Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate

[raw-al]

PP,
Here is two pics. I do not see a difference.

[edmon171]

What is the advantage of butyrate from RS over BHB from being in ketosis? Doesn't LCHF provide exactly the same benefits?

[PaleoPhil]

PP,
Here is two pics. I do not see a difference.

In using tree/plant guides, you don't look at just the nuts. You compare/contrast other things too, like the leaves. I also suggested asking an expert (preferably a local one familiar with the local plants, though Green Deane and our own Eric are some good Internet resources), to make sure you don't make any mistakes when eating wild foods.

Even the nuts/seeds are quite visibly different, as shown in these articles:
http://tree-species.blogspot.com/2009/03/edible-chestnuts-vs-horse-chestnuts.html
http://www.kitchentravels.com/2012/02/foraging-roasting-fresh-chestnuts.html
http://www.eattheweeds.com/newsletter-25-dec-2012

Toxic horse chestnuts:



Edible chestnuts:



You may have posted two images of horsechestnuts. Neither of them looks like the edible chestnuts sold in markets.

Edible wild American chestnuts are rare due to chestnut blight in the early 20th century. Most of the surviving trees are reportedly hybrids with foreign species. It's probably best to start out with chestnuts purchased at a market. One of my local markets sells edible in-the-shell chestnuts while in season.

BTW, chestnuts are higher in RS than most nuts.

What is the advantage of butyrate from RS over BHB from being in ketosis? Doesn't LCHF provide exactly the same benefits?

I asked the same sorts of questions early in the thread. Muhammad Sunshine set me straight on it. When I researched it, I found the scientific evidence supporting what he said. Then when I tried increasing RS, I found that I got several of the benefits that others reported. If you're interested, I recommend reading the thread and other good sources linked to in the thread.

[PaleoPhil]

African wild potato aka bantu tulip (hypoxis hemerocallidea) and other Stone Age sources of prebiotics, carbs and medicinal substances:

Seven rock-solid careers from the Stone Age
By John Roach
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38527329/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/seven-rock-solid-careers-stone-age/#.U7Q_ivk7sts
"Food workers, of the sort who process sorghum and other cereals to make flours, breads, porridges and alcoholic beverages, were in demand as early as 100,000 years ago in Mozambique, according to archaeologists who found the cereals in a cave along with African wine palm, the false banana, pigeon peas, wild oranges and the African potato."

[There were other foods in Stone Age Europe that supplied prebiotics and carbs, such as the chestnuts discussed above, wild grass seeds, sedge rhizomes and pollens from bulrush and cattail, water chestnuts, polygonum viviparum (Alpine bistort) rhizomes, alpine sweetvetch root aka Eskimo Potato with a cirmupolar distribution (indigenous to Europe, Asia and North America), etc.]

Hypoxis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoxis
Hypoxis is a genus of flowering plants belonging to the family Hypoxidaceae. The genus has an "almost cosmopolitan" distribution, occurring in Africa, the Americas, Asia, and Australia.[1]  ... These plants are perennial herbs with corms or rhizomes. Some have tubers.

...

Uses
Hypoxis plants have long played a role in traditional African medicine; H. hemerocallidea and H. colchicifolia are the best known species used to make medicine and teas. The corms of the former are used in the treatment of AIDS,[6] and the plant has been called a "wonder herb" and "miracle cure".[1] Hypoxis roots are widely touted as boosters of immune system function in AIDS patients by the media and even by the South African Ministry of Health.[6] This claim has not been tested in research.[1]


However, one study of African potato extract had to be stopped because of a severe bone marrow suppression side effect:
HIV warning on African potato, July 15 2003 at 01:43pm, By Christelle Terreblanche, http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/hiv-warning-on-african-potato-1.109328#.U7P4efk7sts


Indigenous use of plants in south-eastern Australia
https://www.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/95395/Tel122215Got.pdf
Family - Species - Storage Carbohydrate
Hypoxidaceae - Hypoxis spp. - starch


African wild potato (Hypoxis hemerocallidea)
http://www.livingnaturally.com/ns/DisplayMonograph.asp?StoreID=X95XDEPXKAS92JS100AKHMCCQJK613V8&DocID=bottomline-africanwildpotato

[political atheist]

Eades comments, "So, we eat our half cup of cooked potato, and what do we get? We get almost three teaspoons of sugar and carb that convert almost immediately to glucose and head directly into the bloodstream. The blood volume of a person with a normal blood sugar contains about a teaspoon of sugar, which means that consuming the potato almost quadruples the amount of sugar in the blood. The pancreas then secretes insulin to drive this excess sugar into the cells. This extra insulin then does all the things excess insulin is famous (or infamous) for doing.''

but why will that excess insulin cause damage? if we are active, wouldnt we just burn up that extra sugar? that extra sugar will not be deposited in muscles/liver and as fat store?

[PaleoPhil]

Eades comments, "So, we eat our half cup of cooked potato, and what do we get? We get almost three teaspoons of sugar and carb that convert almost immediately to glucose and head directly into the bloodstream. The blood volume of a person with a normal blood sugar contains about a teaspoon of sugar, which means that consuming the potato almost quadruples the amount of sugar in the blood. The pancreas then secretes insulin to drive this excess sugar into the cells. This extra insulin then does all the things excess insulin is famous (or infamous) for doing.''

but why will that excess insulin cause damage? if we are active, wouldnt we just burn up that extra sugar? that extra sugar will not be deposited in muscles/liver and as fat store?

Yes, someone with a healthy metabolism and other systems will not turn much of the glucose into fat (unless there is caloric excess), and will instead use it for energy for physical or mental activity or thermogenesis (body heat) or repair (or growth in youths). The problem comes in when the metabolism is not working well.

[PaleoPhil]

A concerning mouse study that suggests that too much SCFAs could lead to liver damage in some with "a genetic mutation in TLR5, resulting in a complete lack of its function." The authors "envision that our studies would drive the field towards 'personalized' cautioned dietary intake of plant-derived fiber in immunocompromised individuals." If there's a possibility of relevance for humans, then it would at least suggest some caution when considering things like high-dose intake of SCFA-generating prebiotics such as via prebiotic powders (ex: potato starch, inulin powder, etc.), which I already thought Satya was right to caution about. What works for one might be harmful for another. I've been trying to get as much as I can of what I need from whole foods and foods that benefit mitochondria and bioenergetics (the energy dissipation process). Could it be that even whole foods might contain too much prebiotic for people without this gene mutation? I don't know. It will be interesting to see analysis of this.

Chris Kresser (@chriskresser)
11/4/15, 9:41 PM
New study confirms connection between gut bacteria and obesity: bit.ly/1Sourdb #obesity #guthealth #microbiome

Stephan Guyenet, PhD ?@whsource  9h9 hours ago
@chriskresser Wow, that finding is unexpected.  I'll have to take a closer look.

Gut bacteria could be blamed for obesity, diabetes
Date: October 29, 2015
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151029185547.htm

[cherimoya_kid]

See, Phil, that's why eating supplements or even foodlements concerns me, especially in pill form (because it defeats the taste change), especially for people who aren't good at paying attention to their body's reactions to new substances. That goes double for things that are new to a specific population, or processed in a new way, like sulfites on dried fruit, which have made both me and a lot of other former raw vegans very sick.

[PaleoPhil]

Sure, and like I've said all along, my goal is to find an approach in which I eventually don't need any supplements or foodlements, if possible. For me they are never themselves an end goal--ideally just temporary measures and maybe even a stepping stone to not needing any. Nonetheless, caution and skepticism are generally in order with new substances.

One of the things that helped me question VLC and vegan diets was seeing so many promoters of these diets say things along the lines of "Don't worry about ____ symptom" (like muscle cramps/twitches/tetany for VLCers and B12 deficiency in vegans), just take _____ supplement (ex: magnesium/electrolytes and iodine for VLCers and B12 for vegans)." If the diets are so great, why do so many veterans of the diets need high dose supplements?

In this case, it doesn't seem likely that I'm one of the 10% with the mutation (but I'm not going to assume that), and even whole foods could be an issue for those who have it, not just supplements or foodlements. Maybe a certain form of Specific Carbohydrate Diet or Peaty diet that doesn't generate a lot of SCFAs might make sense for them? It will be interesting to see analysis of this study by other scientists.

It's interesting that one of the SCFAs cited by the study authors as potentially problematic for people lacking functioning TLR5's is acetic acid, which some LC advocates have been recommending as an alternative--via vinegar consumption--to foods containing resistant starch.

[cherimoya_kid]

I am grateful that you participate in other nutrition forums and learn what trends are happening and research them and experiment on yourself. You never know what might be useful, and I'm admittedly too complacent in my diet. It works well enough that I'm unwilling to experiment much on my own, plus I've had experiments go very badly, like 80/10/10, so I'm cautious.

[PaleoPhil]

Thanks. I should also note that I don't yet have access to the full study. So it could turn out to be bogus.

It's perfectly understandable to not want to experiment if something is working great for you and my posts are not meant to encourage people to experiment so much as to question and not assume that various gurus are right about everything.

[cherimoya_kid]

Indeed.