Hear that squeak? Noob wrapper. Tear in.

[Lynnzard]

Funny thing about hitting the 40's. All that stuff that your body used to shrug off and tolerate? It stops if you were kind of dumb like I was, put in a lot of garbage, and didn't pay much attention to whether you tried to work it off later or not. I guess in a way I can say I'm lucky. I've been hit with a health crisis that while painful and confounding doesn't seem to be leading down the road to an early grave. My body struck me with a clue-by-four. I decided it would be a good idea to listen.

I had been the vegan route about a decade ago. For maybe the first six months, I felt great. I attribute this to the fact my diet had been so poor in comparison that I probably could have chewed cardboard and drunk mineral water and felt better for a little while. Eventually, no matter how hard I tried to balance it, I started getting nutritional imbalances. B-12 deficiency not helped by supplements. Low level anemia. Constant dry skin and a constant brain fog I felt like I couldn't lift myself out of (no doubt a symptom of the B-12 issue). I took up a really active sport and couldn't eat enough to keep up with the calories burned, so I re-introduced meats slowly. Again, I felt better for a while.

Then my good old friends habit and complacency came for a visit. I gradually sank back into the diet that prompted me to try veganism in the first place. My body was older by then. I wasn't able to keep up with the sport due to some pretty bad injuries and deluded myself that I'd jump back on the exercise wagon once I was healed. The truth is I may never recover full functionality from some nerve damage, so I have two choices. I can let that stop me or do what I can with what I have.

I've only been eating RAVF for about three weeks now. My energy is on a radical upswing. For the first time in over two years I actually want to get out and exercise. More than just wanting it, I've done it, and I feel great afterward. Sugar cravings? Gone. Junk food cravings? Nary a one. I'm sated after my meals for extended periods of time. If anything, it is a struggle to get in enough calories because my body is so happy with what I'm eating. That big belly I had right under my breasts which felt hard, bloated, and uncomfortable is extremely reduced. Not to say there's not still some fat there, but it feels like normal fat, not like taut, fluid filled skin painful to the touch. I've dropped six pounds so far. Friends have commented on how amazing my skin looks. My husband has noticed my improved mood.

I'm not eating any refined sugars, grains, or starchy vegetables. I'm eating some fruit--mostly berries-- lots of leafy greens and members of the brassica family, and small amounts of soaked nuts and goat khefir. I've tossed out the cow dairy since it seems to turn my lungs into mucus blobs. My meat consumption is all grass fed or wild. So far bison, elk, and venison with liver and heart added in about twice per week, suet or bone marrow with every small red meat portion, plenty of fatty fishes and raw shellfish. I haven't gone for raw poultry yet. It's very hard to find goose or duck here, and I never liked chicken or turkey much cooked. I'm eating NOTHING cooked because right now my body won't tolerate it, not even little bites.

Unlike some I've read about, I took to the taste of the raw meat right away, particularly the liver. The first time I ate it, I was literally shaking the way I do if I've gone too long between meals and feel a blood sugar crash coming on. It felt like I couldn't eat it fast enough. My body has finally backed off of that ZOMG DESPERATION, but I still find I really enjoy it, and I credit it and bison heart with the upswing in my overall energy.

I'm not looking for nor expecting a miracle cure. Blood work and other tests are still ongoing, so I don't even know yet precisely what's wrong with me. I do know that this change in my diet has made a huge difference in pain levels in my gut, has kept my energy levels steady throughout the day instead of the familiar up and down of too many carbs/too much sugar, and is helping me drop weight more effortlessly than I ever have in my life. For so long I bought into the "fear fats" mantra. Y'all are the ones that helped me break through that with your accounts of what you eat and how good it makes you feel, so thank you. I am definitely benefiting from your experience and discovering it to be the same for me.

I'm looking forward to continuing toward better health, and I like to think I can be taught, even if it did take a clue-by-four to wake me up in the first place.

[cherimoya_kid]

Good luck to you.  It's good you've found it so easy.

[PaleoPhil]

You look better than 99% of the raw vegans (granted, that isn't saying a lot, but in your case it is), so maybe we should celebrate the fact that you weren't damaged further? As a matter of fact, you look better than most of the "best" raw vegans that are held up as examples of success. Easier said than done, of course.

Funny thing about hitting the 40's.

It hit me around age 30, unfortunately. Prior generations had already been hammered by Neolithic foods.

Constant dry skin and a constant brain fog I felt like I couldn't lift myself out of (no doubt a symptom of the B-12 issue). I took up a really active sport and couldn't eat enough to keep up with the calories burned, so I re-introduced meats slowly. Again, I felt better for a while.

It's quite a blow to the esteem of humans that we fare better when we "savagely" eat meat. It brings us "down" to the level of the animals that we despise. Maybe if we had a truly better opinion about other animals, instead of just paying them lip service, we might feel better about ourselves?

I've only been eating RAVF for about three weeks now. My energy is on a radical upswing. For the first time in over two years I actually want to get out and exercise.  More than just wanting it, I've done it, and I feel great afterward. Sugar cravings? Gone. Junk food cravings? Nary a one. I'm sated after my meals for extended periods of time.

Congrats! This is what  tends to happen when nature is allowed to take the lead, instead of modern human preconceptions. The truth is, vegans see the cycle of nature as "evil" and modern, artificial, human-created notions as superior. The world has been turned upside down, and it's past time to turn it rightside-up.

I never liked chicken or turkey much cooked

I wonder if you'd like the brown meat with fatty skin better, instead of the skinless white meat that's foisted on everyone?

Good luck!

[Lynnzard]

Good luck to you.  It's good you've found it so easy.

Thank you! Yeah, I'm very grateful I'm enjoying the taste. I've never been good at choking down food if I don't like it.

[Lynnzard]

You look better than 99% of the raw vegans (granted, that isn't saying a lot, but in your case it is), so maybe we should celebrate the fact that you weren't damaged further? As a matter of fact, you look better than most of the "best" raw vegans that are held up as examples of success. Easier said than done, of course.

I wish I looked this good. This is one of the default board avatars, singer and song-writer Jewel. I picked her for a quick and easy set-up and because I like her music. When I get a pic I like, I'll replace it with me.

It's quite a blow to the esteem of humans that we fare better when we "savagely" eat meat. It brings us "down" to the level of the animals that we despise. Maybe if we had a truly better opinion about other animals, instead of just paying them lip service, we might feel better about ourselves?

I was never that brand of vegan. I jumped on that particular diet for the alleged health benefits. I did a lot of research and thought I was doing the smart thing. It fit a lot of the conventional wisdom at the time about low fat, the "right" carbs, yadda yadda. Some of my friends who were vegans looked very healthy and had lots of energy, so I thought it would work for me. I never lost much weight on that diet at all until I started doing some very high energy extreme exercise (roller derby). And the nutrient deficiencies were the deal breakers for me. I said from the beginning that if it wound up making me less healthy rather than more, I wasn't going to stick with it.

Congrats! This is what  tends to happen when nature is allowed to take the lead, instead of modern human preconceptions. The truth is, vegans see the cycle of nature as "evil" and modern, artificial, human-created notions as superior. The world has been turned upside down, and it's past time to turn it rightside-up.

Yeah, I ran into some of the hard core zealots along the way, but I think I was lucky on the whole. Most of the ones I knew weren't food evangelicals. They just wanted to be healthy and thought that path would take them there. I think you run into that personality type with any "style" of eating. I've always been more along the lines of show me the results in my way of thinking.

I grew up in the deep south with a mother who was a really good cook for that type of food, which as it turns out is horrible for you. I never even knew it until I took a nutrition course in college, and of course that was based on the old food pyramid model which makes me sick as a dog if I eat that way. I think grains and legumes are probably the  biggest offenders when it comes to gastric discomfort, bloating and all kinds of nasty side effects in my body.

I wonder if you'd like the brown meat with fatty skin better, instead of the skinless white meat that's foisted on everyone?

Good luck!

Oh, definitely. I was always a dark meat girl if I had to eat the stuff, but aside from duck, goose, and quail, poultry on the whole has never really floated my boat.

Thank you!

[goodsamaritan]

I've only been eating RAVF for about three weeks now. My energy is on a radical upswing.

and

I'm not looking for nor expecting a miracle cure.

Funny... this already IS a miracle cure... congratulations... count your blessings.

[PaleoPhil]

I wish I looked this good. This is one of the default board avatars, singer and song-writer Jewel.

OK, I'm familiar with one of her hit tunes but had never seen an image of her (I don't own a television, LOL).

Most of the ones I knew weren't food evangelicals. They just wanted to be healthy....

Yeah, the most active and aggressive vegans on the Internet tend to be "philosophical vegans," for lack of a better term, which likely skews the overall impression one gets from the Internet.

[TylerDurden]

Chicken and turkey are almost always raised on grains, even the organic ones, that's why they taste so bad when raw. I shudder when I go to farmers' markets and hear the farmers proudly asserting that their organic-raised birds are fed on 100% vegetarian diets(they mean vegan, of course and grains and soy rather than veg as such). Fowl in the wild eat carrion, worms, insects so are actually omnivorous and grains only form a small part of their diet. If you can get hold of pastured chickens or wild fowl, then that's better.


Judging from reports, RVAFers usually take c.2-3 years to fully recover from very serious health-problems, though most will experience some benefit right at the start. If you can, I would suggest going in for raw wild game as well(I found that cheaper than grassfed meats and they have better nutrients). It's good that you are eating so many raw organ-meats as that is reported to speed up health-recovery on a RVAF diet. If you can get hold of raw thyroid or raw adrenals, that might help too, (though it's recommended by others to eat only tiny bits of them at a time, as they are very concentrated). Sadly, the UK forbids the sale thereof, so I was not able to get hold of them, myself.

[Lynnzard]

Funny... this already IS a miracle cure... congratulations... count your blessings.

I won't deny it's a good start and a nice change from how I've been feeling.

I'm very grateful for that.

[Lynnzard]

Chicken and turkey are almost always raised on grains, even the organic ones, that's why they taste so bad when raw. I shudder when I go to farmers' markets and hear the farmers proudly asserting that their organic-raised birds are fed on 100% vegetarian diets(they mean vegan, of course and grains and soy rather than veg as such). Fowl in the wild eat carrion, worms, insects so are actually omnivorous and grains only form a small part of their diet. If you can get hold of pastured chickens or wild fowl, then that's better.

You know, I never gave that too much thought at all since I never liked the taste much, but that makes perfect sense. They don't taste all that great to me cooked, either. For quite some time I've been getting pasture eggs, and THOSE are tons better than any of their counterparts. It makes perfect sense pasture raised chickens would taste better, too. There's an excellent local source for those around here at a reasonable price. If I ever get curious to try one raw, I'll buy it from them.

Judging from reports, RVAFers usually take c.2-3 years to fully recover from very serious health-problems, though most will experience some benefit right at the start. If you can, I would suggest going in for raw wild game as well(I found that cheaper than grassfed meats and they have better nutrients). It's good that you are eating so many raw organ-meats as that is reported to speed up health-recovery on a RVAF diet. If you can get hold of raw thyroid or raw adrenals, that might help too, (though it's recommended by others to eat only tiny bits of them at a time, as they are very concentrated). Sadly, the UK forbids the sale thereof, so I was not able to get hold of them, myself.

It usually takes us several years to develop these various conditions, which was why I said I wasn't expecting miracles. I don't believe I'll eat this way two or three months and be all better. I'm willing to give it time and enjoy the journey along the way. It's pretty difficult to find game meat around here unless you're good friends with a hunter. I'm considering trying to learn how, myself. My brother-in-law is an avid deer and duck hunter. The only catch is I'd have to go stay with them for a while during hunting season, and they live about 800 miles away. Not an impossibility but pretty inconvenient for both sides of the equation.

This week I'm giving kidneys and tongue a try. I'm waiting to hear back on the results of my blood test before considering ordering thyroid or adrenal glands. I've also heard of people messing up hormone balances pretty badly by consuming things they don't need. It's a shame they're not available to you. Unfortunately, fear plays a pretty big part in what food is available in various places. Raw dairy, cow or goat, where I live is next to impossible to get. Our state has  cracked down hard on any farmers trying to sell it. Never mind that people get sicker in different ways on the pasteurized stuff.

Thanks for the information. You have me curious about those pastured chickens now. lol

[Adora]

Hi Lynn nice to meet you. It does sound like you're off to a great start. I don't think you have to worry much about over consuming glands or organs. I get the idea that you eating them along the instinctive lines. I'm a "default instinctive" when I'm newer to a food or a food has been gotten questionably (ie store bought stuff were I didn't get it from the farm where it lived and died), I am cautious. When I am more familiar with the foods I tend to want to be " creative" and concoct something to satisfy more glutinous needs.
      Have you read the info on instinctive eating? I find it liberating. Have you experienced the natural stop that is well explained I that info? Even if you eat a small gland like thyroid one small bite at a time I expect you would feel a natural stop before your body was overwhelmed by the effects people report from supplements.
      The problem for me is that I only eat a bite then body says STOP. I go from really wanting to really repulsed instantly. I sometimes freeze these special items for later, but I'm really a fresh food snob. Still it is nice when my body says I really want to try another small bite of that gland I was sure I  had to have.  -Then barely touched to thaw it out for a second taste.
I love liver now too. It was hard at first for me, but my digestion and taste has improved or revived so powerfully. I'm not healed from the disease that helped me to choose this path but my digestion is remarkably better after almost 5 months of primarily ravf diet.
   

[Lynnzard]

      Have you read the info on instinctive eating? I find it liberating. Have you experenced the natural stop that is well explained I that info? Even if you eat a small gland like thyroid one small bite at a time I expect you would feel a natural stop before your body was overwhelmed by the effects people report from supplements.

Yes, I've read some of the info here and elsewhere about instinctive eating, and I've definitely experienced that natural stop. I never knew there was a term for it in the past, but I did notice that when I experienced it, it was usually with simple foods or mono-eating, not so much with cooked dishes or things with lots of sugars and/or flours.

With the liver in particular...well, I've NEVER had such a strong response to ANY food before. I had been researching for an idea of what to do since my body had suddenly decided cooked foods were a no go, and I knew I didn't want to a.) go the raw vegan route again or b.) bankrupt myself eating sashimi and raw oysters. I had already done some research into the Paleo way of eating and had read one of the books by Dr. Cordain. I was surprised to see that some people were following this raw and read enough to see they weren't all doubling over and dying from food poisoning, parasitic infections, and all the other horror stories that get thrown our way whenever we deviate from the "norm". So I thought, hmmm, maybe. I already liked my steaks rare, anyway, and bloody meat has never given me a sense of revulsion.

I came across just a picture of raw liver, and my mouth instantly started watering. I've cooked plenty of liver in my life and never had that reaction to it before. It was a really STRONG reaction that I wanted it raw, not to buy it to cook. I ordered it, and I couldn't stop obsessing about when it would get here for two whole days. It did, and I tore into it. I was actually glad my husband wasn't here when it arrived because there wasn't anything even slightly civilized about what I did. lol  I wound up eating two livers that way (not close together but separated by several days), and by the third I still really enjoyed the taste but wasn't crazed like I was with the first two. With that third one, I experienced that stop for the first time about halfway through. I put the rest away and was fine with finishing it off a couple of days later.


 

    The problem for me is that I only eat a bite then body says STOP. I go from really wanting to really repulsed instantly. I sometimes freeze these special items for later, but I'm really a fresh food snob. Still it is nice when my body says I really want to try another small bite of that gland I was sure I  had to have.  -Then barely touched to thaw it out for a second taste.
I love liver now too. It was hard at first for me, but my digestion and taste has improved or revived so powerfully. I'm not healed from the disease that helped me to choose this path but my digestion is remarkably better after almost 5 months of primarily ravf diet.

I'm a fresh food snob, too. I can easily tell when something has been frozen, and I don't enjoy it nearly as much. It sounds like you just might not need very much of the glands. I think it's good you listen to yourself about that and don't force it because somebody says it's good for you or you need it. While it's true our bodies can trick us with appetite versus need, especially with sweets, I think there's a lot of wisdom in there if we listen.

I'm glad to hear you've experienced some improvements. Isn't it interesting how disease so often becomes one of our most powerful healing tools? The wake up calls needed to break old cycles and habits and make better living decision? I'm wishing you the best on that continued journey. Thanks for the welcome!

[Adora]

I feel the same about disease being a wake up call. I'm grateful that it came early and I have learned so much while I am young. Good luck. Let us know how you continue to progress. It is helpful for me to remember what changes occurred for me just a few months ago when I read posts like yours.