Did I come to the right place?

[Lurch 51]

Hi,

I need to turn my health around. I'm in good general health but I got sick on a vegan diet I tried for 6-8 months last year. I used to be able to eat all the fruit I wanted to but I can't tolerate any of it any more. I was OK until I started using ACV apple cider vinegar with raw honey in it. I seem to have a candida infection that I need to resolve.
I think I'm going to do a VCO fast with yogurt but with no lemon juice, but with rock salt and water, and plant enzymes, and GSE with cayenne.  I'm a male, age 60, and I've had Hepatitis C for 30 years. I'm willing to eat anything at all in order to get well. I need to get a grip on this before it kills me. I have poor muscle tone and skin problems, and thinning hair. I've eaten cooked animal proteins for most of the last 30 years, with legumes, grains, vegs, and fruit. Lately, all I seem to tolerate is foods like meat, yogurt, rice, oats, but I don't think this is improving the health of my GI tract. I've been really confused. Yesterday I had bloating and I'm not even sure why. I guess it was the mold on the raw walnuts or some dried coconut I ate. I also ate steamed broccoli and cabbage and onions. I had been doing OK on grains and meat, but when I added broc and onions, I seemed to have trouble, so, I'm finding this confusing.

Feel free to encourage me if you want to. I want to learn the truth about eating raw proteins.

L

[TylerDurden]

Have a look at these links:-

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/important-info-for-newbies/

The catch with being old is that you will have accumulated a lot of heat-created toxins from cooked foods over the decades plus the damage created thereby. This means that much older people tend to benefit less from switching to raw foods than if they had done so decades earlier. That still means you will benefit, just not as much as if you were younger.

The other thing is to get rid of all grains and rice. Also get rid of these, as they are a waste of time:- " VCO fast with yogurt but with no lemon juice, but with rock salt and water, and plant enzymes, and GSE with cayenne."

Once you've had a go with the rawpalaeodiet, and have gotten used to and enjoy the taste of raw, fresh meats, you might consider trying "high-meat", as well in order to improve your gut issues to a greater extent.

[Lurch 51]

Thanks for your reply. I'm surprised you told me to quit the VCO cleanse. I have had a chronic bacterial infection that I have not as of yet gotten rid of. The person I got this info from posts here a lot and lives in Manilla, Philippines. He has all kinds of cure info on his website.

[Lurch 51]

PS - I don't consider myself old at age 60. I've taken enzymes for years and have eaten mostly organic foods, have exercised, done several dry heat saunas per week, used tons of coconut oil, and I don't know but I might do quite well on this raw diet, maybe more than the typical person of age 60 would do.

I kind of wish I hadn't mentioned my age at all. I'm kind of shocked and insulted that you called me an old person. That was quite rude, in my opinion, or insensitive to say the least..

[TylerDurden]

Thanks for your reply. I'm surprised you told me to quit the VCO cleanse. I have had a chronic bacterial infection that I have not as of yet gotten rid of. The person I got this info from posts here a lot and lives in Manilla, Philippines. He has all kinds of cure info on his website.

We all have different opinions here. I had awful stomac-aches from eating raw VCO, plus Aajonus has stated that VCO is never truly raw anyway, and I am deeply sceptical of pro-SFA claims re VCO for various other reasons.

[TylerDurden]

PS - I don't consider myself old at age 60. I've taken enzymes for years and have eaten mostly organic foods, have exercised, done several dry heat saunas per week, used tons of coconut oil, and I don't know but I might do quite well on this raw diet, maybe more than the typical person of age 60 would do.

I kind of wish I hadn't mentioned my age at all. I'm kind of shocked and insulted that you called me an old person. That was quite rude, in my opinion, or insensitive to say the least..

I meant no disrespect. I was simply pointing out that it's commonly reported for people who are middle-aged or above to have more issues than others as regards transitioning to raw diets for various reasons. For example, Aajonus Vonderplanitz, the raw food guru, has claimed that older people will usually have more problems with detoxes after going fully raw.

As regards exercise, that would certainly lower the effect of heat-created toxins in the body, according to some studies. The organic food aspect would only be genuinely healthy if the relevant organic meats were also grassfed, and so on.

[eveheart]

PS - I don't consider myself old at age 60.

I don't consider 60 to be old, but... there are recovery factors that do slow down and changes that take place.  My approach was to try a raw paleo diet for two weeks. After two weeks, I looked better and my tummy felt great, so I decided to try another four weeks. It's been almost a year now, and I'm very pleased with the results in my digestion, joints, energy level, uninterrupted sleep patterns, muscle tone, etc.

I have avoided the quick-fixes in favor of the slow-and-steady-progress. I read this forum daily, avoiding some of the off-topic banter, and my reading has taught me how to buy and handle raw meats. I have learned where to source well-priced meats. I have gotten ideas about handling social eating situations.

I would encourage you to try RPD for a while and see what you will see.

[Lurch 51]

OK, thanks for the replies. eveheart : are you the same age as me, 60?

Some things that make me wonder, yet, I'll educate myself more soon and will read Ajonus' book "The Recipe for Living Without Disease".

I have a history of elevated ferritin [iron]. Do you think raw red meat will make this go up? I think it's about 110 right now. I'd like to get it under 100.

FOr years I've eaten about 20%  meat and 70+% carbs or I'd get pain in my colon. Wondering what effect eating a high % of meat will have on this. I'm thinking that if I starve out the bad bacteria with low /no carb foods, that I will be able to eat more meat, plus, the raw factor must make it easier to digest. Does raw meat digest a whole lot easier than cooked? I've been eating a lot of crock pot cooked organic Coleman chickens.

Can't wait until I can thaw out one of these chickens and be hungry enough to actually tear into it, lol. When you're hungry enough to "eat the @ss end off a skunk", I think raw chicken would seem good, lol. My cats have been on raw meats for almost 2 years now. I think I'll have to compete with them for meals. I think I'd want to use a good sea salt.

[Adora]

Hi Lurch
     Welcome. I'm a new be 2. I went all raw 11-11. I'm 40 so you make me feel younger, Eve reminded me once how it's all relative. I'm glad you posted your age.  I work on a cardiac floor of the hospital and 3 years ago this - not kidding- gorgeous 80y/o man was admitted b/c he passed out after a running a marathon on a very cold day. They couldn't find anything wrong with him except his perfect low heart beat. They just sent him home and told him to be more careful. He was long, lean, and muscled, with a few distinguished lines, and lovely salt and pepper hair. His seemed unaware that he was exceptional, not modest, just calm about everthing. He had no vises, and generally listened to his body and took care of himself. He wasn't concerned about anything, He just took it all in stride. I watched him close b/c I had never seen anybody that well preserved and still haven't. I realized he paid full attention to his body and altered his course readily toward comfort. He didn't think about what was healthy or what other people did to be healthy. It was just natural to him. He wasn't the slightest bit worried about his heart or passing out, just interested in a relaxed mannor. I think about him all of the time. I wish had stayed in contact with him. I can't imagine him the slightest bit weak even when he is 100. I don't think he imagines it either. He just lived well day to  day.
     I think part of why I'm sensitive is b/c I just crossed the decade. At 30 I felt old, but at 35 I was used to it. I remember feeling good about my age. I thought, wow I was so stupid in my 20's, now that I'm more mature I can have a better life. I'm hoping I'll have the same thoughts at 45.
   On to you.
    You should get started. Just eat what you can raw. I wouldn't eat more red meat than your on until you become more comfortable with how your body adapts to full raw food diet. Avoid beans and grains. I don't do well with nuts, but if they are good for you, and safe for your liver, then eat them raw too. I would start with raw ocean fish and eggs. Poultry that isn't fed mostly grain is hard to get this time of year. If you can, find fresh (not frozen), organic, free range, poultry just cut a small slice and eat it. I was shocked by how good it was. A cooked browned bird was just so right in my head it was a shock to me that it was mild, and tender, and good fresh, and pink. If you don't like it you can still cook the rest of it. Just do what you can. , you can defrost the bird you already have, cut a small piece off as soon as you can cut through it, let it finish thawing, and try it. I like this diet much more than I thought I would. But, I go slow with new raw stuff. I don't push myself to eat something I don't like, after a couple of days or  week I start to want a bit of the new raw thing again. It's a progression. As I progress I just eat what raw foods I do like.  I would start with just the yolk of the egg, or poach the outside. I still don't like raw whites. Just look for where you can add raw and eliminated cooked, and get started. Finding raw fat was the hardest for me, and it is essential. I don't think you can be raw long without good animal fat. Veggie fat will hold you over in a pinch, like avocados and coconut, but eventually you need raw animal fat and chicken and fish have very little.
Good luck
keep us posted

[Lurch 51]

Hi,

I changed my mind about that 2 or 3 day VCO cleanse. It doesn't seem like a balanced cleanse. All that yogurt is high in sodium, plus the rock salt he recommends taking with it. What I probably need to do, is cut way back on carbs and quit grain either for now or for good. It's been a long time since I was not well enough to be able to eat raw nuts. Someone said Bee's site has a lot of interesting info, and I agree that it does.

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/index.php

[Lurch 51]

I need a heck of a lot of luck, and lots of prayers too. I'm really confused and have spent a lot of my savings on ways to try to improve my health and it hasn't gotten me very far. I don't see that I have a very bright future. Sometimes dying seems like the best alternative.

[cherimoya_kid]

If you can't tolerate fruits, don't eat them for a while.  It sounds like you may be deficient in minerals, since fruit can definitely drain you of minerals.  I would use Terramin clay, unrefined Celtic Sea Salt (or dulse), dolomite, and maybe bone meal to remineralize.  I think the bloating may simply be due to a lack of minerals, especially sodium.

Also, high meat/fish would probably really help your digestion. Fermented foods in general will help, probably.  Post your daily diet.

[PaleoPhil]

I don't see that I have a very bright future. Sometimes dying seems like the best alternative.

Good grief, man. At least try raw Paleo before you kick off. Death was starting to look rather attractive to me as well before I tried a more super-strict version of cooked Paleo and experienced a miraculous rejuvenation of health I had nearly given up hope of ever achieving, but I figured it was at least worth a shot. Then I tried the even more savage raw Paleo and found that the greater the savagery, the more splendiferous the benefits. I'll never again listen to the people who claim that dietary strictness is not necessary or beneficial for anyone.

Welcome, BTW, and Lurch is a good name. Quite pleasant and heart-warming. You've made my day with it, so you've already done some good and proved yourself worthy of living.

[goodsamaritan]

Hi,

I need to turn my health around. I'm in good general health but I got sick on a vegan diet I tried for 6-8 months last year. I used to be able to eat all the fruit I wanted to but I can't tolerate any of it any more. I was OK until I started using ACV apple cider vinegar with raw honey in it. I seem to have a candida infection that I need to resolve.
I think I'm going to do a VCO fast with yogurt but with no lemon juice, but with rock salt and water, and plant enzymes, and GSE with cayenne.  I'm a male, age 60, and I've had Hepatitis C for 30 years. I'm willing to eat anything at all in order to get well. I need to get a grip on this before it kills me. I have poor muscle tone and skin problems, and thinning hair. I've eaten cooked animal proteins for most of the last 30 years, with legumes, grains, vegs, and fruit. Lately, all I seem to tolerate is foods like meat, yogurt, rice, oats, but I don't think this is improving the health of my GI tract. I've been really confused. Yesterday I had bloating and I'm not even sure why. I guess it was the mold on the raw walnuts or some dried coconut I ate. I also ate steamed broccoli and cabbage and onions. I had been doing OK on grains and meat, but when I added broc and onions, I seemed to have trouble, so, I'm finding this confusing.

Feel free to encourage me if you want to. I want to learn the truth about eating raw proteins.

L

My first guess would be to take care of gut health.
Take therapeutic doses of probiotics.
And cycle different brands of probiotics.
OMX is on good brand, 10 capsules per day before meals.
Drink for 2 days to 7 days.
Then cycle with another brand on therapeutic doses.
Then cycle with another brand on therapeutic doses.
Eat high meat too.

[eveheart]

I'm really confused and have spent a lot of my savings on ways to try to improve my health and it hasn't gotten me very far.

I had that confusion, too. I was one step away from getting a wheelchair or scooter for arthritic hips. I walk fine now, with just a hint of limp that is steadily getting less. I have to admit that sometimes  I try to complicate RPD, and all it does is bring me anxiety. Then, I get back to keeping it simple, and things are okay.

Things that help my thinking stay simple are
- sticking to foods that have no labels (nothing processed or packaged)
- eating a variety of animal parts
- eating animals that were fed only their natural diets (grass for ruminants, bugs and such for fowl, natural habitat for seafoods)
- not blindly following this or that guru
- cultivating good thought habits like love, peace, joy, gratitude, forgiveness.

Also, I keep my head straight and sane by trying one new thing at a time. I would have never known how good raw paleo diet was for my health if I tried a zillion things at once. If I may make a recommendation, it would be to do raw meat with fats and organs and eliminate grains and legumes. I eat dairy-free, too, because I know I do not digest it well. After a few days or weeks, you will be able to tell if you want fruits or vegetables, nuts or eggs, and how much.

I never say my age here, but you can call me eveheart 51. 

[cherimoya_kid]

....the greater the savagery, the more splendiferous the benefits...

I love this line.

[Joy2012]

I don't think you can be raw long without good animal fat. Veggie fat will hold you over in a pinch, like avocados and coconut, but eventually you need raw animal fat and chicken and fish have very little.

Will someone tell me why vegi fat is inferior to animal fat  for healing/health? By vegi fat I do not mean bottled vegi oil; I mean high-fat low-carb whole organic nuts/seeds like walnuts and macademia nuts and sesame seeds (all soaked overnight and dehydrated at a low temperature).

[goodsamaritan]

Phil, can you describe "the savagery?"

[PaleoPhil]

I love this line.

Thanks. 

Phil, can you describe "the savagery?"

It's a tad tongue-in-cheek. I'm referring to the horror many modern Western people express when encountering the fact that some people eat the foods that we raw Paleo dieters eat. To many critics of raw Paleo, it seems that eating plenty of meat is "savage" and eating it raw is even more savage, and eating raw organs is still more so and eating raw high meat is almost incomprehensible to them. And when it comes to eating high meat, insects, grubs, and other little critters, they even make TV shows in which eating them is a horrific spectacle, and it turns out that all these practices are quite healthy for most. The general tendency seems to be that the more savage something is regarded, the more healing properties it is likely to have.

[goodsamaritan]

Try diluted orange juice fasting.  Plus raw duck egg yolks when hungry.  Try 3 days of that.
If you need info on how to do it just ask.

[van]

about veg. vs. animal fats.  First to get enough fat from nuts, you have to eat quite a bit.  That may or may not work for some due to the condition of the nuts, rancid or not, and as to how digestible the nuts are for some.  Even fresh nuts that have been soaked still are no where near as digestible as animal fat for me.  And most have more omega 6 vs 3.  If you eat nuts or seeds and eat them alone (and not heat treated ones) you most likely will notice pretty soon a stop telling you you've had enough.  And then notice also how your body reacts to them,, whether some nasal congestion happens or how your stomach feels etc.  Nuts unless heated or soaked have quite a number of enzyme inhibitors that make their digestibility questionable and bind up key nutrients.    Fresh brazil nuts cracked from shell,  coconut (if a nut), soaked almonds out of shell that haven't been heated, and some fresh walnuts in the fall (just off the trees) are a few that work for me, especially coconut.  I like to grate it and essentially suck out the juices or fat and spit most of the fibre out.   But  once again in comparison to fresh beef back fat, and soft marrow bones, nuts pale in comparison.

[Joy2012]

about veg. vs. animal fats.  First to get enough fat from nuts, you have to eat quite a bit.  That may or may not work for some due to the condition of the nuts, rancid or not, and as to how digestible the nuts are for some.  Even fresh nuts that have been soaked still are no where near as digestible as animal fat for me.  And most have more omega 6 vs 3.  If you eat nuts or seeds and eat them alone (and not heat treated ones) you most likely will notice pretty soon a stop telling you you've had enough.  And then notice also how your body reacts to them,, whether some nasal congestion happens or how your stomach feels etc.  Nuts unless heated or soaked have quite a number of enzyme inhibitors that make their digestibility questionable and bind up key nutrients.    Fresh brazil nuts cracked from shell,  coconut (if a nut), soaked almonds out of shell that haven't been heated, and some fresh walnuts in the fall (just off the trees) are a few that work for me, especially coconut.  I like to grate it and essentially suck out the juices or fat and spit most of the fibre out.   But  once again in comparison to fresh beef back fat, and soft marrow bones, nuts pale in comparison.

Van, thanks for responding to my question. So, in your view the main problem with nuts is their digestibility and Omega 6? I mostly eat raw walnuts (purchased from a store that refrigerates all the nuts) that I soak overnight. I do not feel any indigestibility or discomfort.

Here is the fat content for 1/4 cup of walnuts:
fat - total 16.30 g
saturated fat 1.53 g 
mono fat 2.23 g 
poly fat 11.79 g
trans fatty acids 0.00 g
cholesterol 0.00 mg

1/4 cup of walnuts provides 94.5% DV of Omega 3 fatty acids.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=99

Is  all "poly fat" Omega 6? What do you think of Walnuts'  fat profile?

[Lurch 51]

Hi,

I was depressed last night and not feeling well.  Since last July I've struggled with trying to correct the mess that a vegan diet did tom my GI tract. I've been in denial in a way. What I've needed to do is go back to low carb vegs and animal proteins only and quit the nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, at least for a while. Broccoli, cabbage, and onions inhibit bacteria. So do turnips and rutabaga but they're higher carb.

I noticed as of late that I don't tolerate things like Betaine HCl, distilled vinegar, and even calcium lactate any more. Betaine gives me palpitations, and taking 5-7 caps with each meal depleted my magnesium. Vinegar to acidify my GI tract does not feel like it's the right thing to do. Raw ACV made me quite sick.

I had the idea that my pH was too alkaline. It's weird but I seem to be able to tolerate acid producing foods OK, foods like meat, eggs, rice, tomato, corn, Ezekiel bread, and olives, but the eczema on my head didn't improve, and if I kept eating all these carbs, I don't know if it would ever improve, or would take a long time if it did. If I was too alkaline, I could taste it and feel it. I've been that way before and it can make me so tired that I can hardly get off of the sofa. I don't think I've been too alkaline in a good 10 years or so.

Not sure what made me sick yesterday, well, actually, I am. I was going to try the 2 or 3 day VCO cleanse, and I did OK with it while taking my home made pasteurized organic milk kefir, but when I took pasteurized organic store yogurt, I got sick and had bloating, fatigue, head fog, and all that awful stuff. I just need to be real careful what I eat at this time. I hate to admit it but I need to go back to square one, the square I haven't been at in 15 or 20 years. It seems so unreal to walk into stores and not be able to buy the foods I've been buying for years but I need to eat to live at this time.

For the second time I found calcium supps to sedate me. I broke my ankle last Summer after I collided with a car on my bicycle and was taking calcium tinctures to help mend the bone, and they used to make me feel groggy, sedated, and sleepy. I tried Calcium Lactate for a week or so and it seems to do about the same thing. Not a good feeling at all. You sleep like a log but you feel kind of subdued and depressed in the daytime, and, it isn't worth it. I was told that thyroid hormone is needed to build bone, among other things like Ca and Mg.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do but this makes more sense than the raw vegan or even cooked vegan diets. I'm going to have to educate myself on this RPD more. I'm kind of tired of changing the way I eat, reading health books, etc. Low carb is really the WTG tho. If grains prevent me from healing my GI tract at this time, this will most likely subtract from my well being when I feel my GI tract is healthy. My stubbornness to quit grain may be a big part of the reason why I have poor muscle tone and eczema. I have to start at square one in order to get to square 2, 3, and 4. You can't skip any steps.

Not sure if I'd devote to this way of eating. If cooked paleo improves your health some, and raw does even more, than I may try it myself. I have no social life, so from that POV, I could do it.

[van]

Lurch it IS hard to keep trying things while finding no results.   That path can weaken patience.  Most here haven't found immediate relief over night.  That would be my suggestion for you.  Otherwise you'll find yourself constantly lost in your thoughts, and boy can they change moment to moment.  There's hardly a website anywhere that still suggests eating grains, so I'm sure at least most here would strongly suggest giving them up for at least a trial period, maybe a couple of months.  My guess is you will experience some 'withdrawal' symptoms.   So find vegetables that you can steam lightly and eat to substitute for the carbs you receive from grains.  Limit potatoes, and other starchy vegs.   And by all means find good sources of fat; back fat, soft marrow bones,  butter,  avocado, coconut  and others.     Find a good magnesium supplement, like 'concentrace' sea mins.  Don't worry about ca.  Eat your protein sources alone for a while, and let your stomach get used to producing the needed Hcl.   Seven or eight capsules is a lot.  when I used them I never really used more than two.  Once again,  eat smaller portions of protein, and let them digest without burdening your system by combining lots of other foods at the same time.    What ever diet you choose, there is a period of time that the body needs to normalize.  Keep it simple, don't eat too much fruit and sugar, stay away from grains, only eat what tastes good to you (but try different foods with an open mind again over time)  make sure you're committing as much to exercise and stilling or watching your mind as you are to finding a diet that works,  try not to overeat to satisfy other desires, keep it simple. 
    Hope this helps in some way.   I'm sure other here will chime in if you have more questions, we're all here to help,  and help ourselves too.  We're all learning. 

[van]

Joy hi,  good for you for finding Walnuts to your liking.  I have gone through phases where I used them a lot too.  They are one of the better nuts in my opinion, along with in the shell fresh brazil nuts.  I used to crack and soak my walnuts more than overnight, rinsing at least a couple  of times,,  seemed to help.  Pay attention to how you adapt to them over the long run; ie, should you still enjoy eating them, still digest well..    One of the reasons I love animal fat is that I never get tired of it, or I always look forward to eating it, especially when hungry.    And again,  I'm enjoying the liquid  or fat from the meat of dark mature coconuts right now.