transitioning to raw paleo for thin nursing mom?

[Suiren]

I wasn't sure where to post this exactly.

I know enough about the paleo diet to really change my eating habits, but what has been a problem for me so far is that I am losing weight rapidly as soon as I cut out certain foods (carbs!).

Even with a standard diet I have always been unable to gain weight, and was struggling not to lose any. I need to eat so much just to maintain, it is not fun any more.
Now it seems harder than ever to transition, because I am still breastfeeding my 8 mo. son exclusively, without adding any solids (and will continue to do so). That makes me burn extra calories.

My first attempt a half year ago failed (I don't think I was eating enough fat). My weight dropped from 119 to 109 in a very short time and I had to stop because I was getting too close to being too thin. I also felt dizzy and weak, which is not something you can deal with when taking care of a baby.

This time I want to carefully add and replace foods, making sure I at least keep my weight or ideally gain a bit.
Currently I am supplementing with cold pressed olive oil, raw butter, avocado and macadamia nuts/ cashews. Especially the butter and oil seem to do the trick tbh. I add about 3-4 tbs of olive oil and I eat chunks of butter on whole grain bread (I have not been able to get off grains fully yet).
My weight slowly creeped up to 111lbs (I know about dairy not being ideal)

I recently also started eating raw meat here and there to get comfortable with it. I am eating the "pretty pieces", not sure when I will be able to eat just about everything...fat and organs...I wish though.

Knowing all that, how would you recommend for me to transition? What would suit me best right now?
I DO want to make big changes, but keep in mind I am also still battling the "gross" factor.

TIA!

Edit:  Just want to be clear that I would like to be grain free, dairy free, sugar free eventually. I want to cut out as much bad foods as I can.

I should also add that carbs, especially from bread or pasta, seem to give me "energy". I had problems with dizziness and passing out without them, so for now I only reduced my intake. We suspect I might get hypoglycemia.
I am certainly not diabetic.

[cherimoya_kid]

I'd suggest fresh wild-caught ocean fish and shellfish. 

I'd get rid of the grains.  They can cause long-term health issues when eaten regularly.

Bananas can be helpful for gaining weight.

[Suiren]

Thank you! I wanted to eat grain free anyway. Sorry if I was unclear.

I am aware of the effect grains have on our health (been lurking and reading for some time) and I believe they might have contributed to the autoimmune diseases I (supposedly) have.

When I  tried to transition I ate a lot of bananas, but I am afraid they still did not have the enormous amount of calories I need, plus they seemed to spike my blood sugar. It seems I get hypoglycemia. :/

[jessica]

i had trouble keeping weight on with a raw and lower carb.  i think it really jacked up my adrenal function so not only was hyper active, i was almost becoming more and more malnourished.  perhaps to not be 100% raw is a better goal and to be %100 healthy is the best...no dogma, just health.  cook up plenty of roots, squash and tubers instead of grains, eat liver and egg yolks, butters...etc. make sure you are getting enough calories from carbs as well as fats and proteins.  roasted veggies are definitely more nutritious then most conventional produce, especially if you can get them locally and in season.

[cherimoya_kid]

Avocados are probably the best weight-gain raw food I'm aware of, other than goat milk/cheese.  If the goat milk is fermented, grassfed, and fed on high-Brix grass, and you can tolerate it well, and are supplementing with some magnesium, then it might work well in your case.

That's a lot of ifs, though.  Avocados are more likely to work for you.  How many do you eat daily?  I eat 2-3 daily.

[joej627]

I agree.  I had wrecked digestion from gluten/pasteurized dairy for quite awhile.  People don't understand how much it can screw up with your absorption of food/calories.  What is working for me is high-calorie, easily digestible foods.  Raw eggs, avocados, can't find raw butter around here =(, olive oil, coconut oil, bone marrow, nuts sometimes gotta be careful with those though.  I also do best with some vegetables in my diet, sometimes cooked.  If your digestion is screwed up i would be careful with the raw vegetables unless juiced. And try to relax a lot, our bodies like to be in parasympathetic mode to rest and digest =)

[Iguana]

If the goat milk is fermented, grassfed, and fed on high-Brix grass, and you can tolerate it well, and are supplementing with some magnesium, then it might work well in your case.

It’s certainly better to be intolerant to all dairy products, whatever they are. Being in tolerance means that the immune system stopped to eliminate molecules that our metabolism is not well adapted to, such as those present in the milk of other animal species. These would then be stored in our body’s cells and fat and could generate all kind of subsequent very serious troubles years or decades later. 

[cherimoya_kid]

It’s certainly better to be intolerant to all dairy products, whatever they are. Being in tolerance means that the immune system stopped to eliminate molecules that our metabolism is not well adapted to, such as those present in the milk of other animal species. These would then be stored in our body’s cells and fat and could generate all kind of subsequent very serious troubles years or decades later. 

What about the Masai of East Africa?  They've been consuming dairy for  a loooong time.

I'm not saying the issue is black and white, but I don't you should paint it that way either.

I definitely know of quite a few people who feel like raw dairy really improved their health.

I think the biggest problem with dairy, even with people who digest it well and aren't allergic, is the extremely high calcium/magnesium ratio.  I definitely recommend taking some magnesium supplements with it.  High calcium is associated with heart disease, and magnesium is the best antidote to that. Chemically they counteract each other, in the body.

[gc]

High calcium is associated with heart disease, and magnesium is the best antidote to that. Chemically they counteract each other, in the body.

Magnesium? I would have guessed phosphorous. My reasoning is that I used to have a Nile monitor lizard for which I would dust prey items with a calcium/phosphorous mix. If the mix was off he could've developed a host of weird diseases associated with calcium imbalance issues.

I know the biochemistry is way different, but I still would have associated phosphorous for humans as well and not magnesium. Bone loss problems come to mind.

[Iguana]

What about the Masai of East Africa?  They've been consuming dairy for  a loooong time.

Yes, and then? Do we have a reliable statistic study of the Masais’ health apart the anecdotal account of Weston Price you referred to last time? Price’s observations are interesting but his inferences do not follow the rules any scientific report should follow. As a dentist, Price mainly focused on dental conformation and caries. A fine dental health could for example be due to milk consumption while milk could cause multiple other health problems. Or the consumption of raw blood could offset the damages caused by milk. The fact that the Masais have lived in an unspoiled environment, have a healthy way of life with a lot of walking could do it too. Also, Price didn’t take into account the average ratio of cooked vs raw food intake.

There are reports that “of the 40 tribes in Kenya and Tanzania, only one - the Maasai - has members suffering from osteoporosis" but I could not find the original source of this info.

I'm not saying the issue is black and white, but I don't you should paint it that way either.

Milk is white, so the issue is definitely settled… 

I definitely know of quite a few people who feel like raw dairy really improved their health.

It would be interesting to have detailed accounts about it. Of course, raw dairy can improve the health in some cases (it may even have done it for me 45 years ago, but as it was simultaneous with other dietary changes, I cannot state that my health improvement was specifically due to raw dairy). It’s certainly not as bad as cooked dairy or pastries and it’s probably better for most people to eat dairy products than no animal food at all. 

I think the biggest problem with dairy, even with people who digest it well and aren't allergic, is the extremely high calcium/magnesium ratio.  I definitely recommend taking some magnesium supplements with it.  High calcium is associated with heart disease, and magnesium is the best antidote to that. Chemically they counteract each other, in the body.

Here you go into the flawed way of thinking which involve “diagnostic / prescription”, supposing that we know how and can master the almost infinite complexity of nature.   

[TylerDurden]

The only reference I came across re the Masai and osteoporosis was an unreferenced article by a raw vegan fanatic. Not a good sign. That said, there was that famous study by Mann which showed that adult Masai men  had the same level of atherosclerosis as Westerners. The only difference was that the very high level of physical activiity of the Masai led to a negation of many of the symptoms. As a direct result, there was a big counter-attack by the WAPF etc. , in which they claimed that the Masai had in the last few decades gone in for grains-consumption etc. which led to less health. However, my impression is that grains-consumption  was part of the traditional Masai diet for  millenia.

[Ferocious]

We (Suiren is my wife) aren't going to consume dairy for long. It is only going to be consumed during our transition. We live in accordance with nature, and consuming dairy regularly doesn't feel natural to us. That's all the reason we need to decide that it is not the healthiest.

[Suiren]

We (Suiren is my wife) aren't going to consume dairy for long. It is only going to be consumed during our transition. We live in accordance with nature, and consuming dairy regularly doesn't feel natural to us. That's all the reason we need to decide that it is not the healthiest.

True. Dairy is another animal's breast milk.
For now it helps me keep on/ put on pounds, but I would like to eat raw animal fat in the future. Just how much equals enough calories, I have no idea.

Veggies
What is the thought behind having them juiced? Digestion? How would one naturally juice them? (we don't have a juicer). I actually only like a few veggies raw,but would eat almost any vegetable cooked btw.

Avocados seem like a great source of fat, but I have used olive oil and raw butter for two reasons. 1. They are cheaper, one avocado = 1.40 Eur, 2. Smaller amounts have more calories.

My 8mo. is very plump and big only off of my milk, he must be getting a lot of calories and I need to make sure I have enough too. I assume once he gets older he will be needing even more.

[cherimoya_kid]

Magnesium? I would have guessed phosphorous. My reasoning is that I used to have a Nile monitor lizard for which I would dust prey items with a calcium/phosphorous mix. If the mix was off he could've developed a host of weird diseases associated with calcium imbalance issues.

I know the biochemistry is way different, but I still would have associated phosphorous for humans as well and not magnesium. Bone loss problems come to mind.

No, it's the excess calcium in dairy that is the problem.  Calcium has definitely been associated with heart disease.

[cherimoya_kid]

Avocados seem like a great source of fat, but I have used olive oil and raw butter for two reasons. 1. They are cheaper, one avocado = 1.40 Eur, 2. Smaller amounts have more calories.

In my experience, avocados are much better than other raw fats for weight gain.  However, if you find olive oil and raw butter to work as well or better, and aren't having unpleasant health issues from them, then I don't see any reason you shouldn't use them more.

[cherimoya_kid]

Here you go into the flawed way of thinking which involve “diagnostic / prescription”, supposing that we know how and can master the almost infinite complexity of nature.   

Whatever.

I've studied minerals and their interactions in the human body for years.  Calcium and magnesium are exactly antagonistic...in fact, too much of either one actually blocks the uptake of the other.

Raw dairy does have about 10-12 times as much calcium as magnesium.  The ideal ratio for humans is around 1:1 or even 1:2.  I can definitely show you studies that implicate excess calcium and insufficient magnesium in heart disease.  Given this, unless someone is having other health issues from fermented grassfed raw dairy, I feel fairly comfortable saying they can eat it in moderation without long-term issues, as long as they get enough magnesium from other sources.

I really think the heart disease is the big issue.  Other calcium/magnesium imbalance issues happen much faster, and are much easier to notice, like joint calcification. They are also easily corrected with magnesium supplements.

[TylerDurden]

Lactose in dairy has also been implicated in heart-disease.

[reyyzl]

As a direct result, there was a big counter-attack by the WAPF etc. , in which they claimed that the Masai had in the last few decades gone in for grains-consumption etc. which led to less health. However, my impression is that grains-consumption  was part of the traditional Masai diet for  millenia.

The grain they consume is corn, is it not? Corn certainly they did not have for millenia.

Grain may be helpful at this time, but I don't think regular grain. That may help deplete your bones.  Some fermented grain may be better.  Also, enough fluids, especially when eating starches.

Are you using any salt or foods that salts occur in naturally?

[TylerDurden]

Natural juicing would involve one just chewing a vegetable until the juice is sucked out and then spitting out the remainder.

Juicing is a waste of time, though. First of all, one needs a decent juicer if one  wants to do juicing seriously, and such juicers cost a lot of money. Also, juicers are a nuisance as they require cleaning, and many RVAFers have complained about getting health-problems if they consumed raw veggie-juice in large quantities(1 glass a day or more) over a long period. It has been claimed that this is because juicing not only makes the nutrients in veg more bioavailable(by shredding the cell-walls), but it also makes the antinutrients in raw, vegetables more bioavailable as well.

[TylerDurden]

The grain they consume is corn, is it not? Corn certainly they did not have for millenia.

Grain may be helpful at this time, but I don't think regular grain. That may help deplete your bones.  Some fermented grain may be better.  Also, enough fluids, especially when eating starches.

Are you using any salt or foods that salts occur in naturally?

It has been mentioned that the Masai traditionally ate various grains long before modern times.

As regards salt,  I have only used it a few times, several years ago, as part of various experiments. However, I have never dared use it regularly, as, since going rawpalaeo, salt has a very acrid, unnatural taste in my mouth, which I consider a bad sign. Natural salts exist in meats etc., so  that is not an issue.

[Iguana]

Cherimoya_kid, I didn’t mean that the ca/mg ratio in other animals’ milk is all right for us, humans. What I meant is that thinking we can compensate for this unbalance by supplementing with mg is, at best, simplistic. The only logical and natural thing to do is to avoid feeding on milk of other animal species and avoiding all milk anyway after weaning.

[reyyzl]

As regards salt,  I have only used it a few times, several years ago, as part of various experiments. However, I have never dared use it regularly, as, since going rawpalaeo, salt has a very acrid, unnatural taste in my mouth, which I consider a bad sign. Natural salts exist in meats etc., so  that is not an issue.

I'm thinking that for a nursing mom who is eating complex carbohydrates and drinking lots of water, some sort of salt may be helpful, perhaps from ocean food, blood, rock salt, vegetables?

[TylerDurden]

I'm thinking that for a nursing mom who is eating complex carbohydrates and drinking lots of water, some sort of salt may be helpful, perhaps from ocean food, blood, rock salt, vegetables?

I'd say that natural salts, such as found in blood, are fine, but I seriously doubt that table-salt/rock-salt is in any way useful. As regards blood, I have found it a wonderful, very invigorating food in the past. However, I only got that invigorating effect if I drank raw blood from a wild animal carcass. Blood from grassfed- or grainfed-animals didn't benefit me in the same way at all.

[Iguana]

Some seaweeds, shellfish or seawater may be tasty if you need salt.

[Suiren]

No, it's the excess calcium in dairy that is the problem.  Calcium has definitely been associated with heart disease.

I hope I can cut down on the dairy soon then.

In my experience, avocados are much better than other raw fats for weight gain.  However, if you find olive oil and raw butter to work as well or better, and aren't having unpleasant health issues from them, then I don't see any reason you shouldn't use them more.

I only started 2 months ago, not sure if I would already have noticeable health issues from it? I assumed it was better than my usual "stuff myself with cookies" approach.
I might be able to add more avocados by cutting down on other foods in the future and therefore not breaking the bank. Have to cut down on SAD food more anyway.