raw organic fermented soy sauce

[svrn]

How bad is it really to eat a little soy sauce (of the highest quality) to flavor your food? I had some raw meat with soy sauce at the local raw meat restaurant here in nyc and it went incredibly with the meat and wasabi.

Now theres no need to rehash the evils of soy that everyone here probably knows so well. Iv just heard that it isnt as bad for you when raw organic non gmo and fermented.

I just want peoples thought on whether a little bit of soy sauce of the highest quality would affect one badly since it was so delicious with my meat.

[jessica]

sounds like you had a great dinner.
i used to be super allergic to soy and havent had any for at least 5 years, but if i were out at a raw meat place with some dank soy sauce i would probably dip and not worry about it:)

[svrn]

indeed. soy sauce and wasabi just go so perfectly with raw meat.

[Dorothy]

We use nama shoyu all the time. It's raw - meaning they don't pasteurize or heat it - so it is much like miso in that it is filled with good bacteria. It is a wonderful flavor indeed. Ginger added to the horseradish is also a show stopper. I use my horseradish from my garden and fresh ginger - or at least dried at low temps from the fresh in sauces. It's particularly good with raw fish.

[Ferocious]

We use nama shoyu all the time. It's raw - meaning they don't pasteurize or heat it - so it is much like miso in that it is filled with good bacteria. It is a wonderful flavor indeed. Ginger added to the horseradish is also a show stopper. I use my horseradish from my garden and fresh ginger - or at least dried at low temps from the fresh in sauces. It's particularly good with raw fish.

It's actually not raw and contains wheat, and I am allergic to gluten. Anyone know one that is actually raw without wheat?

[CitrusHigh]

Ferocious is saying that apparently like beer, the grains get cooked first then culture added, and you wind up with a product that is alive, but not truly raw.

This is what I came up with when I went digging, Ferocious. I'm glad you asked because I love soy sauce, and would use it more if it wasn't cooked and didn't have the grains. This recipe is not ideal, and I'm sure there's an even healthier passable substitute out there, but this is good enough for me.

http://vegetarian.about.com/od/rawfoodsrecipes/r/homemade-nama-shoyu.htm

[Ferocious]

Ferocious is saying that apparently like beer, the grains get cooked first then culture added, and you wind up with a product that is alive, but not truly raw.

This is what I came up with when I went digging, Ferocious. I'm glad you asked because I love soy sauce, and would use it more if it wasn't cooked and didn't have the grains. This recipe is not ideal, and I'm sure there's an even healthier passable substitute out there, but this is good enough for me.

http://vegetarian.about.com/od/rawfoodsrecipes/r/homemade-nama-shoyu.htm

That's interesting! Have you tried it? Does it taste anything like soy sauce?

I hate that wheat is even included in the recipe of most soy sauces. Real soy sauce shouldn't even have wheat in it.

[Ferocious]

Ferocious is saying that apparently like beer, the grains get cooked first then culture added, and you wind up with a product that is alive, but not truly raw.

This is what I came up with when I went digging, Ferocious. I'm glad you asked because I love soy sauce, and would use it more if it wasn't cooked and didn't have the grains. This recipe is not ideal, and I'm sure there's an even healthier passable substitute out there, but this is good enough for me.

http://vegetarian.about.com/od/rawfoodsrecipes/r/homemade-nama-shoyu.htm

I have found something else that's made from coconut sap but tastes like soy sauce, and is "raw"

http://www.j3nn.net/2011/03/04/coconut-aminos-soy-sauce-substitute-with-65-less-sodium-soy-free-raw-vegan/

It seems to be good! of course, it contains salt which is not good, but I'm okay with that at least sometimes

[CitrusHigh]

I haven't tried it yet ferocious but with my experience with soggy portabellos makes me confident it would be at least delicious if not an exact duplicate!

I haven't tried the coconut aminos yet, but I'm intrigued, I just want to know how they extract them.

[Dorothy]

Yeah - when I said not pasteurized or heated to high temps like raw misos are - of course that doesn't mean that the base isn't cooked before. It's just that the bacteria from the fermentation process aren't killed.

That coconut stuff I've just GOT to try. Thanks so much for posting the link! Didn't know there was any alternative at all. The portobello I can't imagine will come anywhere close and....  would it stay ok in the fridge you think? It might taste good - just can't imagine it tasting like nama shoyu/soy sauce.

The wheat/gluten thing doesn't bother me at all - but it must be a real pain when trying to get processed anything or eating out or with family. It is in everything.

I have that problem with canola oil. If I go out anywhere they seem to put that toxic crap in everything these days. It's hard for me even to get a salad without it. I tried to get a rare steak once but was smart enough to ask if it had any oil on it and they said that it had canola oil on it so I had to leave.

[svrn]

i justhad the coconut aminos with some sirloin suet and liver. it tasted great and i think it made the digestion smoother.

[Ferocious]

i justhad the coconut aminos with some sirloin suet and liver. it tasted great and i think it made the digestion smoother.

Awesome. This is what they messaged me when I asked if it is unheated:

Hi Ronald,
 
Thank you so much for your interest in our products.  The sap flows from the severed blossoms of the coconut tree.  There is no “extraction” process; the sap flows naturally and is collected every few hours around the clock.  We offer four products derived from the sap of the tree . . . the Aminos, Vinegar, Crystals and Nectar.  The sap is highly prone to fermentation.  In the case of the Nectar and Crystals, we arrest the fermentation immediately by exposing the sap to temperatures in the range of 105 degrees Fahrenheit, using a low temperature vacuum evaporation process.  In the case of the Aminos, we allow the natural aging process to continue from 6-8 weeks.  At this point we apply a modest temperature of around 105 degrees which, as with the Nectar/Crystals, serves to arrest the fermentation. The Vinegar is allowed to complete the entire cycle of fermentation.  No heat is necessary.
 
I welcome you to visit our website at www.coconutsecret.com.  This will provide you with more detailed information on our company and all of our products.
 
Please let me know if I can be of further help.
 
Blessings,
 
Zoë

[Dorothy]

I'm going to be ordering next month from this bulk buying thingy called Azure Standards. I need bigger cheaper bags of seeds for sprouting for my chickens. They have the coconut aminos so I will get some delivered with my order.

[svrn]

Awesome. This is what they messaged me when I asked if it is unheated:

Hi Ronald,
 
Thank you so much for your interest in our products.  The sap flows from the severed blossoms of the coconut tree.  There is no “extraction” process; the sap flows naturally and is collected every few hours around the clock.  We offer four products derived from the sap of the tree . . . the Aminos, Vinegar, Crystals and Nectar.  The sap is highly prone to fermentation.  In the case of the Nectar and Crystals, we arrest the fermentation immediately by exposing the sap to temperatures in the range of 105 degrees Fahrenheit, using a low temperature vacuum evaporation process.  In the case of the Aminos, we allow the natural aging process to continue from 6-8 weeks.  At this point we apply a modest temperature of around 105 degrees which, as with the Nectar/Crystals, serves to arrest the fermentation. The Vinegar is allowed to complete the entire cycle of fermentation.  No heat is necessary.
 
I welcome you to visit our website at www.coconutsecret.com.  This will provide you with more detailed information on our company and all of our products.
 
Please let me know if I can be of further help.
 
Blessings,
 
Zoë

those motherfuckers. im so tired of people claiming things are raw when they are not. people should get sued for this stuff. someone needs to really oversee this raw stuff. perhaps I can start a raw certification company and make some money.

another falsely advertised product going straight to the trash.

[Dorothy]

105 degrees is considered raw generally. It gets much hotter than that in the tropics in the sun where the product grows. What are you reacting to Troll? It's definitely better than nama shoyu or soy sauces or braggs it seems.

[TylerDurden]

105 degrees is considered raw generally. It gets much hotter than that in the tropics in the sun where the product grows. What are you reacting to Troll? It's definitely better than nama shoyu or soy sauces or braggs it seems.

Actually 104 is considered the upper limit in raw-meat-diet circles.

[svrn]

i consider below 96 to be raw. and heating an entire solution to 105 degrees is completely different than a whole fruit for example sitting in a 105 degree environment.

[Dorothy]

The number is kind of mushy in the raw vegan circles and it is a vegan product. Anywhere from 104 to 108 is the usual that I've seen.

All those numbers don't mean squat because there are no laws - and even no agreement as to what is "raw" or "live" is and what it isn't.

Most of the companies are really just schmucks trying to make money out of the new craze anyway. Most of the time the labels are meaningless. Most of the things labelled raw have things in them that are highly heated like maple syrup. Raw food has become a big money maker. But there are some that are really trying. This one might be one of those. 105 is A LOT better than most of the bottles products on the market for anything. The question is always though - how to verify it. I was told for years someone in my neighborhood was making this raw cacao product only to find out that I spent lots of money when he already knew that it wasn't raw, never was raw and was never going to be raw. Lots of scams out there.

I can totally relate to Troll's feelings in general. I just don't see how this one in particular is necessarily not being honest about being raw.

[Dorothy]

i consider below 96 to be raw. and heating an entire solution to 105 degrees is completely different than a whole fruit for example sitting in a 105 degree environment.

Hey Troll. I posted at the same time as you did above.

In the general raw community which are mostly vegans 96 is not considered the upper limit even with products like honey which are affected above 96 dramatically. You will always have to ask the manufacturer of any product you buy the temperatures and there are going to be almost none that will say that it was never heated above 96 degrees. Here in Texas even shipping will bring it above that.

[svrn]

well vegans dont know crap. For example, after leaving my honey home on trip just now during some very hot days, I opened my cupboard upon returning and it looked different from the honey that didnt stay in that heat tasted different and gave me a worse feeling. I dont understand what so hard about just not applying heat to your products. I would love it if my coconut aminos were extra fermented.

[Dorothy]

When I lived in Florida Troll where my palms trees were I measured the temperature there in the sun and it was 150 degrees where in the backyard in the shade it was 80. Products that get delivered here to Texas in summer are all going to be highly heated unless iced and actually it's the same across the country in the summer because the delivery trucks are not cooled. The heat really builds up in the trucks.

With honey here the bees in the hive keep the honey cool by flapping their wings like crazy, but the moment you open the hive in 108 degrees there's no way to keep even the best and most thoroughly conscientiously harvested honey truly raw. That's why it's always best to make your own ferments if you can. I'm going to also get a bee next year after the garden is finished. I just can't get honey that's good enough to eat around here. Any ferments in jars are considered to me to be sources of pre-digestion and protein - not lots of good bacteria.

There are very few products that are not heated before being put into glass or cans. If they leave foods that are vulnerable to fermentation so that it will continue to ferment if the product got into the right temperature to really take off the glass could explode during delivery or in your home from the built up pressure. It's a matter of practicality with manufactured products - not because it's vegan.

[svrn]

Iv been using the coconut aminos a lot lately and havent noticed any problems. Its been making my meals taste a lot better. I mix it with some raw fermented tomatillo hot sauce and dip my meat in there. it makes it taste so much better and gets me really salivating which is the reason I think things have been digesting better after having added it. Perhaps theres something in the aminos that help digestion though besides just making me salivate.

[Chris]

Soy Sauce? Soy mentioned with the RPD sounds sacrilegious! 

[Dorothy]

Chris - his coconut substitute is a little big like when vegans call a dish "mock tuna".

[PaleoPhil]

Soy Sauce? Soy mentioned with the RPD sounds sacrilegious! 

What about tamarind? That's a legume; do you consider eating that to also be sacrilegious? I don't doubt that it was done with some humor, yet I think we might be better served if we disposed of using the term "sacrilege" in reference to our dietary habits. What say let's leave that to the most extreme of the vegans and other fanatics, eh?