cellulite

[littleElefant]

Hi,
during the last month I was on a crazy high everything, mostly raw, high calorie diet to gain weight.  Gaining weight is very difficult for me but I managed to gain 6 Kg in 3 month.  One reason for it was I think that I added butter to my diet.  Butter is so easy for me to digest.
Anyway, I loved my new weight.  The unpleasent thing is that I develloped also cellulite on my thights.
Thougt it could be the butter or the Avocados, so I stoped eating them. That was superdifficult and I eate a lot of veggies and nuts and buckwheat sprouts zu compensate. But I lost weight anyway and my legs don't look better at all
How can  I get rid of this------THING???

Noel

[jessica]

your body will definitely try to hold on to the fat if you stop eating fat, add more protein and fat to your diet and moderate exercise, if you already exercise perhaps you need to change up what you do, do more intense amounts of exercise followed by rest.  make sure you are drinking plenty of water and not stressing your body out

[Dorothy]

Ya know - since eating more raw animal foods I just noticed that I got a little cellulite for the first time in my life!

I can't help but to wonder if that's another side affect of the dairy and another reason that I'm giving it up. If it goes away Noel - I will let you know. I'm giving it some time. How long has it been since you gave up the butter?

Btw - I've gone very long periods with eating at least one avocado a day and up to 3 and never any cellulite.

[cobalamin]

I always thought that women got cellulite because of the tight jeans they wear. 

[littleElefant]

Thanks Jessica for your advice,
like you I think fat and protein is very important. But what kind of fat. I can not eat coconut all day and dont think it would be very helthy to do so. Avocado, Nuts, what kind of nuts? What about the pufas in nuts regarding inflamation. Eggs, the ones I get here are (bio)grainfed, lots of omega 6.
How is your diet, Jessica, do you eat fruits?
Dorothy, I think I stoped eating butter 10 Days ago. Still missing it. This raw paleo diet, sometimes I dont know what to eat any more. 
How do you feel so far without dairy?
Are there any women here having had success with raw paleo regarding cellu? Would love to hear something positive.

Noel

[Dorothy]

Noel - I gave up dairy completely because it is the only real change in my diet over the past few years and my bones started to be not as strong. My muscles or cardio would give out before my bones, now my bones are the first to complain. Tyler posted something that would indicate that it might be the dairy. I've gone on and off dairy for weeks or months at a time so I don't think I'm going to be able to tell conclusively immediately but I do feel like my bones so far are getting a little better without it. I think in the next 6 months I will know for sure. The problem was something that must have been slow growing so I doubt if I will be able to know the real deal quickly. It just is the only possible logical conclusion to draw based on my diet that dairy was to blame. Dairy did not make me feel bad in any way other than this surprise bone factor...... and maybe the cellulite???

[jessica]

hi noel,
no i dont eat fruits
i dont think it would be healthful for you to eat a massive amount of coconuts or nut fats or avocados either.  right now my main source of fat is egg yolks and organ meats, but i am getting a bunch of soup and marrow bones and am going to try and up my fat intake with the marrow because i feel like i am lacking energy due to too much protein and not enough fats. maybe you lost some muscle because you tried to exchange higher quality foods(butter and avo's) for lower quality foods (nuts and sprouts)?  do you think perhaps you can find a moderate intake of fats proteins and carbs to eat and try to stick with that, and at the same time find a comfortable level of exercise so that you are gain some tone in the legs but dont lose necessary fat? do you eat salt or any seaweeds?   

[Dorothy]

Jessica - she got the cellulite while eating the butter. She just gave up the butter because she thought it might be responsible for the cellulite.

[CitrusHigh]

From Whackipedia: Causes

The causes of cellulite [10] involve changes in metabolism physiology and dieting too hard or too much, such as sex-specific dimorphic skin architecture, alteration of connective tissue structure, hormonal factors, genetic factors, the microcirculatory system, the extracellular matrix, and subtle inflammatory alterations.[1][2][10][11]

Hormonal factors

Hormones play a dominant role in the formation of cellulite. Estrogen may be the important hormone to initiate and aggravate cellulite. However, there has been no reliable clinical evidence to support such a claim. Other hormones, including insulin, the catecholamines adrenaline and noradrenaline, thyroid hormones, and prolactin, are all believed to participate in the development of cellulite.[2]

Genetic factors

There is a genetic element in individual susceptibility to cellulite.[2] Researchers led by Dr. Enzo Emanuele have traced the genetic component of cellulite to particular polymorphisms in the angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE) and hypoxia-inducible factor 1A (HIF1a) genes.[8]

Predisposing factors

Several factors have been shown to affect the development of cellulite. Sex, race, biotype,[12] distribution of subcutaneous fat, and predisposition to lymphatic and circulatory insufficiency have all been shown to contribute to cellulite.[2]

Lifestyle

A high stress lifestyle will cause an increase in the level of catecholamines, which have also been associated with the evolution of cellulite.[2] Certain dieting practices can also diminish the level of these chemicals, and decreasing body fat typically results in the appearance of cellulite diminishing.
___________________________________________________________

Noel, tell us a bit about your diet and emotional history. Since both hormones and stress (hormones again really) are major players in cellulite we're going to need some background. Aajonus recommends butter and honey I think, for cellulite, but if that's what's causing it for you, maybe your body is making a bunch of estrogen from the butter and that's contributing to the problem. But it may not be the butter itself. We need some background to put things in proper context. If you've been eating lots of cooked foods or processed foods up til now, that would be a factor and I might suggest it's detox. But if you've had a pretty clean diet, then added butter and the problem started could be detox OR just the butter. In the end, you're going to have to experiment to see what works, but if your body likes butter, it might just be a detox symptom and will go away eventually. We can figure it out though, it'll just take some time!

[littleElefant]

Dorothy, for how long have you been raw paleo. Could it be that your terain is to acid so it leaches minerals out of your bones. What does your diet consist of?
 Jessica, the eggs I get are bio but I think heavily grainfed. I have the feeling that they give me inflamation. I am still looking for grainfed animals, the bio meat and organs make me sick. I ate a lot of it but had to stop because I had all kinds of symtoms. So food is a bit scarce at the moment. I have very good fish but it does not satisfies me like meat and fat.
I make green juices often , that should be helpfull I think.
I dont eat salt and seaweed at the moment. Skip the salt because I dont want whater retention and also because I try to eat instinctive.
Thanks Thoth for your post, very interesting,
I had a very stressfull live the last years that might be a big factor. And yes, the last year I eat a lot of cooked food, a lot of sugar, just did every fattening thing to gain weight. Not exactly a clean diet.
butter and honey sounds delicious. but I am going to skip the butter for some time now. So many here have had bad experiences with dairy, I dont whant to risk it getting worse

Noel

[Dorothy]

Dorothy, for how long have you been raw paleo. Could it be that your terain is to acid so it leaches minerals out of your bones. What does your diet consist of?
 

Raw paleo - hard to say exactly - but mostly raw about 30 years. Raw paleo enough years to know this isn't my norm. The only real new thing in the last few years has been the dairy. Before my bones were like rocks. That's why I think it's the dairy. I think it might be throwing off my mineral balance - and I think it just hit the tipping stage. I think the dairy was a slow process of imbalance. Tastes so yummy though! Makes eating raw so much easier! Oh well.

Been off dairy for probably a couple of weeks now and the cellulite looks like it's almost gone. I found this raw dairy that I really loved and went out there and got raw cream and was enjoying it so much that I was eating it every day with my fruit for about a week - and that's when the problems hit the surface. I'm really glad I brought it to a head so that I could finally figure out that dairy wasn't good for me. I never felt bad from it so didn't realize until I ate enough at it once and my body finally told me. I think I had my fingers in my ears. I LOVED eating dairy. My diet is very limited and giving up the dairy that I spent years learning how to procure and prepare was a big blow to me.

But I like my bones strong and my skin without cellulite!

[littleElefant]

Dorothy, tell me, what du you eat at a normal day and how mutch.

I am of dairy now for 2 weeks or so but til now nothing changed
Perhaps I still eat to mutch plant matter like veggies and some fruit. Or it is because I have a lot of meals at the moment.
I had so mutch indigestion the last month,so right now I try eating everything mono, then wait and eat the second thing and so on. It takes a lot of discipline and often I mix anyway

Noel

[CitrusHigh]

Under those circumstances Noel, the stress and cooked food and sugar, I would not blame dairy/butter just yet. That kind of stress and food builds up after time and takes a while to get it out of your tissue and bone.  I cannot stress (lol) enough, how detrimental emotional anxiety is for the body. I would say the diet is the first most important part of health, but then just directly after would come emotional health, because eating shitty exacerbates emotional stress, as does feeling sick or unhappy about your skin.

Are you able to get 100% grassfed suet? And was your raw butter 100% grass fed? It is crucial, IF you're going to consume dairy that it be all grassfed and raw, we take that for granted here, but we shouldn't because some people might not realize that. I was eating factory meat for the first many months, up to a year RVAF, then I shaped up.

Also there's a ton of other things in your diet that could be causing it as well.  What 'country' are you in? Can you meet farmers face to face?

[CitrusHigh]

I'd definitely stick with the green juices though, and maybe consume them with a fat.

You're basically going to have to experiment a whole bunch, and improve your diet and lower stress levels (do you do any form of meditation or soothing/centering?)

But you have to get your system clean clean clean first before you can tell whether a given symptom is detox or just food intolerance.

A clean system means tons of green, low sugar, fresh, raw veggies juices, should contain lots of parsley and cilantro, i mean tons of the stuff.

It also means eating only grass fed organic meats/eggs/fat/animal foods

And I would avoid the dairy too until that time.
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If that's not possible, ok, but do your absolute best, if I were in your place, knowing what I do now, I would make it as high a priority as your circumstances allow.

Also cut out any vectors of toxicity: chemical hygeine products, chemicals in general, drugs, alcohol, and all processed and cooked foods. We'll figure it out, just takes time. This is part of my education too (learning the nature of cellulite) , so aside from wanting to help you, I'm invested for that reason also.

Cheers and nice skin!

[Dorothy]

Dorothy, tell me, what du you eat at a normal day and how mutch.

I am of dairy now for 2 weeks or so but til now nothing changed
Perhaps I still eat to mutch plant matter like veggies and some fruit. Or it is because I have a lot of meals at the moment.
I had so mutch indigestion the last month,so right now I try eating everything mono, then wait and eat the second thing and so on. It takes a lot of discipline and often I mix anyway

Noel

I eat mostly raw veggies and fruit (berries) Noel with some soaked nuts/seeds and relatively infrequent fat,fish,eggs,meat compared to most people here and have a very long time so I know those two things (veggies/fruit) wouldn't cause cellulite for me. But everyone's different of course.

Thoth gave you some sage advise. If you are eating cooked foods and sugar I'd imagine it's hard to evaluate anything past that. My diet has been pretty stable a long time with only a few things changing here or there over long test periods so I am better able to judge what would have caused the cellulite. It also showed up at a time when my dairy intake increased. It was pretty self-evident for me. I also ONLY ate raw grassfed so know that wasn't part of the equation for me. 

Sugar and sweets I would imagine would be top contenders in the search for the cause from what I learned about how sugars are used and stored in the body. If the dairy isn't changing anything Thoth's suggestions make sense.

I hope you get results soon!

[littleElefant]

Thoth,

thank you so mutch for your anser
You are right, emotional health is at least as important as healthy eating and one affects the other.
I was so anxious and scared the last years. My husband was very, very ill, I have 2 kids. The last years were just fear and worries. Could not really eat any more, so I lost a lot of weight. So mutch that I hardly could function any more, I felt always nauseous, I was sulperweak and sometimes I lost conciousness. I started kind of forcefeeding myself to regain weight and strenght for my family. I  could not gain weight the healthy raw way so I started cooking a lot. At that time I did not care about my health at all, just wanted to be strong.
Now  my husband is better , I gained a lot of weight back and little by littel I am able to relax. I work on letting go of my fears.
I feel sort of poisent though after all this time and see it on my body.
I sure have a lot to detox now. But I should not loose any weight! Dont want to be so skinny any more (I think I am traumatized )

The green  juice idea sounds good. I love green juices. I feel relived that you dont tell me to just eat more raw meat.
You seems to be an expert so now I have a lot of questions 
Would carrot be ok in the juice ?
Do you mean drinking a juice several times a day?
How mutch meat, fish, eggs and fat would be appropriate for bulding and cleaning without causing new toxity. (I am 1,65 m, 43 kg)
Could eggs cause a problem because they are so high in Omega 6 (inflamation) I love eggs.
What kind of fat would be good.
What about Nuts, Seeds.
Is Durian a ok Fruit???
And what about eating time, sequential eating or mixing, fasting times etc, what would be optimal in your opinion?

You are totally right I have to find raw grasfed animal sources. I live in France close to the the sea so I have always fresh seafood. Eggs and meat grasfed is difficult to come by and expensive. Normaly I just buy the organic stuff but I can feel that it makes ma sick. I will order proper gras fed meet now. 
Is it true that gras fed meat has such a positiv Omega 3 ration that it  will not cause any inflamations in your body? Is it in a way like eating fish?


Noel

[littleElefant]

Dorothy, that's amazing,
I thought everybody eats loads of raw animal food here
In freakwent meat, eggs, fish, what do you mean by this. I am sorry for all this questioning thing, I just try to find a new direction. You are on this diet for 30 years and you are still very healthy and posit iv, that makes me curious and I would like to have more details  
About what kind of nuts you eat, what raw animal food, how often you eat , it you prepare your food and why you don't eat more animal food like I think most people on this forum do?
For the fruit, do you eat just berries or other fruits as well, Do you mix them?

 :)Noel

[Suiren]

Interesting topic!

I have been on a similar high fat diet to gain weight (with not as much success atm)

- Raw Butter, Avocado, cold pressed olive oil, macadamia and cashew nuts.

I eat about 4-7 slices or lettuce wraps with 5mm thick chunks of raw butter a day. I started this 3 months ago, and at first my weight went up. But since transitioning to raw paleo I also started cutting out more and more carbs and lost some of the weight again

I never noticed any cellulite along the way, and was actually assuming that raw fats are not prone to cause cellulite? (read something about cooked fats being harmful).
I never really had cellulite other than in pregnancy though, but it went away gradually after birth. Not sure if I fed it to my baby lol  ...but I am still exclusively breastfeeding at 10 months pp, so maybe that did something too?

Anyhow, I wanted to say I know the struggle of gaining weight. For me my body always "wants" to be at this 'not extremely low, but not as high as I want it to be' weight. I have been in the 46-49 kg range since I was 15 and never seem to be able to get past the magic 50 (other than pregnancy, must have been 53 without my baby, placenta etc. but I lost it ).
My thought was that my body does not gain much on carbs or not enough at least.

Btw. not sure if you walk a lot, but we do and I am sure it would do something for your thigh muscles and cellu. without too much effort.
We walk 40mins to the supermarket with the stroller and back 40mins every 3-5 days, must look very funny. ^^

[Ferocious]

Dorothy, for how long have you been raw paleo. Could it be that your terain is to acid so it leaches minerals out of your bones. What does your diet consist of?
 Jessica, the eggs I get are bio but I think heavily grainfed. I have the feeling that they give me inflamation. I am still looking for grainfed animals, the bio meat and organs make me sick. I ate a lot of it but had to stop because I had all kinds of symtoms. So food is a bit scarce at the moment. I have very good fish but it does not satisfies me like meat and fat.
I make green juices often , that should be helpfull I think.
I dont eat salt and seaweed at the moment. Skip the salt because I dont want whater retention and also because I try to eat instinctive.
Thanks Thoth for your post, very interesting,
I had a very stressfull live the last years that might be a big factor. And yes, the last year I eat a lot of cooked food, a lot of sugar, just did every fattening thing to gain weight. Not exactly a clean diet.
butter and honey sounds delicious. but I am going to skip the butter for some time now. So many here have had bad experiences with dairy, I dont whant to risk it getting worse

Noel

I can't help but notice you wrote "bio". Do you happen to live in Germany?

[Suiren]

I can't help but notice you wrote "bio". Do you happen to live in Germany?

I thought the same when I saw the double "ll" in helpful -> like voll, because I have written it like that too ^^ lol.

[Dorothy]

Dorothy, that's amazing,
I thought everybody eats loads of raw animal food here
In freakwent meat, eggs, fish, what do you mean by this. I am sorry for all this questioning thing, I just try to find a new direction. You are on this diet for 30 years and you are still very healthy and posit iv, that makes me curious and I would like to have more details  
About what kind of nuts you eat, what raw animal food, how often you eat , it you prepare your food and why you don't eat more animal food like I think most people on this forum do?
For the fruit, do you eat just berries or other fruits as well, Do you mix them?

 :)Noel

Hey Noel,

First, I want to say that I never had cellulite before even with eating lots of fat (in my view) and not exercising at all. I think it's all about diet.

I was a vegan and a full vegetarian for about 20 years or so, so haven't been raw paleo for 30 years. Raw vegan worked well except I couldn't keep it up without getting too "antsy" for the lack of a better word after 3-6 months - so I'd add in some cooked foods again going back and forth. Adding in some raw animal foods here and there seems to be the missing key to being able to stay all raw and grounded. To tell you the truth I'm not sure I've ever really done raw paleo because I do things like soak, dehydrate and blend my nuts and seeds into a cream and I make raw soups. I like to make raw vegan crackers and treats too. I'm pretty sure they didn't have blenders and dehydrators in paleo times.   As far as fruit goes I eat mostly berries (I eat them most days with my nut cream - so yummy!) with some other fruits here and there. Today for instance I had a peach! Yum. But I can't overdo the fruit - I could never be a fruitarian.  I eat salads and my raw soup a lot (most days I'll have one or the other). How much I eat things and how often changes week to week. But I eat red meat only once every month usually - but then I went one week having it 3 times and another time I went 2 months without any since I've introduced raw red meat after finding this forum. Seafood I like a lot and often want it - probably a couple of times a week on average. How many eggs I eat also really changes. I will go weeks eating more than a dozen and other weeks not eating any.

Although I'm not attracted to eating as much meat as people here seem to be, this is the ONLY place where I can find support eating an all raw diet that includes animal foods and I feel that raw paleo would be ideal for my husband (been making progress there ). Raw vegans tend to be a little nutso in the blame and attack area when anyone brings up the idea of eating anything from animals - even when I talked about eating eggs from my spoiled rotten chickens. I eat what feels right to me and makes me feel good. Especially without the dairy a raw paleo diet seems to be the closest "diet" to what I'm drawn to eat albeit that I tend to eat more to the produce side of the equation than most. I don't juice very often at all because I need the fiber to not have the sugars affect me adversely.

The only really new food in the last few years has been the dairy so it was easier for me to figure out that it was the culprit. It's interesting that it was the one real non-paleo food besides my blenderized things that I ate. I'm not willing to give up my nutcream and soup just to be able to fully call myself raw paleo though.

Btw, my creme I make using all sorts of nuts and seeds. I soak and dehydrate many and then use them to make my creme so it's a little different each time. I add dates and seasonings.

I've been though the periods of too much stress and life pounding down to be able to deal with diet. There was one period recently for me that so incredibly stressful past anything I thought I could tolerate though where I was pretty sure that raw salmon and raw egg yolks saved me. It can be hard to bounce back - I know - it's been hard for me - but I'm convinced that eating really well is the foundation for rebuilding. The thing to figure out is what it is that YOU as an individual need, not what someone else has needed. It's not all that easy but worth the effort. What I eat or anyone else here eats specifically might not be ideal for you. Only you can figure it out for you. No one seems to lecture here on what is "right" or "the only way" which I really like. There are so many great ideas to try though!

I think cellulite has to do with eating fats that your body doesn't like - that's my assumption. Doesn't look like avocados, good oils, seeds, avocados, suet, fatty fish or bone marrow or fruit/honey or veggies ever did it for me - just raw grass-fed dairy - go figure. But for other here they say that raw grass-fed dairy was a real life saver and great for them. 

My suggestion is to only eat what you can find raw from really good sources at least at first because then you won't know if it's the actual food that bothers you or the fact that it isn't well farmed. Eat the best foods that are available to you where you are. It's going to be different for people here because this is an international community. For instance, who knows if I wouldn't eat more meat if I could get it unfrozen? In Texas, it's impossible unless you raise and slaughter your own animals. I think the key is learning to understand what your body is asking for and trust it.

I hope this has been even a little helpful to you.

[RawZi]

Dairy did not make me feel bad in any way other than this surprise bone factor...... and maybe the cellulite???

    Butter got rid of cellulite for me. I can't speak for milk or food combinations as far as that goes. Actually, maybe milk causes cellulite come to think of it. While even in Junior High all the other girls than me had a little cellulite, I had none till my thirties, and I almost always avoided milk (not pushed to drink as child and became vegan).  I assume most of my classmates drank milk.

[Dorothy]

I drank milk as a child but never since including the last few years. I've only had quark, whey, cheeses and butter in recent years. My body didn't like drinking straight milk - only the fermented products. Drinking milk I knew wasn't good for me.

[jessica]

i started taking gelatin a few days ago after having some severe joint pain(i have a LOT of old injuries that are really sensitive to inflammation) and have been reading up on it and have found many anecdotes about its helpfulness in riding cellulite.  i am actually pretty glad i have started taking it and have been pain free the last two days, i bought great lakes brand which is supposed to be from grass fed animals, its a whole lot easier for me then boiling bone stock, so its not raw, but it may be something worth looking into

[Dorothy]

How do you make it, eat it, flavor it Jessica?