Author Topic: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate  (Read 81896 times)

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Offline nummi

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2014, 02:58:10 pm »
"There's also the possibility of ferments not doing so well because they need an aerobic environment,"  l) Uh? Nice vocab. lol

"I wonder what it would be like if it was hung as it would be to make aged meat, only in conditions that would make high meat (ie. the temperature). " Oh my GOD! Way to butcher the English language. lol.   l)
Nice immaturity... You are obviously a troll. If not then come back once you've fixed your issues.

Offline Hanna

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #76 on: January 27, 2014, 07:05:11 pm »
Hi Phil,
I have some raw chufas at home. They are delicious! However, one needs strong teeth to chew them.
I like soaked lentils and when peas are in season, I eat a lot of green peas. I like jicama (Bengkoang) too. And I have always loved lucuma!

Do vegetables such as belgian endive, broccoli, fennel etc. contain resistant starch?

Offline Inger

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #77 on: January 28, 2014, 04:52:59 pm »
Hanna, raw nuts are a great choice for RS, if you did not know. Raw cocoa too  :)
Those are my choice.... But the nuts need to be real good quality for sure! I only trust Orkos...

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #78 on: January 28, 2014, 08:22:26 pm »
Hi Phil,
I have some raw chufas at home. They are delicious! However, one needs strong teeth to chew them.
Some people juice them to make a drink.

Quote
Do vegetables such as belgian endive, broccoli, fennel etc. contain resistant starch?
My guess would be not much, but they would contain much more of other beneficial prebiotics.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Hanna

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #79 on: January 29, 2014, 04:08:33 pm »
Hanna, raw nuts are a great choice for RS, if you did not know. Raw cocoa too  :)

I didn't know that. Well, nuts are one of my (many!) staples anyway.
Phil, why didn't you mention nuts? :-) They are certainly the easiest way to get one's share of resistant starch.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #80 on: January 29, 2014, 05:33:15 pm »
I didn't know that. Well, nuts are one of my (many!) staples anyway.
Phil, why didn't you mention nuts? :-) They are certainly the easiest way to get one's share of resistant starch.


Which nuts?
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Offline Hanna

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #81 on: January 30, 2014, 03:17:54 am »
You mean, which nuts I eat?
Walnuts (my favorite nuts, as long as they are not too old), almonds, macadamia nuts, Brazil nuts, for example.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #82 on: January 30, 2014, 08:24:28 pm »
I didn't know that. Well, nuts are one of my (many!) staples anyway.
Phil, why didn't you mention nuts? :-) They are certainly the easiest way to get one's share of resistant starch.
I did. I earlier provided a link to a long list that includes nuts at http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/fantastic-health-benefits-of-butyrate-6649/msg117106/#msg117106 It has cashews, chestnuts (the European tree nut variety) and pistachios. I was just providing some more examples that are edible raw that I happened to come across.

The list includes many foods that are typically cooked, so I didn't paste it directly into the post (and it's in pdf form) and I've been keeping my eye out for ones that are edible raw. You've given me an idea to start accumulating a list dedicated solely to those foods.

Why do you say that nuts are the easiest way to get RS? Don't they take a bit of work to remove them from the shells, and isn't their RS content not the highest, according to the list?

I think GS meant which of the nuts are the easiest way to get RS, presumably the ones with the highest RS content, yes? I'm curious about that too.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Iguana

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #83 on: January 30, 2014, 08:58:49 pm »
Cashews, chestnuts and pistachios are very tasty.

- Cashews are usually shelled by burning their shell, so they have been overheated. I've got some having been shelled without heat. 
- Pistachios are often liked by "instinctos" and I  eat it when I can obtain some raw ones. But they are small and, as you say it means a good amount of work for little food...
- Chestnuts are one of my favorite food, cheap and easily available or even gathered for free in the forests. They must be stored at ambiant temperature for at least 3 weeks before becoming palatable.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Hanna

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #84 on: February 03, 2014, 06:05:12 pm »

Why do you say that nuts are the easiest way to get RS? Don't they take a bit of work to remove them from the shells

Certainly it takes less work to shell nuts than to hunt, for example, an animal. Even crows and other birds manage to shell nuts. My friends in childhood managed to shell walnuts (my favorite nut) with their bare hands. I preferred tools...

Offline Iguana

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #85 on: February 03, 2014, 07:22:48 pm »
Hehe! Absolutely true! As I said, it easier to get a plant than an animal because plants don't run away when you try to catch them.  ;)

And animals must not only be hunted, but also skinned which is quite a lot of work. If you don't have a good knife and the necessary skill, it's even harder. That's why our anthropoid ancestors most likely scavenged carcasses and bones left by predators. They even also probably used to chase predators away from their catch, assaulting them in bands armed with stones and sticks. 
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #86 on: February 03, 2014, 08:23:49 pm »
Certainly it takes less work to shell nuts than to hunt, for example, an animal. Even crows and other birds manage to shell nuts. My friends in childhood managed to shell walnuts (my favorite nut) with their bare hands. I preferred tools...
There are other easier to obtain and open sources of resistant starch that contain much, much more of it than the nuts you listed, such as green plantains. Check the list I linked to. Unfortunately, most of the foods on the list are cooked, so you have to weed through them to find the raw ones. Make sure to get resistant starch one way or another.

You and Iguana do have the right idea, that optimally we should be eating more plants than animals, especially plants high in prebiotics.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #87 on: February 04, 2014, 08:54:07 am »
You and Iguana do have the right idea, that optimally we should be eating more plants than animals, especially plants high in prebiotics.

As Inger stated, you have to follow the seasons.

I can still remember the LOL I had when Inger said in the height of winter in Scandinavian countries that the plants are frozen in ice!  Raw ZC is ideal for that season in her area.

Then again, I'm thinking of those stored nuts they say squirrels do.  I wonder if Inger has tried storing nuts or eating nuts while it is winter.
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Offline Iguana

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #88 on: February 04, 2014, 04:10:12 pm »
As Inger stated, you have to follow the seasons.

You may do it when you’re wholly healthy. But most people are more or less sick and thus unable to eat raw within a very limited food range. The broadest their food choice is, the most easy it is for them to switch to and remain on raw paleo diet.   

Quote
I can still remember the LOL I had when Inger said in the height of winter in Scandinavian countries that the plants are frozen in ice!  Raw ZC is ideal for that season in her area.

Again, for those able to handle that!
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #89 on: March 03, 2014, 12:16:17 am »
Some of the more open minded VLCers have experimented with butyrate-generating RS and reported benefits. The latest one is Tom Naughton, maker of the Fathead movie, who was skeptical of resistant starch at first, until he looked into it more deeply and was impressed by the research. He gave it a try (in his case, he went with the easy option of just adding some raw potato starch to his diet, but that's not the only way to get resistant starch), and he reported his success on Jimmy Moore's  most recent Low Carb Conversations podcast.
Quote
http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/lcc-episode-100-celebrating-our-historic-100th-episode-with-a-dozen-all-star-guest-friends/22181

Starting at 1:29:16 Tom Naughton's vote for most impactful health headline of 2013 went to resistant starch (namely, Richard Nikoley's headline “A Resistant Starch Primer For Newbies”).

Richard cited research that Tom found more convincing that the one bad study Tom had seen in the past.

Jimmy Moore said he wants to do an n=1 with RS.

Since consuming potato starch, Tom's blood sugar has been lower and it doesn't spike nearly as much after rice.

Interestingly, lots of people have been reporting that RS resolves the problems people commonly report with VLC diets.

Tom reported that his body temp measurements rose from the 97's to 98.4 with RS.
I experienced the same benefits with blood glucose and body temperature that Tom reported.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #90 on: March 04, 2014, 08:25:30 am »
Quote
Resistant Starch – a concise guide to the biohack of the decade

Resistant Starch (RS for short)  is being called the biohack of the decade and with good reason. The majority of people experimenting with it are reporting dramatic improvements in well-being across a number of measures.

Briefly the primary benefits seen are:

Improved blood glucose & metabolism
Improved sleep and “movie-like” vivid dreams
Enhanced energy, mood and well-being
Improved digestion and bowel movements

....

http://www.gestaltreality.com/2014/02/27/resistant-starch-a-concise-guide/
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #91 on: March 27, 2014, 07:16:41 am »
Beautiful Butyrate from Raw Paleo Potatoes:
Quote
Excerpts from The pros and cons of munching on raw potatoes

QUESTION: I grew up on a farm in Minnesota, and I always used to like eating raw potatoes like apples. I still like them better raw than cooked, with a little salt on them. My mother always said they were healthier that way. Was she right?

– RLL, via e-mail

ANSWER: Although not a common component in the American diet, the eating of raw potatoes has footing in some family traditions. There are some considerations and interesting science regarding eating them this way.

...fermentation of resistant starches increases the production of butyrate, a fatty acid that is associated with favorable effects on diseases in the colon.

... The bottom line is that if you want to eat raw potatoes, aside from peeling them, look for fresh, unblemished, unsprouted potatoes with no hint of green. If you have a choice, opt for potatoes that are grown organically.

There is a complete list of potato nutrients at tinyurl.com/dyerf5. This list represents the nutrients in the raw potato. Cooked potatoes have less vitamin C, thiamine and riboflavin. When eating cooked potatoes, include the skin if you can.

See more here, including warnings on what to avoid: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2009/Aug/05/1f5focusm195324-pros-and-cons-munching-raw-potatoe/
My favorite raw potatoes are organic fingerlings, such as Purple Peruvian potatoes and yellow Russian Banana potatoes. They are less modified by humans than more common ones like Russet potatoes, which are my least favorite that I've tried so far (they cause burning in my mouth and throat). Of course, not everyone will like heritage (aka "gourmet") raw potatoes, especially if they didn't grown up eating them, and particularly if they also didn't grow up eating lots of cooked potatoes.

Here's another even more positive updated take on RS by Mark Sisson than his last one:
Quote
The Definitive Guide to Resistant Starch
by Mark Sisson
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-definitive-guide-to-resistant-starch/#axzz2x6yHSuIv
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #92 on: May 05, 2014, 10:38:16 am »
Im still not very clear on precisely what is RS. Is it just a catch all praise that includes all plant starches that are resistant to being broken down in the small intestines? 

The list on the link seems to be centered around grains, starchy roots,  plantains and legumes.

Are there differences between the indigestible fiber of Plantains to that of coconut, or other tree nuts and seeds?

I have eaten bits of raw sun-chokes, and other RS foods but it seems if I eat more than just a little I get very bloaty. This is in regards to all starchy foods in general seeds, nuts, roots, grains ect.

Even raw coconut if I eat more than a little will have the same effect, which is why I eat coconut butter, for some reason dehydrated coconut is not an issue with me.

Prehaps there are enzyme inhibitors with some RS foods which have to either be cooked, soaked, fermented, or dehydrated before the bacteria flora of the gut can utilize them.

There must be antibacterial properties of RS foods which make them resistant to being broken down enigmatically in their Raw state.

Perhaps with continued ingestion of RS the gut does begin to build up the bacterial flora and enzymatic production required to assimilate such foods?

 There has to be a number of other factors to explain why some people can eat extremely large amounts of these foods without an issue, while others have a bad reaction to very small amounts.
Sorry I missed these questions, Sabertooth. I just stumbled on them while looking for something.

Yes, resistant starch is just what the name says--starch that is resistant to digestion and most of it makes it undigested to the colon, where bacteria digest it in a person (or animal) with a healthy GI microbiome.

The majority of the resistant starch in coconut is in the heart of the tree itself--"from the topmost section of the coconut trunk" (http://www.marketmanila.com/archives/ubod-heart-of-coconut-palm-2). The food from this is called ubod in the Philippines (aka palm pith, palm hearts, sago, palm cabbage, ubod). I think GoodSamaritan posted about it somewhere, but I can't find that now.

The closest thing in the USA is raw jarred peach palm hearts with a flavor reminiscent of pickled artichokes, such as these: http://www.melissas.com/Hearts-of-Palm-p/94.htm

Palm hearts were one of the main starchy foods in Eastern Asia before rice agriculture came to dominate.

Sun chokes are rich in inulin, another prebiotic, not resistant starch, and sun chokes are not starchy.

RS is technically not antibacterial, it is a prebiotic that feeds bacteria, most of them beneficial, though it can carry pathogenic bacteria out of the gut, as most of them cannot feed on it but try to anyway.

Quote
Perhaps with continued ingestion of RS the gut does begin to build up the bacterial flora and enzymatic production required to assimilate such foods?
Yes

Quote
There has to be a number of other factors to explain why some people can eat extremely large amounts of these foods without an issue, while others have a bad reaction to very small amounts.
You basically guessed what is probably the main one - that those who get short-term problems from RS don't have enough of the good bacteria to handle it. The problems often resolve over time as people build up a healthy GI microbiome.

Hope that helps.

Margareta Lundström, one of the founding mothers of the Swedish LCHF-movement, reported amazing results from resistant starch: http://freetheanimal.com/2014/05/resistant-revolution-community.html

As I said somewhere before, I don't recall where, resistant starch and prebiotics are going to revolutionize "Paleo". It's a game changer.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline van

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #93 on: May 06, 2014, 06:05:14 am »
I still would love to see any 'thing' that says pieces of raw kale or corn or any vegetable that makes it out your anus isn't RS.   The thought here is that we don't digest/breakdown  a lot of the starchy foods we eat period.  Whether or not they are RS, they do enter the colon as particles or pieces and feed starch/sugar feeding bacteria.  So If this is true, Raw vegans who eat absolutely No officially prescribed RS would have similar colonies of bacteria of those specifically eating RS labeled foods.   Please show me where my thinking is astray,, thanks.   

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #94 on: May 06, 2014, 08:13:18 am »
I still would love to see any 'thing' that says pieces of raw kale or corn or any vegetable that makes it out your anus isn't RS.
That would be a waste of time. No credible expert, nor even credible critic, claims that raw kale is a substantial source of RS. It would be like asking for proof that the moon is not made of cheese. It's not a credible claim.

Corn does contain RS, but I don't know of anyone who recommends eating it raw fresh from the cob without first nixtamalizing or fermenting it.

Quote
The thought here is that we don't digest/breakdown  a lot of the starchy foods we eat period.  Whether or not they are RS, they do enter the colon as particles or pieces and feed starch/sugar feeding bacteria.
RS is not a sugar, it's a special type of starch that gets converted into butyrate (fat) via bacteria.

Quote
So If this is true, Raw vegans who eat absolutely No officially prescribed RS would have similar colonies of bacteria of those specifically eating RS labeled foods.   Please show me where my thinking is astray,, thanks.
I don't know what your point is with that notion, unless by "similar" you mean somewhat similar and yet significantly different in important ways, some of which we probably don't yet understand. You seem to just be guessing. It is possible to get butyrate from other prebiotics like inulin, which are also beneficial, but I have not seen any scientists claim that the resulting bacterial populations of eating just inulin vs. just RS would be exactly the same, nor have I seen any claim that one would benefit by avoiding RS and only eating other prebiotics instead of including RS in a wide variety of prebiotics, nor that kale is a significant source of RS. If you would like to be the first to make those claims in a science journal, you could try, though they would ask for evidence. Plus, the different prebiotics offer synergistic effects, as I mentioned before in this thread, due to cross-feeding bacteria, so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. It's not about one vs. the other, it's about consuming a wide variety of prebiotics. Jeff Leach of the American Gut Project discusses this at his website. http://humanfoodproject.com/

If you really are interested in learning more about prebiotics, probiotics and the Old Friends Hypothesis, then I highly recommend checking out Jeff's writings and also those of Tatertot Tim Steele at Mark's Daily Apple forum https://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread73514.html and Tim and Richard Nikoley at the Free the Animal blog http://freetheanimal.com/2013/12/resistant-primer-newbies.html and Prof. Graham Rook http://www.grahamrook.net/Oldfriends/

---

Sidebar: Of course, even a positive game changer like the Old Friends Hypothesis can be taken to crazy extremes, like I've seen some people do with this and everything else. It never appealed to me to consume RS only in the form of potato starch long term, such as just to stay VLC, nor in huge quantities every day. It especially doesn't make sense to me to do what some people do and continue to take PS every day despite negative symptoms like joint pains. PS is not a panacea miracle cure for everything and more is not always better.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 09:52:46 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline van

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #95 on: May 08, 2014, 10:01:54 pm »
I have gone to the sights you've included.  My point is that it seems more than logical that there' enough sugar and starches in a whole foods diet that doesn't get broken down and gets emptied into the colon.   And whether or not it's RS or not, the fact is that there's starch and sugar there then for all kinds of bacteria to feed on and thrive.    No one has shown me that this special RS starch ( starch that is resisitant to digestion ) is the only starch that will feed those bacteria that produce butyrate in the colon.  I don't know how to make this more clear. 

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #96 on: May 08, 2014, 10:17:20 pm »
Corn does contain RS, but I don't know of anyone who recommends eating it raw fresh from the cob without first nixtamalizing or fermenting it.

Our markets sell very young corn.

Mature organic corn is eaten raw fresh as you pluck them.  Our organic farmer had us taste his corn that way, it was pretty good.
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Offline raw-al

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #97 on: May 09, 2014, 03:27:46 am »
Our markets sell very young corn.

Mature organic corn is eaten raw fresh as you pluck them.  Our organic farmer had us taste his corn that way, it was pretty good.

It's amazing why PPL ruin corn by cooking it.
Cheers
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Offline raw-al

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #98 on: May 09, 2014, 03:35:33 am »
Iguana,

Recently I saw a horse chestnut tree which I thought was a chestnut tree. The PPL offered me all the nuts I wanted but they said that it was a horse chestnut and so the nuts were mildly poisonous. Sure enouh Wackipeia agrees :
"The nuts, especially those that are young and fresh, are slightly poisonous, containing alkaloid saponins and glucosides. Although not dangerous to touch, they cause sickness when eaten; consumed by horses, they can cause tremors and lack of coordination.[6] Some mammals, notably deer, are able to break down the toxins and eat them safely.[citation needed]"

So how do you know the difference between chestnuts and horse chestnuts?
Cheers
Al

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« Reply #99 on: May 09, 2014, 05:19:09 am »
By asking an expert and looking at a tree guide, such as this one:

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=189
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

 

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