A Tale of Two Paleo Eaters

[Fibra73]

My fiancee and I have been Paleo for 6 months now.  Other than some occasional cream in coffee, dark chocolate, and drops of black berry jam in cookies we make once in a great while we are very strict.  I would say my fiancee is much more strict.  I have been losing weight at roughly 8 pounds a month, but she hasn't really lost much in the way of inches or slimming and is struggling to understand why.  We probably sleep 7-7.5 hours a night so I know we could sleep more, but we both do the same basics and yet I am succeeding where she struggles.  Any suggestions?

Just FYI
Most of our meals involve:

Lamb, sausage, chicken, bacon, or fish
Chard, Chinese Broccoli, onions, mushrooms, peppers, and occasional sweet potatoes

Thanks for your help!

[achillezzz]

Try eating your proteins raw for a change.. that might help..
Drop all the veggies increase the fat intake practice IF and FC. and sleep even more.

[Iguana]

Drop all the veggies

Why?

increase the fat intake practice IF and FC.

Why again? What are IF and FC?

Welcome to Fibra73, BTW.

[Fibra73]

Thanks for the welcome, and I agree, why no veggies and what is IF & IC?

[goodsamaritan]

Coffee is total poison. Drop it. Not one drop for 6 months. You'll see.

Switch to raw paleo diet.

You sound like you are still on cooked paleo.

[TylerDurden]

Raw foods are much more slimming than cooked foods. The body adapts to cooked foods partially by storing the toxins from cooked foods in the fat-cells so there is a tendency to gain weight on a cooked  diet.

Iguana, the point re veggies is that plant foods-consumption stimulates the appetite more, whereas animal fat gives one more lasting energy re calories so that one's appetite is less, thus resulting in less weight-gain.

IF is Intermittent Fasting. No idea what FC stands for.

GS is right. Coffee really fouls up one's glands in the long-term. That said, before I went rawpalaeo, the only thing that made me avoid my chronic fatigue symptoms was coffee. Trouble was it only worked for about 30 minutes or less, so that I had to drink coffee every half hour for the benefit to continue.

[achillezzz]

Sorry for throwing the term FC just like that what I really meant was Food combining..

[achillezzz]

Why?Why again? What are IF and FC?

Welcome to Fibra73, BTW.

Increased fat consumption increase satiety thereof decrease the tendency to overeat there are alot of studies pointing out that paleo diet works miracles for fat Loss because it increases satiety and we eat less calorie.. But when you throw all kinds of "interesting" veggies you increase the tendency to overeat..  Not to mention their alkalizing effect on Our gastrointestinal tract and the fiber content which causes fermentation. Many RAFers reported very noticeable improvement in their digestion after ditching all fruits veggies. One even claimed to stop supplementing with HCL because his digestion improved miracles.

[Iguana]

Many RAFers reported very noticeable improvement in their digestion after ditching all fruits veggies. .

It may be ok for a while, especially for the ones who have been vegans for several years and thus have to compensate for previous deficiencies. But in the long run it doesn't work. I personally know two individuals who tried that groundless "raw zero carb" stupidity. They found themselves in a bad state after some months and had to stop it.

Don’t forget that carnivores also eat the stomach content of their preys, which most of the time is loaded with plant stuff.

[Iguana]

 

Iguana, the point re veggies is that plant foods-consumption stimulates the appetite more, whereas animal fat gives one more lasting energy re calories so that one's appetite is less, thus resulting in less weight-gain.

Obese people can lose up to 1 kg per day with instinctive raw paleo nutrition - which includes unlimited amounts of veggies and quite a lot of fruits. And the more they eat, the faster they lose weight: it appears that copious intakes of raw food activates the elimination of previously accumulated abnormal molecules.

I totally agree about coffee. http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/coffee-a-splendid-paleolithic-brew/msg78629/#msg78629

Cooking food also generates thousands of chemicals. There are over 1000 chemicals reported in a cup of coffee. Only 26 have been tested in animal cancer tests and more than half are rodent carcinogens; there are still a thousand chemicals left to test. The amount of potentially carcinogenic pesticide residues consumed in a year is less than the amount known of rodent carcinogens in a cup of coffee.

[van]

Iguana,  I always look forward to your posts.   But this time I want to call you on using the word 'stupidity'.  Maybe it's just ego, but I don't think one needs to go that far.  I for one am close to raw zero carb for about six years now, and do quite well, far better than following Instincto.  Just like those who follow instincto, there are ways in following raw zero carb that can lead one off the trail.  So I think it is rather pointless in trying to categorize a way of eating as stupid because of a few.  In fact until one would test a way of eating long enough to find out for one's self, all judging is rather pointless.    I think it's more worthwhile to find out why others have failed on a particular diet and point out that for some that may be something to watch out for.  For instance, with instincto,  I've seen many fail due to the overeating of sugary foods including dates and honey. And others early on by overeating and improper respect for food combining.   And, I've seen people fail with raw zero carb by trying to get sufficient fat energy from fat sources like suet because they can't find more readily digestible sources of fat like back fat or soft marrow, and those who don't eat organs, or eat too much protein, or trying to adopt a one meal a day plan, or trying to live off of pemmican, or didn't have the persistence or fortitude/patience to shift from being a sugar burner to a fat burner.  Or even continue long enough till their digestive stomach acids returned to normal levels after being vegan or vegetarian years, or learn to shift the habit pattern of snacking throughout the day to maintain blood sugar levels.   
    Once again, I think it's much more helpful to point out sign posts for others to be aware of when finding out for themselves what way of eating makes sense.    thanks for reading,  Van

[Löwenherz]

..or didn't have the persistence or fortitude/patience to shift from being a sugar burner to a fat burner.

How long did your body need for the shift?

I tried raw ZC several times but always failed. I got "adrenal burnout symptoms" with extreme irritability beside other problems like dry mouth etc.

Löwenherz

[van]

don't remember exactly.  But I can remember the first week,,  on the couch, no energy, wondering why I'm doing this.  It does get easier and easier.   And now when I eat more than a little fruit my body can feel the outcome, which is a rise in blood sugar and an ensuing off balance to my system.  I had always accepted that before as normal.  One of the overlooked benefits of near zero carb is the homeostasis or calm balance of the body.  There's more and more information on what happens when insulin rises and how all the glands/organs are interrelated.      Dry mouth comes to me when I overeat.  But if I eat and stop before getting full or leave the table still hungry, it's no problem.  Same for eating before bed.  I need to stop eating 3-4 hours before sleeping at night.

   Still can't find those really fat dark brown coconuts like I used to years ago.  There's the new fashion of the white ones that everyone's getting to drink the liquid.  Funny, the best liquid comes from the darker ones, I think.  But I do love to shred the med. brown ones and chew and suck the juices/fat from them.  I also add about a tablespoon or two of shredded to my meat meals.  Not too much, but enough fiber and taste to please. 

[Iguana]

Iguana,  I always look forward to your posts.   But this time I want to call you on using the word 'stupidity'.  Maybe it's just ego, but I don't think one needs to go that far. 

Ok Van, maybe I should have used another word… but this is only my own opinion and one is of course not compelled to agree. Opposed arguments are welcome and I would particularly appreciate if someone concisely let me know which mammal (or even animal) on Earth eats “zero carb” without any flora intake, taking into account the fact that carnivores also eat the stomach content of their preys, which most of the time is loaded with plant stuff.

Cheers
Francois

[cherimoya_kid]

Ok Van, maybe I should have used another word… but this is only my own opinion and one is of course not compelled to agree. Opposed arguments are welcome and I would particularly appreciate if someone concisely let me know which mammal (or even animal) on Earth eats “zero carb” without any flora intake, taking into account the fact that carnivores also eat the stomach content of their preys, which most of the time is loaded with plant stuff.

Cheers
Francois

Francois, I agree that most people won't do their best on ZC.  In fact, quite a few people, like our fellow mod Tyler Durden, get VERY sick on it.  However, there is a minority of the population who seem to do well on it, long-term.

I actually do very well on ZC, but I don't eat that way, because I'm afraid of what it might do to my cardiovascular system.  I've already had several small strokes, starting at age 17, and heart disease and strokes are very prevalent in my family.

[Löwenherz]

And now when I eat more than a little fruit my body can feel the outcome, which is a rise in blood sugar and an ensuing off balance to my system.

Beef fat and other heavy saturated animals fats CAN cause so called "impaired" glucose tolerance. This was always the case after my zc experiments.

Two bananas gave me a blood sugar of 194 mg/dl 30 minutes after eating. This is probably extremely unhealthy. On a low fat diet I can eat as much sugar as I want (in any form) without high blood sugar spikes (never over 130). If I add olive oil, coconut milk , avocadoes, nuts or egg yolks my blood sugar is also very stable.

This could be the justification of the term "healthy fats".

Dry mouth comes to me when I overeat.  But if I eat and stop before getting full or leave the table still hungry, it's no problem.  Same for eating before bed.  I need to stop eating 3-4 hours before sleeping at night.

Very interesting!

   Still can't find those really fat dark brown coconuts like I used to years ago.

I also can't buy them in Germany at the moment. 

Löwenherz

[Löwenherz]

I actually do very well on ZC, but I don't eat that way, because I'm afraid of what it might do to my cardiovascular system.

So, you eat animal fats AND carbs? This could be even more dangerous, I think.

During my ZC experiments I always got massive heart problems. Palpitations and chest pain etc. I never went away, like some Zero carbers report. Perhaps, I have always eaten too much? Or was my body not "fat adapted" enough? Or are such heavy fats form domesticated land mammals as unhealthy as all cardiologists claim? Hmm..

Löwenherz

[van]

Francois,  I know,  my goat guard dogs ( which have eaten raw meat and bones, organs, since birth)  love to eat the goat pellet poo.  So much, wondered someday if I might try them.  Maybe.
  I don't think there's many carbs left in them though.  Certainly not to the extent of eating fruit.  But of course wolves etc. will eat any fruit fallen from a tree.  Since I haven't tasted the pellets, can't tell you what my guess is as to why they like them. They could be sweet tasting, and then it may be for bacteria, or fibre, or just something to chew on.  I'd have to see a study to know for my self how many carnivores go for intestines or stomach contents before eating livers, hearts, back fat, testicles, eye balls,  licking up blood etc. ( I have seen a video of an animal shaking a long piece of intestines to empty it before eating the sack itself ).  I'm sure what's left over will be eaten in it's entirety by the next hungry batch of animals moving in to the carcass.  And can very well  imagine a whole host of nutrients inherent within the filtering layers of intestines/stomachs, with their connected veins and arteries running to the liver etc. 
     To clarify further with me,  I tend to do better with a fruit a day like meyer lemon, or pomegranite, or other vit. C. rich variety, and lately seaweeds.   I like a little avocado with meat,  get carbs from my duck's egg yolks, some from fresh coconut, or the few other nuts I occasionally eat,  and the few carbs from the liver I eat a couple of times a week.  But then I feel lucky,  for I can get really good fat from animals, fresh fat, that prepared properly tastes better than almost any food I know of.  I really think there's an art or an 'instinct' that one needs to develop to getting sufficient energy from animal fat over carbs.  I know I wouldn't thrive without my sources of those fats.  That's why I've been questioning  Lowenherz about his consumption of coconuts, as a possible alternative should the need ever arise.     later,  Van

[TylerDurden]

PP once mentioned how wolves don't actually eat the stomach-contents of their prey, as I recall.

[cherimoya_kid]

So, you eat animal fats AND carbs? This could be even more dangerous, I think.

How?  Extremes are naturally more dangerous, generally. I aim for the middle path.

[PaleoPhil]

PP once mentioned how wolves don't actually eat the stomach-contents of their prey, as I recall.

Most of the sources I found said it was very rare to nonexistent for them to do so and some attributed the rare cases to starvation or malnutrition. I also pointed out, however, that I've seen a video of Inuit hunters dipping pieces of liver into the stomach contents of a caribou (though they discarded most of it) and fresh liver itself tends to contain some carbs. If anyone has evidence of a nonstarving wolf eating stomach contents, I'd be interested to see it. I don't rule it out completely.

Probably more importantly, wolves have been videoed eating wild berries. Granted, like other canids, they probably don't digest them well.

[cherimoya_kid]

Probably more importantly, wolves have been videoed eating wild berries. Granted, like other canids, they probably don't digest them well.

I've seen my neighbor's dog eat blackberries right off the vine.  He was a good friend of mine. We hung out together when I would go for long walks.

Also, a friend of mine said she had to fence in her tomato plants, or the coyotes would eat the tomatoes.

I don't know why everyone acts like canids won't eat fruit. They do.  I've seen cats eat grass, too.

[PaleoPhil]

The tarsier is an obligate carnivore that's probably more relevant to humans than cats, as it's a primate. Interestingly, I've never seen or heard of a tarsier eating grass or any other plant (other than what's in the stomachs of the insects and tiny animals it eats). On the other hand, the more recent and direct primate ancestors of humans did eat some plant foods, such as roots, legume and herb tubers, nuts, groundnut legumes (http://news.discovery.com/human/human-ancestor-diet-nuts.html), and fruits/berries.

And there are more arguments on both sides (for humans to eat either a very low carb, meat-heavy diet or to eat a diet relatively rich in plant foods). Adaptability seems to be one of the factors in human survival and global expansion, and what works seems to vary greatly between individuals.

[Löwenherz]

How?  Extremes are naturally more dangerous, generally. I aim for the middle path.

I agree regarding extremes. But if you eat heavy saturated animals fats on a regular basis its very likely that you get HUGE blood sugar spikes after eating carbs..

Löwenherz

[HIT_it_RAW]

I agree regarding extremes. But if you eat heavy saturated animals fats on a regular basis its very likely that you get HUGE blood sugar spikes after eating carbs..
Löwenherz

I never experienced any of that...
Genrally my diet is fat heavy with very little carbs. On workout days I eat lots of fruits to up my glycogen storage fore the workout to come. I get blood sugar spikes from sweetened beverages and cooked starch and know the feeling of huge energy spikes followed by lethargy very well. I never get these feeling from raw fruits.