Author Topic: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm  (Read 10738 times)

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Offline RawZi

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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2012, 02:12:12 am »
About time! I'm glad that Aajonus has more youtube videos of him now.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline Projectile Vomit

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2012, 05:39:31 am »
For all my criticisms of AV, I have to say he handled this video exquisitely well. He held to the facts and didn't get defensive, two big marks in his favor.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2012, 12:49:18 pm »
For all my criticisms of AV, I have to say he handled this video exquisitely well. He held to the facts and didn't get defensive, two big marks in his favor.

Yeah, he handled it very well.

On another note, I wish DR the full consequences of his diet.  I hope he eats it until it kills him.

Offline Ferocious

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2012, 06:26:11 pm »
Yeah, he handled it very well.

On another note, I wish DR the full consequences of his diet.  I hope he eats it until it kills him.
You mean the dairy right?

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2012, 10:03:50 pm »
I think he means the high carbs Durian Rider eats.

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2012, 10:25:38 pm »
Now THAT'S how an alpha handles a situation. Calm, knows his power, states his truth. He has no need to get all riled up with the weak upstart that goes around screaming "look at me, look at me - I'm better - I'm better than you - I'm in power, I deserve for everyone to listen because me, me, me! Not you. You're less than me. I'm the ONLY one that should lead!" AV simply says, well actually, just to be clear, THIS is what I do. That's all.

Well-done AV. Makes me want to read more of your books because that's a brain that's functioning well.

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2012, 10:47:01 pm »
Couldn't agree more Dorothy. I just called up wewant2live to let them know how much I appreciate the videos, and specifically that he didn't retaliate, only clarified, calmly. When you have the truth on your side, you don't need to shout! The truth shouts for you!

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2012, 11:26:39 am »
I think he means the high carbs Durian Rider eats.

Yes.

I'm done being helpful with DR.  The only use he has for me is as a negative object lesson for other people. If he'll at least have the courage to eat that low-fat fruit diet until it kills him, then we can at least point to his example as why that diet is dangerous in the long-term.

Offline svrn

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2012, 11:32:34 pm »
durianrider is the archetypal raw vegan and acts just like most of the other raw vegans I know. Very high strung, uppity, and irritable.

av acts like the archetypal primal/paleo dieter whose nerves are calm centered and focused due to the high raw fat content.
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Offline Dorothy

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2012, 12:17:10 am »
I never was anything like DR when vegan. I keep on wondering what the difference was?

I wonder if it's something about b12. I wonder if I was able to make my own or something. What I don't understand is how they can't recognize it in themselves or others that something is wrong.

When I started hanging out on a raw vegan forum I became flabbergasted at the denial. People would say things like I'm getting tingling down my arms, I'm depressed, I can't think straight, I'm not sleeping, I'm having trouble with this and that, my teeth are rotting etc. and still not question their diets.

The difference here is the questioning. I don't see people here experiencing negatives and going into denial about it and keep on doing what they are doing anyway. It's because for most here it doesn't seem to be a strong belief system running their actions and no guru pushing them forward into denial. It's experimenting and seeing what works best. That might have been the difference between me and them earlier too as that's how I've always approached diet. There were no gurus when I started experimenting with eating raw foods. I think all these gurus these days can be pretty detrimental and perhaps the most detrimental of all of them is DR imho. He teaches people to deny what their bodies tell them and push ahead in spite of it.


Offline svrn

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2012, 01:01:39 am »
were you a low fat vegan? I feel like the biggest problems come from having so much sugar and so little fat.
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Offline Dorothy

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2012, 01:25:18 am »
No I was never a low fat vegan because I didn't know that there was such a thing or that raw meant vegan or otherwise. I was just eating "raw" to the best of my knowledge base -which was minuscule since I never met anyone else doing it for many years and there was no internet. I ate as much fat as I possibly could and never could eat that much fruit and feel good. I got the best oils I could and even made some, soaked and dehydrated lots of nuts and seeds and ate at least one avocado a day. My husband just a few minutes called me "The Avocado Monster" over to pick out an avocado for him.

It's still the way I eat now except it's a lot easier, cheaper and faster to meet my fat needs with raw animal foods.


Offline freezerburn

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2012, 01:30:20 am »
I never was anything like DR when vegan. I keep on wondering what the difference was?

I wonder if it's something about b12. I wonder if I was able to make my own or something. What I don't understand is how they can't recognize it in themselves or others that something is wrong.

When I started hanging out on a raw vegan forum I became flabbergasted at the denial. People would say things like I'm getting tingling down my arms, I'm depressed, I can't think straight, I'm not sleeping, I'm having trouble with this and that, my teeth are rotting etc. and still not question their diets.

The difference here is the questioning. I don't see people here experiencing negatives and going into denial about it and keep on doing what they are doing anyway. It's because for most here it doesn't seem to be a strong belief system running their actions and no guru pushing them forward into denial. It's experimenting and seeing what works best. That might have been the difference between me and them earlier too as that's how I've always approached diet. There were no gurus when I started experimenting with eating raw foods. I think all these gurus these days can be pretty detrimental and perhaps the most detrimental of all of them is DR imho. He teaches people to deny what their bodies tell them and push ahead in spite of it.



It is possible that the microflora in your gut were able to synthesize a moderate amount of B12.  There has been some pretty exciting work done on the different microbial ecosystems that establish in people with different diets.  Unfortunately the studies have not included individuals following a raw paleo diet, nor did they include studies of the Inuit.  But, the basic findings within the general population were that there are three typical ecosystems that seem to be established with fairly typical diets, where the diet leads to the ecosystem that gets established.  The balance in this ecosystem can be changed fairly quickly in response to a change in diet.  About 500 different species of microbes have been identified that function in the intestines.

Offline Projectile Vomit

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2012, 04:26:08 am »
Freezerburn, can you offer any books, articles or links regarding the different gut ecosystems?

Offline freezerburn

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2012, 12:25:54 am »
Freezerburn, can you offer any books, articles or links regarding the different gut ecosystems?

The info is quite new and is not in any books that I am aware of.  Do a search of "enterotypes" and you will have access to 'some' of the research.   You will mostly find abstracts and reviews of the scientific study that was done. 

An enterotype refers to a gut ecosystem that is characterized by very different microbial communities in the gut.   The three entertypes they found were Type I Bacteroides (found in diets high in protein and sat fat), Type II Prevotella (diets high in simple sugars and carbs - vegetarians and frugivores) and Type III Ruminococcus (diets high in sat fats and alcohol!).  To me this study is a great starting point and could prove very useful in understanding gut mediated disease....LOL most disease.

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2012, 01:03:09 am »
That's mighty interesting Freezerburn.

How I got into diet in the first place was because a naturopath put me on a 3 week cleansing diet that changed my entire personality and life almost over night. Then another alternative doctor figured out that I had a very bad candida problem (why the diet worked like it did) from many years on broad-spectrum antibiotics as a child so I dosed myself massively with all sorts of different probiotics constantly for many years and I still love bacteria-rich foods. I worked very hard at rebuilding my gut flora. I ate foods to feed the flora and cut out foods I thought would hurt my flora.

The microbial community that lived in my gut was well-fed, reinforced, loved and deeply appreciated and I bet it did grow to be bacteria that would flourish with a plant-based diet. I wouldn't be surprised if that had something to do with my success.

If I ate simple sugars though it would mess things up so I'm wondering about that Type 1 category. Complex carbs were always fine but eating even a tiny bit of processed sugar would throw me for a big loop in my gut and my whole body, too much sweet fruit was always bad - a little here and there ok. With my present diet I eat berries as my main fruit/carb source (but have to be careful not to over-do even these - or I would like to eat nothing but berries and nuts all the time) and greens/veggies were a perfect fit always making me feel good. Animal foods for me (probably because my gut flora has been built up so many years for the above diet?)  are not my main food source and it feels very wrong when I attempt to make them so. They are important to be included - but they are not the bulk of my diet. It makes me wonder if it's simply because my gut community isn't of that enterotype or broader factors?

Offline freezerburn

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2012, 01:12:34 am »
That's mighty interesting Freezerburn.

How I got into diet in the first place was because a naturopath put me on a 3 week cleansing diet that changed my entire personality and life almost over night. Then another alternative doctor figured out that I had a very bad candida problem (why the diet worked like it did) from many years on broad-spectrum antibiotics as a child so I dosed myself massively with all sorts of different probiotics constantly for many years and I still love bacteria-rich foods. I worked very hard at rebuilding my gut flora. I ate foods to feed the flora and cut out foods I thought would hurt my flora.

The microbial community that lived in my gut was well-fed, reinforced, loved and deeply appreciated and I bet it did grow to be bacteria that would flourish with a plant-based diet. I wouldn't be surprised if that had something to do with my success.

If I ate simple sugars though it would mess things up so I'm wondering about that Type 1 category. Complex carbs were always fine but eating even a tiny bit of processed sugar would throw me for a big loop in my gut and my whole body, too much sweet fruit was always bad - a little here and there ok. With my present diet I eat berries as my main fruit/carb source (but have to be careful not to over-do even these - or I would like to eat nothing but berries and nuts all the time) and greens/veggies were a perfect fit always making me feel good. Animal foods for me (probably because my gut flora has been built up so many years for the above diet?)  are not my main food source and it feels very wrong when I attempt to make them so. They are important to be included - but they are not the bulk of my diet. It makes me wonder if it's simply because my gut community isn't of that enterotype or broader factors?

What is interesting is that the enterotype is not necessarily in fixed proportions and it is dynamic and can have many other bacterial groups in higher proportions.  Say you eat sucrose, then you will favor certain microbes.  Eat fruit higher in fructose, you would favor other microbes all present in that typical enterotype community. 

Really, I think this study is really just a gateway that might help us understand why some dietary changes are so beneficial.  This also sheds light on why various endemic peoples have experienced success of very different diets.  We are so quick to assume it is genetics or epigenetics, when in fact it may be a microbial answer.... or a combination of all of the above!!!

Offline freezerburn

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Re: Video: AV's Response to DurianRider attacks on HIm
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2012, 03:11:45 am »
Really this should be a thread in another section (feel free moderators) but an interesting more recent article from Nature reads:

Gut microbial 'enterotypes' become less clear-cut
Communities of gut bacteria may form a spectrum rather than falling into distinct groups.

Ed Yong
21 March 2012
PARIS

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Each of us has trillions of bacteria in our guts. These communities vary greatly between individuals, but a paper published in Nature last year1 indicated that they fall into just three distinct types — enterotypes — defined by their bacterial composition (see ‘Gut study divides people into three types’). Each enterotype is characterized by relatively high levels of a single microbial genus: Bacteroides, Prevotella, or Ruminococcus, respectively.

But new data presented at the International Human Microbiome Congress in Paris yesterday suggest that the boundaries between the enterotypes may be fuzzier than the earlier work suggested.


The bacterial communities in your gut may not fall into one of three distinct groups.
PROFESSORS P. MOTTA & F. CARPINO/UNIVER- SITY "LA SAPIENZA", ROME/SPL
Manimozhiyan Arumugam at the European Molecular Biology Laboratory in Heidelberg, Germany, an author on the original enterotype paper, revealed that the team has repeated the analysis with 663 Danish and Spanish adults, many more people than the original cohort of 39.

The results, as yet unpublished, show that a genus of archaea called Methanobrevibacter joins Ruminococcus as a defining microbe in the third enterotype. And the separation between this cluster and the Bacteroides-led enterotype is no longer as clear, although these two groups remain distinct from the Prevotella-driven one.

Breaking down the boundaries even further, Dan Knights, a computational biologist at the University of Colorado at Boulder, told the conference that discrete enterotypes may not exist at all. His team has sequenced the gut microbes of more than 1,200 adults and found a continuum of communities, from Bacteroides-driven ones at one end to Prevotella-driven ones at the other. His results have been submitted to PLoS Computational Biology.

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“Discrete clustering of gut microbial communities is a very strong claim. Unfortunately, there is a lack of strong evidence [for it],” says Knights. “There’s a gradient and the enterotypes are concentrated areas within that. It’s not discrete like a blood type.”

But most people in Knights’ study fall at the extreme ends of his gradient, defined by Bacteroides and Prevotella, respectively. “The boundaries may be blurred but the differences between the extremes are still there. They’re different ecosystems,” says Jeroen Raes, a co-author on the Nature paper, who is now at the research institute VIB in Ghent, Belgium.

Dusko Ehrlich, another author on the Nature paper, still firmly believes in the concept. “These guys convinced everyone that enterotypes are real after long and hard struggles. Now, we can debate how deep the divide is.”

Rob Knight from the University of Colorado in Boulder, who was involved in Knights’ study, says, “There’s this great diversity and we all agree that reducing that complexity and linking it to clinical traits is really important. The disagreement’s about what the actual structure is.”

This disagreement matters because enterotypes might eventually affect how we weigh a person’s risk of disease, or their response to different drugs. Last year, a study in Science found that the Bacteroides enterotype was associated with diets high in fat or protein, whereas the Prevotella enterotype was associated with a high-carbohydrate diet2. And at the conference Oluf Pedersen, a molecular geneticist from the Steno Diabetes Center in Gentofte, Denmark, presented data showing that obese and “metabolically unhealthy” people tend to have the Bacteroides enterotype.

Arumugam says, “Even if these groups aren’t discrete, if there’s biological meaning to the separation, I’m happy.”

The issue will only be resolved with larger studies that include more populations, such as South Americans and Africans. “We’re at a very early stage of exploration,” says Knight. “In early maps of the United States, we see California as an island separated from the mainland. Likewise, we’re starting to get outlines of how microbial communities are distributed, but we don’t have the equivalent of GPS where we can see everything.”

Raes also wants to understand whether our gut microbes change over time. If one enterotype can change into another, this may explain why some communities fall between them. “We need more longitudinal studies to see if enterotypes are more like enterostates,” he says.

Nature doi:10.1038/nature.2012.10276
References

 

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