Why the Milk Diet Worked for Me and Could Work for You

[zeno]

I did the Milk Diet for about a month or so and felt better than I ever did on a diet based primarily in raw animal foods and not until now have I determined that it is because a diet of mostly raw meat has led to some terrible form of starvation.

In a guest post on The Nourished Life Matt Stone discusses the Milk Diet and why it works--especially if you are starving yourself. There is so much valuable information in this post about the root cause of eating disorders, dieting, starvation and obesity.

In the article Stone discusses leptin and how problems with leptin in the body can lead to all sorts of troubles and how the Milk Diet alleviates many of these issues because milk is "nutritionally super-abundant" and the diet promotes rest and relaxation and also consumption beyond one's appetite in order to heal by exercising the digestive system through exercise.

I highly recommend that you read about the Milk Diet and the Miracle of Milk (available on the previous website) or Milk Diet as a Remedy for Chronic Disease (Porter).

This is a warning to those who are experiencing difficulty with this lifestyle and also for the inexperienced: Don't starve yourself because others demonize dairy, grains, or tubers! You may not be ready to thrive on a diet that consists of predominantly meat. Listen to your body. Even though it may seem crazy that you are craving that cheese or ice cream, it probably is occurring for a good reason.

[cherimoya_kid]

I bet TylerDurden has some thoughts on this. ROFL

[goodsamaritan]

As part of my 10 year old boy's healing process, I put him on a raw milk diet for some 3 weeks. (this was just a few months ago)

I was able to achieve repair of his injured colon and got firm solid brown stools. (from blackish from a seemingly damaged colon)

We used a single dairy cow, just that 1 cow in the mountains and organically fed.

We ended the raw milk diet when he suddenly became constipated because of the milk.

We went back to rawish paleo diet.

[KD]

yeah I would hold off on this. And by this I mean, promoting things you read that make sense to you that you havn't applied 100% for some stretch of time. Afterall, from what i gather, isn't this in some sense his critique of many paleo-type blogs?

[TylerDurden]

Matt Stone is the author of that truly insane "high-everything diet", so has no credibility. Stuffing oneself with vast amounts of nutrients merely overloads the body over time. One thing many people have noticed is that over-eating forces the body to concentrate its resources on digestion rather than diverting those resources towards healing.

As regards the Milk Diet, I gather that a lot of people get problems on it if they consume only raw dairy for a long time. I doubt that eating more than 50% raw dairy products in one's diet is ultimately healthy either, long-term, even for those who do well on raw dairy.

[zeno]

yeah I would hold off on this. And by this I mean, promoting things you read that make sense to you that you havn't applied 100% for some stretch of time.

I do not mean to promote this diet as a permanent dietary choice. As GS illustrates, there is a time and place to use tools such as dairy. I merely would like to promote the use of dairy for its curative effects that I enjoyed. Moreover, the point I wanted to illustrate is not necessarily that the Milk Diet is right whereas a Raw Paleo Diet is wrong, but rather, that some people could be unprepared for a diet primarily consisting of animal foods which will result in starvation due to restricted carbohydrate intake.

Perhaps a Raw Paleo Diet is an ideal diet as KD and Sabertooth both have demonstrated with their success but some people require deep healing to get to that point in their life. I'm not sure. All I know is that I'm dead fucking hungry for carbohydrates and can't stand it. How I can find a way to incorporate more carbohydrates into my diet is my task at hand. I wish to express that this task is difficult when people broadly criticize the use of raw dairy because of their experience when some people may be at the specific point in their development to incorporate raw dairy. Are we not on all on a journey? Can we not say the same for our health and nutrition? Our paths are unique and our points along this path are too. In this manner I wish to promote raw dairy for those who do not know of it's value and will never know because it is dogmatically rejected.

[zeno]

One thing many people have noticed is that over-eating forces the body to concentrate its resources on digestion rather than diverting those resources towards healing.

True, but when the developed world is experiencing an obesity epidemic due to starvation I would argue that this is better than some of the other tactics that have been promoted here, such as starving the body of carbohydrates.

I personally was a wreck when I didn't feed my body with carbohydrates.

I doubt that eating more than 50% raw dairy products in one's diet is ultimately healthy either, long-term, even for those who do well on raw dairy.

Tell that to Mongolian tribes who rely on yaks for their milk. From what I understand milk is a staple of their diet that consists of 50% of their daily nutrition. Perhaps this isn't ideal for them, but this is how they've adapted to their present situation.

[ys]

Some people do great on raw milk.  They might be in minority but it just works for them.  Raw milk works great for Yuri.

[zeno]

Is that what Yuri has been experimenting with since his last update in the past?

[KD]

Theres just plain innacuries or speculations with what you are saying tho, or, are even things I might agree with but are not exactly facts like you suggest.

Like the obsesity is due to malnutrition thing.

+ for some, the raw paleo diet is not mostly animal foods or low carb.

I mean, define leptin..really...

Yeah and then there is me..always presenting the purist 100% paleo/raw/LC aproach....*facepalm*
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/not-all-dieticians-are-as-anti-paleo-as-i-previously-believed/msg62138/#msg62138

I wonder what everyone in that thread is now up to...

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I don't think you are wrong with your choices (I don't know), I just think you should experitment more and/or flesh out your argument, as obviously your post is antagonistic, not backed up with much other than someone elses' opinions, and not totally fair to what people actually recommend.

[zeno]

Theres just plain innacuries or speculations with what you are saying tho, or, are even things I might agree with but are not exactly facts like you suggest.

True. I'm not implying anything that I've said is fact, though. My experience with starvation is just my own and I merely wish to discuss this as a possibility for others that might experiencing difficulty with this lifestyle.

I think my main qualm is that I foolishly perceived myself prepared to starve myself of carbohydrates and try to survive on mostly animal foods (my first mistake, given my state) and then do so without a consistent variety (my second mistake [this was mainly due to access, though, and not choice])

I don't think you are wrong with your choices (I don't know), I just think you should experitment more and/or flesh out your argument, as obviously your post is antagonistic, not backed up with much other than someone elses' opinions, and not totally fair to what people actually recommend.

My post is antagonistic. Perhaps everyone understands the value of variety and carbohydrates, but I didn't and this was a painful lesson to learn. I'd rather others be spared of my mistake. (Of course this was of my own accord, but) I allowed myself to become fearful of consuming certain foods even though I experienced explicit signs of depletion and weakness, very similar to my experience as a vegetarian. The only difference between vegetarianism and my present way of eating is that rather than depleting myself of animal foods I've began to starve myself of carbohydrates. Fundamentally the same mistake just different trappings. I thought I might be able to just eat whole animals and be just fine, but I need more and now I have to figure out what that is.

Also, I wouldn't say that my post is backed up with someone else's opinion. My intention was to use Stone's article as a source to defend the use of milk and the Milk Diet.

Lastly, I don't think I'm making much of an argument so much as I'm trying to raise awareness--as the title of this thread suggests.

[TylerDurden]

The Mongolian diet involves a lot of meat as well, and, given modern foods etc., I seriously doubt that they consume 50%+ of their diet in the form of dairy. And in the extreme unlikelihood that they do, I doubt they are healthy.

[zeno]

As for me, I'm not sure how to achieve a better balance but I believe this will entail a regular portion of dairy daily. One of my major problems is access, but I'm trying not to attribute my difficulties to an externality.

[zeno]

If I were to make any sort of argument in defense of milk, it is that milk is a whole food. We can't deny that as mammals milk is the only source of nutrition during the beginning of our lives. Granted the milk of cows and goats is not identical to human beast milk but it is of similar value nutritionally.

[Brady]

Well done Zeno, fortune favours the brave!

[ys]

Is that what Yuri has been experimenting with since his last update in the past?

That's his staple right now.

[Pistons]

Hi.

I haven't posted here before but have followed the conversation about dairy with much interest over several months. After much experimenting myself I know I do better with some dairy and carbohydrate in my diet. In his book "Optimal Nutrition" Jan Kwasniewski makes the point that it is best to try to consume about 0.8 grams of carbohydrates per kg of body weight per day. He states, "Some tissues absolutely need carbohydrates, so they must be supplied. If a body doesn't receive them in food it has to produce them itself, most often from protein. It is, however, an energy-intensive process and unnecessary" and "A shortage of carbohydrates in the diet sometimesresults in urges to eat something sweet. The same cause sometimes leads to leg cramps, especially at night." (This was my experience). Schultz & Allan in the book "Life Without Bread" also caution against total removal of carbohydrates from the diet.

Based on what I read in this forum I tried eradicating dairy from my diet for a while. I found I did poorly and overate meat. I even found that I did not do well just eating butter and no other dairy. I tend to feel that I at least need some lactose in my diet, whilst acknowledging that each person must find what suits him/her.

My concern is that this forum should be about seeking and obtaining optimal health, not pushing and adhering strictly to idealogical viewpoints.

John L

[KD]

Now you've gone ahead and left a giant window for people to say "hell if he had just eaten variety and more carbohydrates he wouldn't have any problems". I really hope this isn't the message you want to present, seeing since it hasn't solved any of your issues yet. Carbs may be the answer, but this is totally false within this context as 'the' problem. You do seem, at one point, to touch on your actual problem, which many high and low carb dieters do in fact share. The issue is being a zealot, and the proof of it lingering is you are willing to post about 8 differnt things you just read as solutions to yours and others health problems. Others maybe just claim the optimal human diet, even in the face of other information or results, and don't dip to as many dietary extremes. Or maybe some, because their diet actually is flush with fueling all their needs, and isn't creating other issues, they actually do really well.

If you want me to point you to the next few websites you'll probably be following after that one, let me know. Like in 6 months of eating pancakes, maybe you will be like "Theres this other guy who seems healthy says you only have to work 4 hours a week and the problem is how fast carbs are, and if you eat "slow carbs" then I won't have x,y,and z problems I have developed since I've been doing this high carb mod fat low protein omni diet, after I fixed those other issues when I stopped eating like a stupid caveman." Then you are back full circle eating beans, rice and tofu.

So yeah, maybe the problem, like many people, is just doing a diet based on a bunch of theories, then making a bunch of claims about how other shit doesn't work, and prior to the new things actually yieliding any real benefits, or being aware of any possible problems this new perfect solution might have.

or, like I said, maybe you could try things out, read a bunch of books, develop your theories over time, and then throw some hints around from time to time...

[zeno]

Then you are back full circle eating beans, rice and tofu.

Ha-ha-ha! Too good.

So yeah, maybe the problem, like many people, is just doing a diet based on a bunch of theories, then making a bunch of claims about how other shit doesn't work, and prior to the new things actually yieliding any real benefits, or being aware of any possible problems this new perfect solution might have.

or, like I said, maybe you could try things out, read a bunch of books, develop your theories over time, and then throw some hints around from time to time...

Damn you and your wisdom! 

"A shortage of carbohydrates in the diet sometimesresults in urges to eat something sweet. The same cause sometimes leads to leg cramps, especially at night." (This was my experience). Schultz & Allan in the book "Life Without Bread" also caution against total removal of carbohydrates from the diet.

Strange--not after I ate an entire eight ounce jar of jam did I feel satisfied for lunch. And last night I awoke in the middle of the night and drank nearly a quart of pomegranate juice before I felt sated and could fall asleep once again.

[CitrusHigh]

The Mongolian diet involves a lot of meat as well, and, given modern foods etc., I seriously doubt that they consume 50%+ of their diet in the form of dairy. And in the extreme unlikelihood that they do, I doubt they are healthy.

I just read a study about them recently saying that they only drink milk for like 3 months out of the year. The rest of the time they don't and the yaks are pregnant. The article was about hormones in milk due to the milking of pregnant cows, especially in late term. But one of the points made is that these people are healthier (supposedly) because they don't consume as much milk and don't drink pregnancy milk. For whatever that's worth.

[zeno]

Now you've gone ahead and left a giant window for people to say "hell if he had just eaten variety and more carbohydrates he wouldn't have any problems". I really hope this isn't the message you want to present, seeing since it hasn't solved any of your issues yet. Carbs may be the answer, but this is totally false within this context as 'the' problem.

True, but where does one fight a good source of carbohydrates that are raw and appetizing according to this way of eating? Trying to eat locally restricts most sources for carbohydrates. Milk is one of the few viable options regardless of location (to some extent).

The issue is being a zealot, and the proof of it lingering is you are willing to post about 8 different things you just read as solutions to yours and others health problems.

Great! Now I just need to find the diet that can fix fanaticism!   

Anyway, I think I'm just going to resolve like Matt Stone to eat whatever the hell I want for a while. I haven't been able to go near a piece of red meat for the past two days. I'm hoping eventually I'll be able to break this and learn from this experience.

[KD]

The biggest common diet faux-pas is probably to dismiss the idea that we need not only easy abundant energy/fuel but likely animal proteins and saturated fats and various vitamins and minerals and such. Some that are actually more rare in our current natural world to swear off too many foods. Acknowledging that even mediocre quality usually works to some degree. But people often just don't even get those things because they arn't in the form of 'vegan', 'paleo' 'LC' etc... Or yeah when people want to totally make up constructs of how we are supposed to eat. This splinters into tons of other debates. Processed vs raw, consequences of this or that, many of which have points on either end but are ignored on both sides due to zealotry.

But these things have complex variables, which is why you have people and gurus doing a variety of things and none of them being consistent ideal templates for all, or really very few beating out the Twinkie guy or McDonalds guy in leaps and bounds. Then some people say they have no template and eat all natural but having any understanding of physiology and eating,  or understanding that these things always have their own blatantly destructive rules and dogmas, doesn't bode well for that either IMO.

I think alot of this just ties in with the other thread. Eating a nutrient rich diet + abundant energy sources can beat out an uplatable, nutrient sparse diet that avoids both nutrients and constant energy all under the umbrella of quality, or 'natural-ness' or whatever. Having a stable workable diet for basic living or healing is likely a pre-requite before making sure your diet avoids bad stuff. Add to that most people feel fantastic in the early stages of every diet change and then have the tendency to stick to things due to the same dogmas even through obvious problems. But other than that, maybe raw or paleo doesn't have these problems that the critics themselves over-zealously claim. Or, perhaps some people do need to remove 'bad stuff' before making any progress . Its hard to making sweeping statements about which is most important. Thats totally another splinter argument.

[goodsamaritan]

True, but where does one fight a good source of carbohydrates that are raw and appetizing according to this way of eating? Trying to eat locally restricts most sources for carbohydrates. Milk is one of the few viable options regardless of location (to some extent).

I once had raw starch cravings.  I found it in Singkamas / Mexican turnip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachyrhizus_erosus

and Yacon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yac%C3%B3n

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I for one congratulate you on your success in raw milk. 

My son was also successful in his short stint on raw milk to heal an internal injury.

I was not successful with raw milk as I just keep farting.  Even in my latest experiment with it.

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People forget that this is the PRIMAL diet section where Raw Milk is a part of the diet.

[KD]

so you mean you mean you had a starch craving, and you chose to research (like on the the internet) and select a starch that was both raw and paleo, instead of eating a bunch of cooked plantains or something, which any wild human (or likely wild animal) would pounce at, and probably use yacon as some kind of topical ointment.

same kind of stuff as above

at least the PD in all its extreme rawness, has somewhat less pretentiousness when satisfying ones instincts. Like that lady who wanted ice cream, AV had make her own ice cream and eat as much as she wanted. The ingredients were something like........drumroll........eggs, honey..and milk, maybe with some fruit or something. So unhealthy! Now, if one was vegan, or paleo, and they craved ice cream, they could go eat some peaches or something...as it totally works that way! not. Except people are generally satisfied in some sense by downing fruit. That much I can say. Maybe some more causal extremist dieter would even freeze the peaches and make a sorbet with a blender. But seeing since milk, eggs and honey actually provide a full spectrum of complex nutrients...even some difficult to get in a diet of mostly fruits and muscle meats and fish (due to the minerals and whole proteins in the milk). So, clearly no fruit nor meat, nut, or fish truly satisfies these kinds of cravings (without deep tissues, bones, and organs and such..which then lack the creamy and sugary part).

[goodsamaritan]

so you mean you mean you had a starch craving, and you chose to research (like on the the internet) and select a starch that was both raw and paleo, instead of eating a bunch of cooked plantains or something,

Yup... I asked a lot about raw starches and raw vegetables in this forum.