm rawpalaeo-style?
I would turn the thread into a permanent "sticky" one.

Excellent idea.  I like it.

[RogueFarmer]

RF, I was wondering if you, or anyone else focused on self-sufficient farming, could post a thread on rawpaleoforum on how to start one's own farm rawpalaeo-style? I think it would be most educational for those thinking of becoming independent in terms of food-supply, as the thread would point out all the standard mistakes to be avoided, which animals are the least "high-maintenance" etc.
I would turn the thread into a permanent "sticky" one.

Yeah I could give lots of tips and points, I have been thinking of writing a zine on the subject.
Next time I get on the internet I would like to write something.

You know if anyone out there is interested in this, I am really trying to put my feelers out there for anyone who wants to work on some kind of community farming project. I really want to settle down somewhere and put down permanent roots.
It could be anywhere almost, I just want to be somewhere with like minded people.

Yes, I will think about some things to write up.

Actually I have begun a project of photo documenting how I raise my animals. SPRING IS HERE BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Something you find out about in farming is that one day of spring = 2 or 5 days any other times of year as far as animals growing and healing. Spring is amazing. Go out there and find the fresh green shoots and juice them and you will know what I mean.

Find the grass and edible greens that are growing where snow has been melting and trickling or cool water running near the roots. You will find what energy tastes like, like they were  to a cow!

The grass is growing, the cows and the goats were so excited today they were frolicking and running with delight to eat the fresh spring greens.

[TylerDurden]

When you, or anyone else, get around to writing the article, please post it in the "Info For Newbies" section of rawpaleoforum. Other members can happily add to the first post if they have something else to contribute that would help those who want to be fully independent as regards their food-supply.

[cherimoya_kid]

Something you find out about in farming is that one day of spring = 2 or 5 days any other times of year as far as animals growing and healing. Spring is amazing. Go out there and find the fresh green shoots and juice them and you will know what I mean.

Dr. Price notes in his book that the vitamin A content of cows fed on spring grass was 50 times higher than from cows fed on winter grass.  Not 50%, not 500%, 5000%.  Five thousand percent higher.