Too many bananas? What's the story?

[cobalamin]

I'm trying to find the truth with a capital T.

I've heard stories of individuals eating too many bananas and ending up in the ICU(Intensive Care Unit).

Do these individuals end up in the ICU because they've been eating oils/cooked flesh and their arteries are clogged up?

Does potassium lubricate the artery walls and break plaque off the artery walls?

[aLptHW4k4y]

What do you mean by too many? A lot at once, or just in general a lot of bananas daily?
There are the 30 bananas a day folks who eat huge amounts of bananas every day, but I haven't heard of anyone ending up on this ICU.

[cobalamin]

What do you mean by too many? A lot at once, or just in general a lot of bananas daily? There are the 30 bananas a day folks who eat huge amounts of bananas every day, but I haven't heard of anyone ending up on this ICU.

Yes to both your questions.

I read an article on Hyperkalemia and how its related with diabetes. All diabetics have hyperlipidemia(high blood fat). Do you think the reason why these 30 bananas folks can eat so many bananas is because their diet is low in fat?

I've heard of individuals ending up in the ICU. Not many, there is those rare cases.

[cherimoya_kid]

All diabetics have hyperlipidemia(high blood fat). Do you think the reason why these 30 bananas folks can eat so many bananas is because their diet is low in fat?

Fat has nothing to do with diabetes.  Getting most of your nutrition from fat forces the body to produce its own glucose.  Therefore, it's much less likely that you'll have more sugar in the bloodstream than the body can handle, because your body is likely to only produce as much glucose as is needed.

I think the reason that large amounts of raw fruit DON'T cause diabetes is because the fiber slows down the sugar absorption.  I have certainly noticed blood sugar issues, i.e., hypoglycemia, from drinking too much carrot juice.  I haven't had these problems as much from just eating raw fruit.

It looks like you're a new poster, so, just in case you don't know, I tend to ban members that promote vegans/fruitarians very quickly.  I'm just letting you know now, to avoid misunderstandings, OK? I'm not calling you a vegan troll, OK?  I'm just being clear about my moderating practices.   

[cobalamin]

Fat has nothing to do with diabetes.  Getting most of your nutrition from fat forces the body to produce its own glucose.  Therefore, it's much less likely that you'll have more sugar in the bloodstream than the body can handle, because your body is likely to only produce as much glucose as is needed.

I think the reason that large amounts of raw fruit DON'T cause diabetes is because the fiber slows down the sugar absorption.  I have certainly noticed blood sugar issues, i.e., hypoglycemia, from drinking too much carrot juice.  I haven't had these problems as much from just eating raw fruit.

It looks like you're a new poster, so, just in case you don't know, I tend to ban members that promote vegans/fruitarians very quickly.  I'm just letting you know now, to avoid misunderstandings, OK? I'm not calling you a vegan troll, OK?  I'm just being clear about my moderating practices.

Refined inflammatory omega 6 fat has everything to do with diabetes. ex. oils. We both know very well that a diet of processed junk is what hurts the health of an individual. You mean getting most of the nutrition from meat, not fat. There is no health benefits of the fat from oils and nuts. High fat/low carb forces the body into ketosis and the body producing glucose from amino acids through gluconeogenesis. Survival metabolism, Got it.

I agree about the fiber slows down sugar absorption however I am talking about potassium here.

Are you talking about fresh carrot juice that you squeezed yourself or carrot juice from the store with added refined sugar?

I drink fresh carrot juice a couple times a week and have never had issues with it.

I eat raw fish. I am neither vegan nor fruitarian nor an EXTREMIST and nor here to promote what I eat. I know very well the benefits of essential fatty acids, especially EPA/DHA that are not found in land vegetation.

I know where you're coming from however you should teach mislead sheeple that are easily influenced.

[aLptHW4k4y]

I read an article on Hyperkalemia and how its related with diabetes. All diabetics have hyperlipidemia(high blood fat). Do you think the reason why these 30 bananas folks can eat so many bananas is because their diet is low in fat?

I think it's because they seem to usually be very active (increased requirements for potassium) and healthy (no kidney problems, diabetes, etc), so then the body is perfectly able to maintain normal levels of potassium.

[cherimoya_kid]

Are you talking about fresh carrot juice that you squeezed yourself or carrot juice from the store with added refined sugar?

I'm talking about freshly-juiced, high-Brix, organic Bunny-Luv brand carrots, which are some of the best you can buy.  And let me clarify, I don't think carrot juice or other sweet juices are terrible, I just think they need to be used in moderation. Haven't you noticed that most juice recipes include celery along with the carrot juice?  That's because celery is a good blood sugar balancer, and mitigates the high sugar content of the carrots.

My point about carrot juice, and sweet juices in general, is that it is easy to overeat them because of their sweetness, and also because it's much easier to drink juice than chew a fruit or veggie.  You can take more in at once, and your body has to absorb all the sugar much more quickly, because of the lack of fiber.

[Adora]

Cobalamin
    The issue of diabetes and potassium is complex. I am type 1 and raw. My blood work is posted in my journal if you'd like to look. My cholesterol has always been low and I eat lots of fat and did even before going raw. I ate bacon, red meat, eggs, cheese, avocados, you name it. Now I am raw I eat suet, bone marrow, in addition to the other items I previously ate cooked. I will post my latest cholesterol ASAP. The lab didn't mail it to me and all my endocrinologist said was that it was normal, but I demanded copies and they should mail them to me. My sodium and potassium are also low to normal. Anybody with severe kidney issues will be unable to clear excess potassium, and diabetes is hard on the kidneys, but insulin actually decreases serum potassium. It is administered IV in ICU to bring it down when in critical condition.
     Anyway, this is a forum where we share and support each other. Nobody's teaching classes here, and the sheep are on the menu not the forum. It is easy to get excited/upset where health is concerned, but I doubt you know it all. Still, I liked your question it provoked thought. 

[sabertooth]

Refined inflammatory omega 6 fat has everything to do with diabetes. ex. oils. We both know very well that a diet of processed junk is what hurts the health of an individual. You mean getting most of the nutrition from meat, not fat. There is no health benefits of the fat from oils and nuts. High fat/low carb forces the body into ketosis and the body producing glucose from amino acids through gluconeogenesis. Survival metabolism, Got it.

I agree that eating the wrong fats along with a high carb processed diet has a lot to do with triggering diabetes. I was pre diabetic and having all sorts of trouble digesting omega 6 vegetable oils. I foolishly thought stir frying vegetables with sesame, or grape-seed oil was healthy.

I would feel terrible after eating anything with cook fat no matter if it was animal fat or vegetable fat. If I ate fat with carbs I would have the worst reactions and highest sugar spikes. I had a blood analysis done and the nutritionist was astonished with the amount of fat that was in my blood. For some reason my liver was completely congested and I couldn't properly digest fats, while at the same time I was having issues with carbs as well

Now I am on a high fat ketogenic diet, and my last blood work showed a perfectly normal lipid and blood sugar profile.

[sabertooth]

Mineral imbalance may also play a role in the causation of diabetes.

Regarding potassium, it may be worth noting that my hair analysis showed that I had a  potassium /magnesium inversion.

Basically, potassium should be in a certain proportion to magnesium. Your magnesium level should be much higher than your potassium, but in my case my potassium was off the chart high while my magnesium was deficient. The nutritionist gave me the impression that this was a serious imbalance.

Low magnesium is also a major contributing factor in diabetes. Perhaps people who load up on to much potassium rich foods are throwing their magnesium balance off. I think my problem was to many starchy vegetables. I would eat a banana or two a day, along with cooked potatoes or some other starchy vegetable. It seems like high potassium foods are also high in carbs as well.

Looking back its no wonder I was going diabetic.

[cobalamin]

I've been outside for a while. Perfect weather. My apologies for this late reply.

From my experiments, type 2 diabetes has nothing to do with Insulin Resistance(known as pre-diabetes). Contrary to what everyone believes. The only way for a diabetic to experience Insulin resistance is if they would eat a high carb/high fat/high sodium meal and inject themselves with insulin.

Diabetes is "Unusual thirst" and "Extreme hunger". (low beta-cell function, low insulin which stimulates hunger).
Insulin Resistance is feeling sleepy after an excessive high fat/high carb/high sodium meal. (high insulin, pancreas works perfectly)

I developed type 2 diabetes for a day after eating a piece of contaminated fresh water fish from Taiwan. Most likely, PCB's or other toxins wrecked the beta-cells of my pancreas.

I had insulin resistance on a daily basis after every meal for a couple years by eating the Standard Italian Diet. Pasta with salt/tomato sauce+olive oil and cooked meat/veggies. Never developed diabetes.

My experiment: I forced fed myself 250g of pasta without salt and tomato sauce with lots of fried olive oil twice a day for a week, no insulin resistance, inflammed my aorta(heart), not my pancreas. Waited a couple weeks for my heart to heal. Then added salt to the pasta and had insulin resistance everyday, still no symptoms of diabetes.

Mineral imbalance may also play a role in the causation of diabetes.

Regarding potassium, it may be worth noting that my hair analysis showed that I had a  potassium /magnesium inversion.

Basically, potassium should be in a certain proportion to magnesium. Your magnesium level should be much higher than your potassium, but in my case my potassium was off the chart high while my magnesium was deficient. The nutritionist gave me the impression that this was a serious imbalance.

Mineral imbalance plays a role in insulin resistance, not diabetes per se.

Its impossible that anyone would have higher magnesium levels than potassium because it goes against the characteristics of nature. Any type of fruit/veggie/meat is always high in potassium and low in magnesium. The forage that animals eat is high in potassium and low in magnesium. Most of the magnesium goes in the bones along with calcium. Its not that you had an inversion, its that you were deficient in magnesium like you stated. Magnesium is very hard to come by from animal products; maybe blood contains the daily requirements.

I strongly believe the nutritionist is highly mistaken. Its usually a sodium/potassium inversion that is seen in the majority of the population with degenerative diseases, high sodium and low potassium levels.

I agree that eating the wrong fats along with a high carb processed diet has a lot to do with triggering diabetes. I was pre diabetic and having all sorts of trouble digesting omega 6 vegetable oils. I foolishly thought stir frying vegetables with sesame, or grape-seed oil was healthy.

I would feel terrible after eating anything with cook fat no matter if it was animal fat or vegetable fat. If I ate fat with carbs I would have the worst reactions and highest sugar spikes. I had a blood analysis done and the nutritionist was astonished with the amount of fat that was in my blood. For some reason my liver was completely congested and I couldn't properly digest fats, while at the same time I was having issues with carbs as well

Now I am on a high fat ketogenic diet, and my last blood work showed a perfectly normal lipid and blood sugar profile.

Triggering insulin resistance, yes. Diabetes, no.

I also felt terrible after eating cooked fat. The stomach always tells the truth.

I am not astonished with the amount of fat in the blood of the majority of the population. Carb metabolism inhibits fat metabolism, fat accumulates in the blood. When we eat contrary to what is natural, we develop all these diseases. We have domesticated ourselves by making food easily available to us.

I agree with you, cooked fat is poison.

@Adora

I do believe you, that your total cholesterol is low and at the same time its obvious that you don't eat many carbs if any at all. ketogenic diets are perfect for type 1 diabetics, those with seizures, those looking to loose weight and those living in cold climates since fat insulates.

I don't know everything but I found my answer about bananas and why they increase heart rate. Nothing to do with potassium.

It was found that banana contained large amounts of norepinephrine and a related substance, dopamine. Large amounts of serotonin were also identified in banana.

Source: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/21/6/892

Norepinephrine increases heart rate, for those with clogged arteries, an increase in heart rate can be fetal.

As a stress hormone, norepinephrine affects parts of the brain, such as the amygdala, where attention and responses are controlled.[5] Along with epinephrine, norepinephrine also underlies the fight-or-flight response, directly increasing heart rate, triggering the release of glucose from energy stores, and increasing blood flow to skeletal muscle. It increases the brain's oxygen supply.[6] Norepinephrine can also suppress neuroinflammation when released diffusely in the brain from the locus coeruleus.[7]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norepinephrine

[Dorothy]

Didn't read everything in this thread since I'm never going to eat so many bananas that I have to worry about such a thing so excuse me if I'm repeating or not pertinent - but thought I'd throw in that hyperkalemia  (too much potassium in the blood) stems usually from the kidneys not working right so that they can't flush out the excess and diabetes can lead to kidney disease and heart disease and yada yada yada.

Basically - if you eat too much of just about anything even water you can get messed up - especially if you are not healthy is some way. There's this group (30 bananas a day) that eat tons of bananas in a sitting - but they might not have kidney disease or whatever.

It's really amazing what a basically healthy body can tolerate and cleanse out of itself.

[aLptHW4k4y]

I don't get it, how can bananas have norepinephrine, dopamine, etc., aren't these animal hormones?

[cobalamin]

I don't get it, how can bananas have norepinephrine, dopamine, etc., aren't these animal hormones?

They are, these hormones are for animals that eat the fruit, mainly for the purpose of getting us mammals addicted to the fruit and for seed dispersal. Bananas basically biochemically push animals to travel long distances and like men, bananas gotta spread their seed too! 

[Adora]

Cobalamin- I was wrong. I have my tests back and they were high. I'm to take statins (wich I will NOT do) and retake in 8 weeks. I have been eating lots of carbs, but I had another test done which said I can't process ketones. So, no more ketogenic diet for me. I was deathly I'll before the test so maybe that effected it. Or maybe I'm just going to fall apart. I don't know.

[Dorothy]

Cobalamin- I was wrong. I have my tests back and they were high. I'm to take statins (wich I will NOT do) and retake in 8 weeks. I have been eating lots of carbs, but I had another test done which said I can't process ketones. So, no more ketogenic diet for me. I was deathly I'll before the test so maybe that effected it. Or maybe I'm just going to fall apart. I don't know.

Better falling apart without statins than with!

[cobalamin]

Cobalamin- I was wrong. I have my tests back and they were high. I'm to take statins (which I will NOT do) and retake in 8 weeks. I have been eating lots of carbs, but I had another test done which said I can't process ketones. So, no more ketogenic diet for me. I was deathly I'll before the test so maybe that effected it. Or maybe I'm just going to fall apart. I don't know.

What I don't understand is why paleo circles advocate a ketogenic diet for type 1 diabetics; insulin is still needed to process ketones. 

Natural beta-carotene cleans up the body nicely and lowers cholesterol. Lettuce is a good option, new(freshly picked) lettuce is sweet while old lettuce is bitter.

My guess is that you have feeding habits that don't coincide with the reality of nature because you have food readily available and maybe don't get much exercise to stimulate the lymphatic system, walking for an hour is a good start and beneficial. Anyways, I never eat meat and carbs on the same day because eating carbs and meat on the same day is like having an abundance of fruit available and killing an animal for habitual reasons; I would only kill(buy) the animal via instinct, the need for meat. Plus carbs follow a totally different metabolism than meat; its catastrophic mixing them together. Carbs kick the body out of ketosis and inhibit fat metabolism(using fat as energy) and fatty acids accumulate, total cholesterol skyrockets. Important thing to understand is that its not the fault of any natural foods but our faults for not following the laws of nature.

Try getting more activity in your life, try eating raw red meat for your last meal without carbs and see how you feel the next morning. Protein is only used while resting.

Hopefully you've understood what I've written.

[Adora]

Cobalamin thanks for your advice.  My life is always in upheaval. I never have balance. It causes a deep unrest. I'm trying to figure out how to make this better. To stop the cycle.
     I love activity. I naturally gravitate to movement. I more often over do it than under. Then I crash hard. Bs crash sometimes 20x/ day, maybe twice/month.  Honey helps and rest. This year I tore my ACL and broke my foot so that put a damper on my activity. I was fighting depression from inability to run barefoot. Then I got much better and attempted to stop taking insulin. I didn't even wean. I just stopped. In my head it seemed possible, but I was close to death for hours and severely ill for days. I've never had anything but perfect choloesteral pannel.
     I have put off retaking it until next month due to some unexpected hormonal shifts I need to address first.
     I like to eat instinctive. I eat much less and feel best. I do mix fruit/starchy veggies with animal foods in same meal, but I eat them one at a time until I get the stop. Then, I smell what I want next. I don't want to avoid mixing all day though. Maybe in the future.
       I lIke the flavor of your advice. I will keep in in mind. My lymph is easily clogged. I do cold therapy, massage, yoga, and still. What more do you suggest for lymph?
     I am almost positive no insulin in ketoacid metabolism. That wasn't the full problem anyway and I still don't understand it myself

[Dorothy]

Throwing something in here for Adora. Two thirds of the lymph is produced in the liver and intestines. How are your intestines moving? In Traditional Chinese Medicine lymph not moving well is considered to be from stagnation in the spleen meridian. Herbs that help the spleen are often used for lymph in Western traditions. Oregon Grape is supposed to be the premier herb for helping the lymph to flow but you have to have good bowel movement when using it.

Lymph congestion in considered to be in essence a symptom of digestive disturbance from my understanding. If your digestion was working really well you don't need much movement for your lymph to flow - maybe that's why you are so pulled to movement? It's your way of moving the lymph.

I wouldn't be surprised if as you get your digestion stronger over time if the lymph issues subside. There are ways to help that along - but you have so many things going on that if you were to try some herbs I would suggest you consult in person with someone who knows their way around herbs - or at least do lots of research!

Like eating your comfrey - there are other herbs you can eat - if it's a bad enough problem for you.

[Adora]

Dorothy that all was great. I do poop well. Things were strange when I went raw but the clay and DE has been amazing. I used to be very bloated. Now it seems like my GI tract is the only thing that doesn't bloat. Maybe I'm healing from the inside out. I will try Oregon grape root,  after this cycle, and see if things are better for the next. It is defiantly exacerbated by hormone weekness. I want to try and eat more fish eggs too

[gc]

My experiment: I forced fed myself 250g of pasta without salt and tomato sauce with lots of fried olive oil twice a day for a week, no insulin resistance, inflammed my aorta(heart), not my pancreas.

How would aortic inflammation be measured?

[cobalamin]

How would aortic inflammation be measured?

Chest pain and splinter hemorrhage. Splinter hemorrhage on the nails tells us that the heart is inflammed.

I pretty much gave myself rheumatoid arthritis with aortitis with all the grains and the oxidized omega 6 olive oil I tested out. White rice was the worst of the grains. I'm glad I ate large portions.. its better than eating small portions and waiting years for the internal damage to show up.

I reversed everything with fresh squeezed carrot juice.