Healing Lupus and MS w. diet, resources, examples.

[PaleoPhil]

Another resource on MS is this site: http://paleodiet.com/ms/ 
It linked to another site that provides this interesting info about a German physician using a mostly-raw diet to successfully treat MS.

J. Evers, M.D. reported considerable improvement in nearly six hundred M.S. patients on an unprocessed and mostly raw diet (Public Deutsche Med. W., 72:521, September 19, 1947).

Raw milk, raw eggs, honey, sprouted rye and wheat, some whole grain bread and coarse flakes, were permitted and vitamin B-1 (thiamin) supplements were used (I would avoid the grains myself). The food was either "raw or at least as little denatured as possible." Prohibited foods included preserved foods, nicotine, coffee, tea, alcohol, salt, sugar, white flour, spices and condiments.

"Dr. Evers went on to found the world's first clinic specializing in multiple sclerosis treatment. Before 1970 he had treated over 10,000 cases.  His experience and success cannot be easily dismissed. Dr. Evers has written two books:  The Changed Aspects of Diseases and the very practical Directions For Treatment of Multiple Sclerosis.  Both are published by Karl F. Haug, Ulm/Donau, Germany, 1964."

From: AN IMPORTANT NATURAL THERAPY FOR MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS
http://doctoryourself.com/ms_2.html

9T)here is the work of Dr. Joseph Evers of Germany. He has treated nearly 1,000 cases of multiple sclerosis with diets which included no refined foods but which were composed chiefly of raw vegetables, raw fruits, raw nuts, raw honey, raw grain sprouts, uncooked coarse rolled oats, whole meal bread, raw ham, raw bacon and raw chopped beef. The success enjoyed by Dr. Evers in the treatment of multiple sclerosis is in itself the greatest documentation in the world for the value of the raw food diet. No other medical doctor anywhere claims beneficial treatment for multiple sclerosis. I have corresponded with Dr. Evers for over 10 years and I have sent people to him. They have returned in good condition and told me personally that Dr. Evers helped them.

Does the Raw Food Diet Work? - Raw Food Experiments
By Adam Brookover
http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/9985/1/Does-the-Raw-Food-Diet-Work---Raw-Food-Experiments.html

Before he died in 1977, Dr. Evers treated more than 15,000 patients (source: http://www.sharecare.com/question/diet-treatment-effective-multiple-sclerosis).

Unfortunately, Suiren reported that the person in question also has kidney disease and other illnesses that further complicate matters. Not all physicians are equally bad (Dr. Evers certainly seems light years ahead of most, for example). If she gets interested in a Paleo approach, maybe the Paleo Physicians Network might help her find a Paleo friendly physician in her area: http://paleophysiciansnetwork.com   It's coordinated by Robb Wolf and Loren Cordain. She wouldn't have to tell them that she's doing a raw or mostly-raw version.

Dr. Kenneth J Tourgeman, MD is a Nephrologist who uses a (cooked) Paleo diet in his therapy in Florida (http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Kenneth_Tourgeman.html#ixzz1u2AQdwVQ) and he and his patient "Billy E" have reported some success with partly reversing mild chronic kidney disease (which is supposed to be impossible). Someone who is not yet on dialysis would have the best chance of improvement. Maybe Dr. T might have some suggestions. Unfortunately his blog/forum now requires an invitation (http://nephropal.blogspot.com/).

[Dorothy]

Phil - my Mom's nephrologist was beyond stumped as my mother's kidney function continued to improve!
Kidney disease and failure are quite different so let's just hope she is not on dialysis yet! Just my experience with Mom proved to me that kidney function can be improved with diet.

[PaleoPhil]

I work in the healthcare industry (though I'm not a physician and don't even play one on TV ) and am familiar with kidney failure. It's a vague term that can refer to acute kidney failure/injury or chronic kidney disease CKD. If she has chronic kidney disease, then there's a wide range of severity, from stage 1 to stage 6 (end stage). It doesn't sound like she has acute kidney failure, based on what was reported, because that would require hospitalization (and usually dialysis) to enable recovery to stabilize her condition, and nephrologists are usually able to stabilize a patient who isn't nearing death within days. Dialysis is also often used in the treatment of CKD, particularly in the more severe stages, but doesn't usually require hospitalization in the less severe stages.

It's also possible that Suiren is right that the physician was using the term loosely to warn her that her kidneys are on the path to failure. In that case there would be hope that she could halt the progression before reaching the level of stage 1 chronic kidney disease (Glomerular Filtration Rate > 90). That would be the best case scenario and offer the greatest hope for improvement.

Even if she hasn't reached stage 1 CKD, this particular patient's reported illnesses are sufficiently severe, multifaceted and complex that none of us can make basic, simple home-remedy advice without possibly causing much more harm than good. That's why it would be best if she could find an excellent physician who's at least open to some sort of Paleo approach, like a Dr. Terry Wahl's type, and perhaps also some sort of alternative healthcare practitioner, like a Chris Kresser type (he happens to be a chiropractor, though my experience with chiropracters has actually been that the good ones are few and far between). Finding really good physicians and good alternative practitioners can be difficult and time consuming, as they are rare. In the meantime, she could also do what a lot of us have done and do her own research by reading/viewing the resources that I and others shared here (though I'm not a fan of some of them, but hopefully she'll be able to weed out the useless stuff with her own skepticism), medical journals and studies (PubMed is a good resource), this forum, etc. After all, no one knows her condition as intimately as she herself does.

[Dorothy]

I work in the healthcare industry (though I'm not a physician and don't even play one on TV ) and am familiar with kidney failure. It's a vague term that can refer to acute kidney failure/injury or chronic kidney disease CKD. If she has chronic kidney disease, then there's a wide range of severity, from stage 1 to stage 6 (end stage). It doesn't sound like she has acute kidney failure, based on what was reported, because that would require hospitalization (and usually dialysis) to enable recovery to stabilize her condition, and nephrologists are usually able to stabilize a patient who isn't nearing death within days.

It's also possible that Suiren is right that the physician was using the term loosely to warn her that her kidneys are on the path to failure. In that case there would be hope that she could halt the progression before reaching the level of stage 1 chronic kidney disease (Glomerular Filtration Rate > 90).

Yeah - I've always heard of chronic kidney disease being quite distinct from kidney failure. It might be the doctor or it might be what someone heard rather than what was said as kidney failure might be a term more familiar to the general public so maybe just a misunderstanding? If she isn't on dialysis and she's able to stay home - even though I certainly am no doctor or actor either - it really makes it sound more like kidney disease which is light years more hopeful. Even with kidney disease though that mineral balance thing really has to be watched...... but there will be so much more leeway the less severe the kidney disease is. If she is just at the beginning of kidney disease rather than kidney failure - that would be almost easy.

[PaleoPhil]

Yeah - I've always heard of chronic kidney disease being quite distinct from kidney failure.

"Kidney failure" is a bit confusing, because a physician using that term might be referring to either CKD or AKI (acute kidney injury/failure).

It might be the doctor or it might be what someone heard rather than what was said as kidney failure might be a term more familiar to the general public so maybe just a misunderstanding?

Without more details, I can't know for sure precisely what her physician meant, but it certainly doesn't sound like she has AKI.

If she isn't on dialysis and she's able to stay home - even though I certainly am no doctor or actor either - it really makes it sound more like kidney disease which is light years more hopeful. Even with kidney disease though that mineral balance thing really has to be watched...... but there will be so much more leeway the less severe the kidney disease is.

Yes, dialysis has not been mentioned yet, so her kidney illness so far doesn't sound very advanced. And you're right to point out the special risks of kidney problems. For example, Paleo-type diets tend to be high in potassium, which can be a dangerous risk for renal disease patients. That's why when a kidney disease patient asked me for suggestions, I made sure they fit with his special prescribed diet and suggested he check them with his physician. Unfortunately, he had waited until his disease was too advanced before looking into alternatives for anything to help him much and I don't think he followed through on many of the things I suggested he check with his doctor on.

I'm appalled that Suiren's friend was put on chemotherapy, apparently for the MS, though we don't know what sort exactly, nor the precise reasoning. I'm not getting a sense that the treatment and advice she is getting are particularly good, but I try to avoid prescribing and even a physician would not prescribe based on the tiny bit of info that has so far been shared (at least not an ethical one).

The problem with conventional treatment of MS and kidney disease is that they mainly seek to ameliorate symptoms, not halt progression of the diseases, and (as you pointed out), in the long run they tend to cause additional organ damage, so that the patient often dies from the therapy before they die of the disease. I've read hundreds of kidney disease cases and I've yet to see one improve from conventional treatment, but I've seen reports of several patients improving some under Dr. Tourgeman's care and I've seen multiple reports of MS patients improving dramatically on dietary and other unconventional therapies. Dr. Wahl's case is particularly impressive and difficult to dismiss, since she herself is a physician who tried the "best" that conventional therapy had to offer (which failed miserably) and she is starting a study to test her Paleo protocol that succeeded so well on her.

Dr. Evers' work is also hopeful. The problem is that it isn't in English, so it probably won't have much impact in the USA. Plus, it included grains, but the raw aspect and the number of patients he treated is very interesting.

[raw-al]

Oh no, I did not mean to say she should tell any doctor about the paleo diet. 
I was just referring to the conversation about how conventional insurance does not cover naturopathic and holistic treatments.
She might want to look into some sort of alternative treatment to cope with pains and other problems while she is changing her diet.

I am by no means recommending doctors to her. I had my share of doctor nonsense, got really tired of it, got off meds on my own account and now I'm better.
I agree they are trying to sell drugs...or well the makers of the drugs are trying to sell them through doctors which believe drugs to be the only way...

Suiren,
This is one of the problems with internet conversations. Misinterpretation. Thanks for the clarification.

[Adora]

Suiren,
     I'm so glad your friend is home. She must be out of organ failure or she would not be home. Chemo meds and Lupus meds can be quite toxic. People can have deadly reactions even to one dose.
   But your friend is home so she must be stabilized. In addition to all of the raw foods she wants she must keep her mind healthy. Just being there for her to cry with and to bring her hopes back around if she slips into depression is so powerful.
   What is she doing now for food, meds, health? Is anything helping? Does she want/crave anything? What are her worst symptoms?

[Suiren]

Adora,

like I said, I don't know her very closely. We know each other from Instagram where we are part of a network where moms only add other moms and share their pregnancy and babies life. I have known here since she was pregnant, but she does not talk about her condition often, and when I learned about the recent bad news she was in the process of moving (she lives in the US), but agreed to try different options.
She will have internet back on the 16th, I will let everyone know how she responds to my help offered.

I work in the healthcare industry (though I'm not a physician and don't even play one on TV  ) and am familiar with kidney failure. It's a vague term that can refer to acute kidney failure/injury or chronic kidney disease CKD. If she has chronic kidney disease, then there's a wide range of severity, from stage 1 to stage 6 (end stage). It doesn't sound like she has acute kidney failure, based on what was reported, because that would require hospitalization (and usually dialysis) to enable recovery to stabilize her condition, and nephrologists are usually able to stabilize a patient who isn't nearing death within days. Dialysis is also often used in the treatment of CKD, particularly in the more severe stages, but doesn't usually require hospitalization in the less severe stages.

Hm...I'm not sure how she got the idea then. Must have been a bad misunderstanding, and she may be worrying herself more than she has to. And like I said, I do think it is possible doctors completely dramatized the results too...the things doctors have told me...I could write a book about it.

Thanks everyone for your help!

[Suiren]

So I recently asked her how she is doing, seeing that she is going through a
lot of alternative treatment.

She said she has been on raw paleo for a while  and no meds but all of a sudden it is hurting her stomach. So now she is switching to cooked vegan and starting a list of meds to stop the strokes.

Does anyone know why it could be hurting her?

My thought is that if you cheat too often, especially with grains and such, it could cause pains from the wheat or so. I am not sure she is all strict about it.

[goodsamaritan]

she needs probiotics?

Or maybe her liver needs cleansing with liver flushes or coffee enema?

It depends on her condition and what she is ill with.

[joej627]

Too much roughage was bad for me.  Some "vegans" eat massive amounts of raw kale, salads, etc.  All the fiber is can be extremely irritating and constipating.  I would see if she would consider juicing or cutting out the raw vegetable fibers.

[Suiren]

she needs probiotics?

Or maybe her liver needs cleansing with liver flushes or coffee enema?

It depends on her condition and what she is ill with.

Coffee enema? Eww..lol does it come with instructions?
I asked her and she has: gerd, ulcers, cystic kidneys, and ovaries, calcified pericardium, cerebral vasculitis, lupus, chronic kidney stones, ms, asthma, lactose intolerance.

Too much roughage was bad for me.  Some "vegans" eat massive amounts of raw kale, salads, etc.  All the fiber is can be extremely irritating and constipating.  I would see if she would consider juicing or cutting out the raw vegetable fibers.

Yeah, she might have done too much of that. I know many are not to keen on eating a lot of meat and eat a lot of veggies instead.

Btw. I also found out her dad recommends raw and cooked paleo to his patients!  What a surprise! She did raw for 3 and then cooked for 4 years but only bettered on a vegan diet. I wonder if she has troubles absorbing fat, proteins etc.
Her parents are doctors and were exposed to chemicals. The whole family is pretty sick and she has been since she was a child 

She was also in the hospital recently, testing for cerebral vasculitis, she had MRI's and EEG's and a spinal tap and some vicodin if I am correct?