juicing and other questions

[bachcole]

Hello you-all, I have been raw juicing for about 1.5 years, and it has helped a lot.

I have been doing homemade kefir for about a year.  Although I really like kefir and the idea of kefir and the idea of having my own farm in my kitchen (kefir culturing is farming), and although I haven't experienced the kefir harming me, it doesn't seem to have done as much compared to the raw veggie juicing.

I did a 30 day raw veggie juice fast recently, and at that time I had to decide where to go from there.  Processed foods just didn't cut it anymore taste-wise.  And that is when I started moving towards and studying paleo.  I noticed during the juice fast that fruit juice made me more hungrier.  That was the eye opener that showed me that sugars and carbs were hurting me.  Since I have been more strongly following the paleo diet, I have felt and slept and pooped so much better.  I have even given up the psyllium, which I find completely unnecessary.  Of course early man did not have psyllium.  When looked at from the evolutionary viewpoint, it is absurd to be taking so many pills and powders. 

My questions are, what do you all think of raw veggie juicing [aside from the fact that most raw veggie juicers slide into raw veganism, which is 1/2 wrong (too much for me)]?  I think that raw juicing fits very nicely into a paleo diet, especially given the fact that I am still about 25 pounds overweight (after losing 25 pounds on my 30 day raw juice fast.)

What do you think of homemade kefir?

[TylerDurden]

We are a RAW, palaeolithic diet forum, not a cooked-palaeolithic diet forum. Also, most of us loathe raw veggie-juice as it is a highly artificial, non-palaeo food. Plus, many rawists have complained that juicing veg not only releases a lot of nutrients but also a lot of antinutrients, the latter causing various nutritional deficiencies over time.

[bachcole]

So does this mean that I can't post here anymore?

I am well aware that paleo man did not have juicers.  But, biochemically, they were evolved to deal with raw veggie juices since they chewed and swallowed veggies and their juices.  But raw fruit juices have too much fructose, something that would be much more rare 25,000 years ago.

Since I have 25 lbs. of excess, processed food derived body fat, I need the extra micro-nutrients to metabolize the excess body fat.  It is possible that when I get down to a more ideal body weight that I will leave off with the juicing.  It seems to me that paleo-correct food should be defined by the biochemistry.

What say you about homemade kefir?

And what do you do with the idea of many anthropologists that early man cooked meat and tubers for about 1 million years.  I believe that the raw meat for the previous 999 million years might very well trump the 1 million years of evolving with cooked meat.  I am open to suggestions.

Today I had my first raw meat, and I will have some more for the next 4 days.  I will see how it goes.  Do you have experience that says that raw meat actually works better than cooked meat in your body?  Anyone?

[cherimoya_kid]

That's a lot of questions.

I personally have no problems with you using juicing as a way to transition to a better diet.  I doubt it causes real problems for most people, when done in moderation.  However, it can be overdone.  Anti-nutrients in veggies is a real issue.  I encourage you to pay attention to any symptoms that crop up, and stop juicing for a few days, to see if those symptoms go away.  If they don't, then you know that juicing isn't causing them.  Just use your common sense and pay attention to your body's symptoms, is how I see it.

I have no absolute problem with kefir, but be aware, raw dairy is extremely high in calcium, and you can end up with a magnesium deficiency as a result. Also, many people have allergies of one kind or another to dairy, even raw grassfed dairy, so use the same approach to kefir that I suggested above for juicing. Common sense, and stop using it if it starts causing symptoms.

Humans have not adapted to cooked meat.  We will never be able to digest cooked meat as easily as raw meat.  Think about it...we ARE meat.  RAW meat. Doesn't it make sense that we would more easily digest something that's MORE chemically similar to our bodies (raw meat) versus something LESS similar (cooked meat)?

Arnold Schwarzenegger reported that he had to eat a lot more meat to keep his muscle mass up when he was in the Austrian Army, because the army cooked the meat heavily.  This implies that raw meat protein is much more digestible and usable that cooked meat protein.

TylerDurden, one of our moderators who just posted in this thread, tends to get stomach cramps whenever he eats cooked meat.  Raw meat does not affect him this way.

[TylerDurden]

Also:-

http://old.rawpaleodiet.com/advent-of-cooking-article/

http://old.rawpaleodiet.com/non-wrangham-theories-of-cooking-debunked/

You'll have to scroll down those pages to get the relevant info. There's a problem with rawpaleodiet.com of some sort, it seems.

I should also mention that there are species such as giant pandas who have been eating foods they were evolutionarily not designed to digest properly, and they still haven't adapted to such foods even after millions of years, so the "millions of years/long length of time" argument, while almost certainly wrong, is not a good enough argument to suggest that we are adapted to cooking.

[bachcole]

So, this morning I had my first honest to God raw meat, for breakfast, along with 2 raw eggs (which is nothing new for me), a green smoothie and a tablespoon full of coconut oil.  The raw meat was organic, grass fed beef.  It had no taste, so I put a little salt on it.  I am glad to report that I did not die from all of the germs, at least not so far.  I also had a hand full of pills, most of which I am phasing out anyway.  The fish oil caps may stay.  This raw paleo may actually save me some money since I will be taking far fewer (if any) supplements.

Now, comes the question:  How do you folks deal with the thoughts about the microbial dangers of raw meat?

Roger

[bachcole]

I have another question, although it is more theoretical.  If Max Gerson is curing cancer with his diet, which is very oriented around raw fruit and veggie juicing, would not he have done a better job (higher cure rate) if he included raw meat?

[TylerDurden]

Now, comes the question:  How do you folks deal with the thoughts about the microbial dangers of raw meat?

Roger

We all go through a few stages as newbies:- first, we try eating raw grassfed or wild meats but are convinced that we will die within days, but we have no choice, because in most of our cases, other diets failed to work except very minimally - the, after a while, we get surprised that we haven't died yet. Then we try "high-meat" after some trpidation, and, finally, after a year or two, we gradually come to recognise that the microbial dangers  are not an issue. Only exceptions might be very rare instances such as raw oysters caught in the red-tide phenomenon or some other pollution, that's it- though this is easily solved by buying oysters from more reputable fishmongers or from less polluted waters.

[bachcole]

I notice that my raw beef meal gave me really strong prana, such that I was unable to process it without a little jolt while dropping off to a nap.  That is a good thing, but really no surprise.

[van]

You may want to try keeping your meals simpler,, not so many foods in one meal.

[Dorothy]

I have another question, although it is more theoretical.  If Max Gerson is curing cancer with his diet, which is very oriented around raw fruit and veggie juicing, would not he have done a better job (higher cure rate) if he included raw meat?

Welcome Bachcole.

Max Gerson originally used raw liver juice in his therapy.

Eating a diet that cures a particular disease when you don't have that disease isn't always the wisest way to choose what to eat. Do you have cancer?

Sometimes with certain diseases things work to get rid of the disease that might not necessarily be right for someone without it or for someone working on other goals - like designing the most health building diet for a relatively healthy person or someone who is just overweight.

One of the best way to cure cancer is to starve out the cancer cells and cleanse the liver. Gerson therapy is excellent at that. It might not however be the best diet for building a body up though or for you in particular if you do not have cancer.

[Dorothy]

Now, comes the question:  How do you folks deal with the thoughts about the microbial dangers of raw meat?

Roger

It takes time to get used to the idea. You drink kefir - so that might help you. Kefir is filled with bacteria - the kind that is good for you. Do you drink raw milk kefir? If you do you will be one step closer. You eat raw eggs. Why do you feel comfortable doing that? Slowly you will be deconditioned re the mass social programming. It does take time but if you just let your mind continue to expand on what you already know - the truth of the matter will start to unfold. The good people here helped me. I was eating raw milk, eggs and fish - and still I couldn't quite put it all together without their help because the taboos in our society run so deep.

Hang out with us and read how people feel better and better and it will start to sink in.

[bachcole]

I do not have cancer, as far as I know.  I am relatively healthy for a 66 year old.  And with juicing, juice fasting, and now raw paleo, the UgLY age spots on my forearms seem to be disappearing.  After the juice fast of 30 days, my triglycerides and thyroid numbers improved dramatically.  Everything else is very close to OK.

[bachcole]

I really appreciate getting such good help from experts with such a huge change in my life.   (:->)  Thank you.