Longterm Primal dieters?

[HIT_it_RAW]

I was wondering if there are people here who have practised AV's  dietary recommendations long term and if so how are you doing?

I recently found (after searching for it for more than a year) a supply of raw butter and no salt added raw cheese. I already had access to raw milk and seem to do very good with raw dairy. So I'm going to experiment with the Primal diet again. Last time I did, I didn't have access to raw butter so that stopped that experience.

[TylerDurden]

You might want to ask at the primal diet yahoo group though it seems to be largely moribund these days. It's a closed group so here is the e-mail address/info etc. required to join:-

"This is a community list for those interested in sharing/getting support regarding the diet recommended by Aajonus Vonderplanitz in his book, "We Want to Live." Not a list for general discussion about raw foods, this list is specifically designed to be a supportive community for people using/experimenting with Aajonus' raw animal food recommendations. To become a member, email primaldiet-owner@yahoogroups.com with a rationale for your request. * Note - This group is not affiliated with or endorsed by Aajonus Vonderplanitz. Primal Diet? is a registered trademark of Aajonus Vonderplanitz. To visit the official Primal Diet? site, please visit http://www.primaldiet.com/"

[HIT_it_RAW]

Thanx Tyler I'll check that out.

[raw-al]

We've been doing it according to his book (roughly) for about 2 or 3 years or so. Can't remember exactly. (maybe it affects memory  )

We've had good luck although we don't do the juicing. Just maybe once or twice a week.

Also I had to back off the fruit (not eliminate) because I was getting colds, cankers etc. I have raspberries with cream/butter/honey.

We still eat eggs, but less than initially, maybe one or two a day.

We are lucky we have a raw milk source who has raw cheese (excellent) and cream that we make our own butter with (incredibly easy)

In fact we want to move to the west coast of Canada (grandchildren) but are hesitating due to the lack of availability of the cheese and cream and what milk we could get is awesomely expensive.

[HIT_it_RAW]

Thanx for sharing your experience Al. How about detoxes? Do you still ge them every now and then? I know a lot of people here think that if you keep having small detox like symptoms regularly it probably isn't a detox but some allergy/intollerance. I'm not sure about this. I think the primal diet is the most detoxing variant of the paleo diet and since it is impossible to not get toxins in your system in this incredible toxic world it is very well possible that they are in fact real detoxes.

I used to only be able to get raw milk and some raw heavily salted cheese(supermarket). I made butter from it once but then i had 500 grams of butter and 8liter skim milk that i wasn't interested in so I did it just that once. I just got of the phone with my new found supplier(farmer) of raw butter and cheese. He told me they make the butter once every 2 weeks and than freeze it. He agreed to sell me the butter unfrozen next time. I'll go get some of the frozen one this afternoon. Do you have any experience with frozen butter? I know AV isn't very fond of it.

[raw-al]

Detox is a funny word. It has been discussed here ad nauseum in different threads.

There is such a thing as a detox where you eat some crap for a long time and some of it sticks to your innards somewhere, for various reasons and then you consume something else or get off the sofa, or you "catch" a cold and suddenly all of that stuff gets disturbed, rather like a washing machine does to dirt. Then it all comes rushing out and during that rushing out, you feel very bad, then you feel better when it's out.

Unfortunately most people don't realize that, yes, you may be having a detox but it wasn't necessary to have it in the first place.

What you should do is figure out which foods agree with you. If you get a reaction that you don't like from a food that you eat regularly, try eliminating it from your diet for say a month and see how you feel. Then try eating it for awhile. If nothing changes from the stopping and then restarting then it is presumably safe.

Some foods may take a longer and some shorter.

For me (pasteurized dairy) the change was almost immediate and very powerful.
Suddenly, gas, bloating, backaches, prostate discomfort and urination problems, lethargy, and a host of other lactose intolerance issues vanished overnight. Then it was all back with the first glass of pasteurized dairy a month later.

Raw dairy is no problem. Heated honey is very bad news for me but raw is zero problem.

You can either experiment to find out or go to an Ayurvedic doctor to get a diagnosis of what foods are apropos for you. Some stuff is on the web however you should be careful with it.

[freezerburn]

We are lucky we have a raw milk source who has raw cheese (excellent) and cream that we make our own butter with (incredibly easy)

In fact we want to move to the west coast of Canada (grandchildren) but are hesitating due to the lack of availability of the cheese and cream and what milk we could get is awesomely expensive.

If you are thinking Vancouver or the lower mainland the source for 'cosmetic' raw dairy is through Ourcows@gmail.com (or Home on the Range) and it is expensive.  A cow share is first purchased and then a weekly care fee is applied.  You get one gallon of milk per week at $18.50.

Such a shame it is such a challenge.

[raw-al]

Wow, We were looking @ the Sunshine Coast a couple of weeks ago but couldn't find a dairy farmer. Bummer, we like it there. Vancouver Island has one source apparently but it is as you said 16 for 4 L.

We pay 8 for 4 L and 300. for 5 years. We get about 10 to 12 L per week.

We can make the cheese but our farmer makes very consistent and good cheese. So 20 litres of milk will make 1 L of cheese.

However having said that I can see why the high cost, as the oriental invasion has driven prices of land through the roof. Additionally farmland is rare in rain soaked mountains. 

[raw-al]

If you are thinking Vancouver or the lower mainland the source for 'cosmetic' raw dairy is through Ourcows@gmail.com (or Home on the Range) and it is expensive.

What do you mean by cosmetic?

[TylerDurden]

This is the website that raw-dairy drinkers need to look at:-

http://www.realmilk.com/where-other.html#can

 It is by no means complete, as I know of a number of sources that never appear there.

[HIT_it_RAW]

Wow, We were looking @ the Sunshine Coast a couple of weeks ago but couldn't find a dairy farmer. Bummer, we like it there. Vancouver Island has one source apparently but it is as you said 16 for 4 L.

We pay 8 for 4 L and 300. for 5 years. We get about 10 to 12 L per week.

We can make the cheese but our farmer makes very consistent and good cheese. So 20 litres of milk will make 1 L of cheese.

However having said that I can see why the high cost, as the oriental invasion has driven prices of land through the roof. Additionally farmland is rare in rain soaked mountains. 

I feel sorry for you guys. milk is very cheap here. I get grassfed milk for 0,80euro/ltr. no additional payments. Holland should be a raw milk wonderland. we have an abundance of grasslands and cows. But it took me a full year to find a farmer who would sell me raw butter and no salt added raw cheese.

[raw-al]

This is the website that raw-dairy drinkers need to look at:-

http://www.realmilk.com/where-other.html#can

 It is by no means complete, as I know of a number of sources that never apper there.

Thanks Tyler, That's where we found our farmer.

We did a protest at the Federal Government department responsible for food in Canada a few months ago. They have no problem certifying raw milk. it's really just a paper chase. The problem is the idiot Ontario Provincial Premier who wants to ban sushi bars, GPSs in vehicles (Till he found out they are installed in some cars) cell phones in cars period. and gud knows what else. How he got elected who knows.

Even one of his cabinet members drinks raw milk from the guy that got arrested. He is a perfect example of a politician gone power mad. The court found the farmer not guilty but good ole McGuinty took it to the Supremes.

He is a Liberal and a whinging fool. I could go on.

[TylerDurden]

UK prices for raw dairy are also delightfully low. I recall 1.50 UK pounds sterling  for 2 pints of raw milk as being the norm, there  - only Scotland forbids the sale of raw milk. The catch is that the UK raw dairy market is unregulated there, so that a lot of the raw dairy is actually lightly pasteurised by unscrupulous farmers(I believe a quote of 60% was suggested). I have been told, though, by raw-dairy-drinkers that it is relatively easy to determine  as to whether the dairy has been pasteurised or not.

Raw-al's point needs to be addressed, by the way. Whenever some odious government initiative comes around which bans or limits the sale of raw animal foods(or raw plant foods), we need to start screaming bloody murder via demonstrations or via writing letters/e-mails to our local politicians. I used to think that it was irrelevant that raw dairy-consumption was being targetted, since a lot of RVAFers were negatively affected by raw dairy, but I changed my mind once I read reports about the Florida State government also trying to ban the sale of raw oysters and the attempt by the top 5 French dairy corporations to allow pasteurised dairy to be labelled with the highest-level quality standard, normally only reserved for raw dairy.

The UK website which is most useful is the "TheyWorkForYou" alert system whereby one is alerted when one's local politician makes a comment in Parliament etc.

[raw-al]

The UK website which is most useful is the "TheyWorkForYou" alert system whereby one is alerted when one's local politician makes a comment in Parliament et

That's an excellent idea! Thanks for that one. I will mention that one to some people who may find that idea attractive.

[cherimoya_kid]

...problem is the idiot Ontario Provincial Premier who wants to ban sushi bars...

Human stupidity is infinite.

[HIT_it_RAW]

Detox is a funny word. It has been discussed here ad nauseum in different threads.

There is such a thing as a detox where you eat some crap for a long time and some of it sticks to your innards somewhere, for various reasons and then you consume something else or get off the sofa, or you "catch" a cold and suddenly all of that stuff gets disturbed, rather like a washing machine does to dirt. Then it all comes rushing out and during that rushing out, you feel very bad, then you feel better when it's out.

Unfortunately most people don't realize that, yes, you may be having a detox but it wasn't necessary to have it in the first place.

What you should do is figure out which foods agree with you. If you get a reaction that you don't like from a food that you eat regularly, try eliminating it from your diet for say a month and see how you feel. Then try eating it for awhile. If nothing changes from the stopping and then restarting then it is presumably safe.

Some foods may take a longer and some shorter.

For me (pasteurized dairy) the change was almost immediate and very powerful.
Suddenly, gas, bloating, backaches, prostate discomfort and urination problems, lethargy, and a host of other lactose intolerance issues vanished overnight. Then it was all back with the first glass of pasteurized dairy a month later.

Raw dairy is no problem. Heated honey is very bad news for me but raw is zero problem.

You can either experiment to find out or go to an Ayurvedic doctor to get a diagnosis of what foods are apropos for you. Some stuff is on the web however you should be careful with it.

I know about detoxes and how they manifest themselves. I also know how to test for allergies.

What I ment to ask whas do you still get detoxes say ones or twice a year. Even though your food is clean and healthy I think it is pretty much impossible to avoid any toxins in this world. Therefore one might expect a detox once in a while. The primal diet is very detoxifying. Aajonus reports detoxes from medecine taken as much as 20 years ago. He found traces of the medicines in the detox medium.

[raw-al]

My experience is that detoxes are for the most part BS.

There is no way of knowing if AVs detox stories are accurate. They may be.

Your body detoxes every time you defecate or urinate. Not every toxin that goes in stays in.

I do not have detoxes at all and I am very healthy.

I have a hard time believing that someone would be so bored as to search through their faeces, urine, sweat, snot, tears, farts and belly button fuzz to see if there are toxins that they have stored for a long time.

AVs detoxes are referred to as colds and flus by most folks and they can be quite easily prevented by not force feeding yourself stuff that makes you sick in the first place.

When you force feed yourself stuff that aggravates you, your body puts up with it briefly depending on how strong it is, or how strong the poor food choices affect your physiology, but it's like a bucket of water. When you fill it up with water eventually it will overflow.

Overflow is detox. It's your bodies way of saying OK if you want to feed me that crap, I'll show you who is boss. Repeatedly doing this will weaken your immune system and who wants to put up with a periodic cold anyways.

Aajonus is just not aware of this. He has told himself a story so many times that he believes it.

[freezerburn]

What do you mean by cosmetic?

You know, not to be eaten;) LOL

[achillezzz]

Raw al I must say that I completely agree with everything you just said about detoxification. But We must not forget that there are toxins that get past our intestines! Toxins and other metabolic waste that gets deep to our tissue from years of overeating crap accompanied by one of the most oldest and anabolic hormones insulin.. Insulin effect is so strong it will bind literally anything you can think of to our "divine" human tissue.. That's why people that clean their intestines and go keto might experience further detox when their bodies "Pull" the metabolic waste products from their tissues (it's when nausea starts in me usually) and then dumps it all into the intestines. there are even more chapters to this detox can occur in micro cellular level but for this I have not stumbled upon hard data to back it up.

[achillezzz]

Also exercise with it's increased blood flow effect to our joints clean them from all kinds of organic waste that make the joints stiff at the first place.. of course years of keto diet will allow the body to do it by itself but exercise will do it faster! I find it quiet amazing how keto diets really allow the body to take all the blood from musculature systems and invest it into the elimination organs that really detox us from inside all kinds of enzyme activity that starts immediately releasing toxins from the fat tissue sending it to the skin pathways causing acne which is a good thing because if it would all go through one place like you describe the intestines this would get stressed fast there are many ways to push shit out.

[raw-al]

achillezzz,

I absolutely agree that your body detoxes stuff and that if you eat a better selection of foods and exercise that "stuff" will come out of hibernation.

In the Ayurvedic system you are encouraged to do a specific cleansing at the end of every season. You can do a simple or a complicated one. These are a good idea especially is someone is sedentary as you suggested.

My objection and it could very well be that I overstated it, because I see the word detox bandied around when people consider getting sick is like detoxing.

Having a cold for instance will dump a lot of old stuff from your system no doubt. But why eat improperly in the first place.

If you are eating an appropriate diet then you will take on less toxicity and your immune system will be strengthened which will naturally force out old stuff. Our bodies are designed for that and will willingly do it if we allow it to.

A friend of mine is a Vaidya (Ayurvedic physician) They had a patient come into the clinic in a wheelchair with MS. She did a PK treatment (clinically conducted detox) that lasted about three months and when she left the clinic she was able to dance meaning very graceful and mobile. Not sure if all patients have this report, as three months treatment wouldn't be cheap, but that is what detoxing is capable of doing.

If the money in hospitals was spent on these types of things medical costs would plummet. People have no idea what's good for them.